Re: [知識] 節食一定掉肌肉？

看板FITNESS作者elguapo (HPHT Synthesized)時間7年前 (2017/02/25 01:09)推噓26(29推 3噓 67→)

留言99則, 21人參與討論串2/4 (看更多)

為了端正風氣，在下決定花錢去看最原始的論文（版權因素只略顯示本文幾行，請版上大德見諒）： http://imgur.com/a/SGUiW ※ 引述《circlelee (非斷不可)》之銘言： : 節食一定掉肌肉？原則可能是如此，但節食再加上重訓呢？ : i'm sorry，答案可能不是如你想的那樣。來看下列的研究，看是不是肌肉掉光光。 : http://cristivlad.com/resistance-training-under-caloric- : restriction-enhances-muscle-maintenance/ : Resistance Training under Caloric Restriction Enhances Muscle Maintenance : 受試者 : 40 obese women, randomly assigned to four different groups : 四組 : 控制組 control (C) : 節食組 diet without exercise (DO) : 節食加重訓組 diet + weight training (DPE) : 重訓組 weight training without diet (EO) : 時間 : 8-week weight-loss study : 節食餐 : Subjects' baseline energy requirements were calculated at 2,200-2,500 kcals : per day and then reduced by 1,000 kcals for the calorie restricted groups. 圈李沒寫到的是： The specific dietary protocol was a modification of the dietary exchange program of the American Diabetes Association in which subjects choose foods from different categories. The nutritionally balanced diet consisted of 50% carbohydrate, 27% protein, and 23% fat and included a daily protein supplement. 而這個 protein supplement 是： Protein supplements were given to the two diet groups to ensure protein intake >=1.0 g/kg body wt. The protein supplement, taken with 8 oz (0.24 L) nonfat milk, supplied 25 g/d of high-quality protein (60% of recommended dietary allowance [RDA]) and ~50% of the RDA for vitamins A, B-6, B12, C, D, and E and three minerals: calcium, iron, and phosphorus. 您看看，這麼重要的敘述被圈李忽略？這麼大量（確保每日都有 >=1g/kg）的蛋白質以及必要營養素在支持著 DO 以及 DPE 兩組人... 如果沒有這個蛋白質的量以及營養素來實施低熱量攝取加重訓呢？ : 重訓菜單 : As for the exercising protocol, the subjects from EO and DPE had to do : resistance training 3 times a week. Each session included: : – bench press : – inverse leg press : – lateral pulldown : – biceps curls : – triceps extension : – calf raises : – leg extension : – hamstring curl : They had to do 3 sets of each exercise: the first 2 sets consisting of 10 : repetitions, while the last set required doing repetitions to failure. Once : the subjects were able to complete more than 12 repetitions in the third set, : resistance (load) had to be increased. I suspect they were shooting for : anaerobic training. : 結論 : 請看連結裡的圖示，有用紅筆圈起來 : 控制組什麼都沒啥變 : 節食組瘦了4-5kg，但也確掉了1kg肌肉 : 重訓組體重沒啥變，肌肉成長了1kg : 最精采的節食加重訓組呢？ : 體脂掉最多，但肌肉卻沒啥動，還稍微增加了一點點 : 也就是說跟節食組比，肌肉沒掉 : 跟重訓組比，卻減了很多脂肪，可以說同時結合了這兩組的優點 : 而且節食加重訓組的力量跟純重訓組也差不多，都提升了一些，比控制組跟節食組高直接說論文最後的結論： An important finding of this study is the lack of interaction between the diet and exercise treatments (Table 6). The data suggest that the order of presentation of the treatments would not greatly affect the end result. For example, one could reduce caloric intake for 8 wk and then resistance weight train for 8 wk and obtain the same results as found by dieting and exercising concurrently. Support for this position can be found in Tables 1, 3, and 4 where, in most cases, adding the DO and EO group changes yields a result very similar to the DPE group changes. 簡譯：飲食控制（低卡）與運動（重訓）無互動關係。您可以先飲食控制八週然後恢復正常飲食運動八週，所得的結果是與同時飲食控制加重訓相同。所以您也別急著開心，畢竟這個實驗只是為了證明飲食控制與運動兩者是獨立事件，那個先做那個後做，跟同時做的結果相同，但請別忘了，這個實驗在飲食控制方面非常嚴謹，尤其是低卡組有蛋白質及營養素的補充。 : 筆者最後也有提到 : Had these subjects have their dietary protocol optimized away from a : high-carb regimen, I suspect results would've been even more significant. : What I am eager to see is studies conducted on healthy lean adult subjects : following a well formulated low calorie high-fat (60%-70%), low protein : (15%-25%), very-low-carb (10-15%) ketogenic protocol (keto-adapted would be : even better) doing resistance weight training in comparison with other : significantly different protocols. : 似乎暗示生同或低碳飲食的效果會更不一樣。 : 有人認為我是節食加重訓，ok有這樣的研究，不掉肌肉有很意外嗎？這個實驗的對象是 40 位女性，身體密碼如下： Forty obese female subjects (mean ± SEM, weight = 75.1 ± 1.1 kg, percent fat = 35.9 ± 0.9%, height = 166.4 ± 1.4 cm, age = 32.9 ± 1.5 y). Vlad 君只是好奇如果實驗改成清瘦的成人使用低熱量高脂低蛋白非常低碳水的飲食加重訓會有什麼結果，不代表他有什麼奇特的暗示。 : 很有趣的是這段，筆者說..... : Caloric restriction is uncool. It usually leads to increased hunger, bad : mood, and cold limbs among others (not if you're keto-adapted). Plus, the : power of the supplement industry and bro-science were almost always dictating : the trend. If you don’t train 3-4 times a week 1-2 hours every session and : if you don’t consume a ton of protein, you will lose muscle and you will die : (please excuse my sarcasm). : 哈哈，真的滿好笑的。我不知道到底是誰笑誰，但看到一篇實驗摘要就高潮才令我想笑。 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 36.225.199.1 ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/FITNESS/M.1487956164.A.4ED.html

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