Re: [閒聊] Stonewall008 Jungle的評價

看板LoL作者hirdaramani (Hirdaramani)時間11年前 (2013/01/19 11:04)推噓12(12推 0噓 7→)

留言19則, 14人參與討論串5/8 (看更多)

http://ppt.cc/mDqL kayle Speed A+ - Not much to say here except that she just grinds down camps with just her E. It requires proper positioning so that the AoE takes full effect of course. She's fast throughout the game though she begins to drop off in speed if she doesn't build some early attack speed. Without her E her clearing is one of the worst. 速度A+ 用E打超爽需要找個好位置讓AOE發揮沒E吃屎吧 Resilience C - Kayle is relatively easy to shut down in the jungle. She tends to fall off just by herself if she doesn't get some influx of gold from ganking or dragons anyways. She's not a strong jungle duelist and she's very reliant on gold for any serious non-support builds. I constantly say that Kayle is not a strong duelist in the jungle but it's often refuted because people don't seem to understand the biggest difference in jungle duels than lane duels. In the jungle, the best junglers will abuse line of sight to no end. Characters with targeted abilities are a disadvantage due to that. Kayle is rather fragile early and is more akin to a "ranged" bruiser due to her reliance on her E. She relies on ranged to beat some bruisers but if she wants to fight them in the jungle - she'll often not be able to use her range. She'll either be dragged into a bush or ambushed. A character like Darius may lose to her in the lane, but in the jungle she will be forced to enter the bushes if she wants to fight him while characters like him (skillshots) can take shots at her even if she was the one hiding. 韌性C 容易被打爛需要＄＄吃裝他不是單挑王所以會一蹶不振注意：凱耳不是單挑王江狗單挑王和線上單挑王不同江狗單挑王最好是大男範圍指向草叢癡漢 KAYLE線上特猛但是因為在草叢之中你只有指定技能只會被一些單挑王玩死 Build B+ - Kayle has a multitude of builds from AP to support. She has builds that are relatively unique to her thanks to her hybrid nature. It is not easy to itemize any of those builds correctly from the jungle though. They all will suffer in some way including the support build. The support build will sacrifice the effectiveness of all her jungle aspects as a result of much weaker clearing. Still, she packs utility and that is valued in gold. Her ultimate is potentially priceless and it earns her points. In short, many builds but all suffer due to jungle depravation. 裝備B+ 可以AP到SUP 他的技能讓他想出皆可出了SUP裝有點沒效率吃裝吃錢大給他BONUS 很多樣但是感覺沒特別強化 Sustain C - Kayle is not a sustained jungler. She suffers in all its forms early on and then only recovers from one and pads the others. Her early mana and health can be rather atrocious making her very vulnerable. She's heavily reliant on her E to clear as well - combine that with poor mana and long cooldowns and you may have trouble. She is fast but needs items asap in order to maintain that strong speed otherwise it starts to fall off. While it is not a big issue that a damage champion should buy damage - it is an issue if she gets slapped around. Her mana improves later when she itemizes for it (regen) but her health doesn't. Luckily she is, as long as she's keeping up, able to kill most camps before they deal any considerable damage. 續戰C 續戰瘸 HPMP早期讓他脆弱開E吃但MANA少需要裝還好吃很快喔耶 Ganking B - Her ganking is rather straightforward if albeit still pretty mediocre. It's just a slow with strong damage. The fact that she's ranged (temporarily) gives her the advantage of being able to deal her damage quicker and safer. The problem though is that, at least early, she won't be able to kill anyone (unless she gets help) before her E runs out. They may be too far for her to chase now to melee. Her ganking improves with her ultimate as it makes turret diving safer albeit it helps her teammates dive better than it helps her (she's ranged after all). GANK B 普普通通痛+緩 E讓他遠距離但是通常你殺不死直到R給你塔殺能力 Dueling B - This has already been explained back in the resilience portion. I'll just add that at least she has some obscene damage that few other junglers can match. If she doesn't get herself trapped then she can turn the tide easily. 單挑B 上面有淫蕩輸出沒被抓可以逆轉 Invasion B - She's fast and can pop in and out. Not much to say about this. 入侵B 打超快好出來掰掰謝謝指正 M. Transition A - Her ultimate alone gives her powerful transition. Whether or not she contributes much after that depends on how well she did earlier. A well timed ultimate can win team fights albeit it doesn't stop any crowd control. If she's rolling in gold -she can carry. If she's not then at least she has her ultimate. 中期A 不管怎樣神奇R可以讓你當英雄滾雪球就是猛 L. Transition A - It's the same thing. The only thing I could possibly add is that Kayle's damage becomes obscene late game. 後期A 神奇R+風騷輸出 ---------- OLAF Speed S - Olaf is one of the fastest junglers in the game albeit he runs the risk of being easily murdered in his own jungle in order to maintain god speeds. He is so fast he even outpaces the respawn times of the camps. He can slow down a bit in order to manage his low health and it will not affect him too much. 速度S 當你承擔被打死的風險你就是最快江狗之一自己微調你的血量控制速度 Resilience B - Olaf is one of those bruisers that can itemize on a budget and go full tank and still deal considerable damage thanks to his abilities. This, combined with his fast farming, means that harassment is only a stalling factor against him. Sure it can stop him from ganking as effectively but he can farm up to be more useful in teamfights instead. Olaf will recover simply through farming and buying items to become tanky. 韌性B 可以全坦裝猛輸出的大男騷擾他想辦法讓他GG 但是他可以農出猛坦裝 Build B+ - As it was already stated, Olaf does have some high price builds but his jungle builds are all very effective budget builds that aren't out of the way for him to purchase. Most commonly used is the support/tank build which still deals considerable damage thanks to his E. Aura items have multiplying price tags therefore the jungle gold is being stretched out rather effectively. 裝備B+ SUP/TANK 靈氣好 Sustain B+ - Olaf is actually a very sustained character. It is true that his super speed is reliant on him jungling while half dead but that only applies to the early game. Later on his clearing becomes more reliant on his mana pool and cooldowns more than anything. As he levels up - all he needs to do is spam his Q and grind the camps down. He will have mana issues throughout but at least he is no slouch with his auto attacks. His health sustain is very powerful throughout the game (with his W) so that grants him more points. He loses points from his final score for his rocky start and his mana dependency. 續戰B+ 續戰特高初期半血你超快但容易死後期吃MANA+CDR QQQQQQQQQQQQQ MANA會有問題但是不大 WWWWWW讓你續戰超高 MANA和風險扣你一點分 Ganking C+ - Olaf's ganking is always something for contention. Some players, including pros, will say his ganking is very strong but when you compare it to other junglers you can see that it is much weaker. He packs a lot of damage in his ganks and the slow is very strong especially if you chain it. The problem is that, at long range, it is easy to dodge by simply walking erratically. To add to that, if you miss the first axe then the gank will go to hell rather quickly. It's one of those type of ganks that "if it works there is a high chance of killing the target but it's more likely to fail" type of ganks. GANK C+ 神Q決定是你是不是神手歐拉夫 Q失敗就GG連Q就猛戰吧 approach an Olaf unless you're willing to die. Olaf is arguably the strongest jungle duelist in the game. He only loses a few points because he's often in a negative position while jungling (he's low on health) so he doesn't get to exploit this often unless he's the one doing the hunting which puts him at a disadvantage of being in enemy territory. Still, he'll pretty much slaughter anyone in a straight up fight and chase them down in a kill. 單挑S 不要和殘血歐拉夫單挑想自殺再去太猛了 Invasion A+ - Combine his ungodly speed with his godly dueling and you have a powerful invader. He loses points because, again, he's at a disadvantage mana wise and health wise often and is basically exposing himself. Still, Olaf takes what he wants. 入侵A+ 吃超快單挑猛入侵爽 just how his builds work and that alone gives him almost unrivaled transition strength. He's fighter, not just a tank, that can build pure defensive/utility items and still destroy people. His ultimate also gives him more defensive capabilities including the priceless Freddie Mercury buff (can't be stopped). Very few other junglers have gold efficiency comparable to Olaf or could even farm as well as him. Combine those two traits and this beast comes to mid game being able to provide damage, tankiness and utility for his team. 中期A 全坦裝一樣猛輸出＄效率最大+可以農到地老天荒全能工具歐拉夫 L. Transition A+ - The same as before except Olaf reaches a point where it takes a full teams focus to take him down before he devours someone. If they focus him then Olaf's carry can finish them. If not then Olaf takes out their carry. That or Olaf can just be a very powerful bodyguard/peeler for his own carry. 後期A+ 打歐拉夫讓他CARRY收頭或是打CARRY讓歐拉夫收頭選一個 --------------------- Fiddlesticks Speed C+ - Fiddlesticks is slow. His speed did improve from season 2 but it is still slow. What is frustrating about his clearing is that his Dark Wind can go full stupid and bounce randomly and to the wrong targets. At least, thanks to season 3, his clearing became steady as the game goes on. 速度C+ 慢神奇的E吃人品又亂打 Resilience B - At least all he needs is to rank up his W in order to jungle. He can even rank it up to level 3 and then rely on his dark wind to take out camps and go a supportish build. The guy is a CC bot and isn't dangerously reliant on blue like many make him out to be - outside of his initial clearing first. Constant harassment will make his jungle phase hell but he'll bounce back eventually. Take his blue buff to slow him down considerably and constantly harass him to keep him down - just remember it will not knock him out of the game. 韌性B W點到3靠E可以吃可以出SUP型當個CC製造機偷他藍你可以壓榨他但是他不會被你踢出遊戲的 Build B - Fiddlesticks has some nifty build choices. He can go support or AP (though his farming is awful) but it is preferable for him (at least as a jungler) to go some form of utility AP. Purchasing offensive auras like Shurelias and Abyssal help plenty and they're very affordable on a jungle budget. Unless he gets fed, Fiddlesticks will not farm enough to afford his best builds. This is what detracts points from him - his jungling is gimped item wise and is carried by his kit. 裝備B 可以當SUP或AP 最好出點AP 皇冠或深淵很棒得靈氣除非對面腦殘不然你無法出神裝 Sustain C - We all know the answer to this. The guy is incredibly sustained health wise but his mana just destroys him. His speed maintains an average pace but it drops to a halt if his mana runs out. Mana issues everywhere that can only be evened out to keep an average pace instead of a godlike one. 續戰C 吃MP 0分 Ganking A/S - The guy has a ranged hard CC - that's instantly a huge booster for ganking. He also has a ranged silence that, if conditions are met, can silence a target multiple times. They aren't that strong at rank 1 but still. He is slow though so chasing a target is rather difficult for him and he also severely lacks damage unless he was able to position himself well during the gank for his drain. His ultimate ramps up the ganking godliness by giving him devastating AoE damage and a blink. It pretty much helps him initiate blink ganks with devastating damage. The only issue comes that wards devastate his ability to gank more than plenty of other champions because of his poor speed and his ultimate's channeling time. GANK A/S 遠CC+遠沉默+吸血天時地利可以沉默兩次走太慢追不上黑暗大可以嚇死人缺點是走慢+吟唱時間 Dueling S* - Fiddlestick's dueling is rather unique in that his match ups are potentially the best across the board - when defending. Unless you catch him completely off guard and afk, you probably won't kill Fiddlesticks. He will fear you, drain you then silence you as you try to run and just jab at you. He likely won't kill you and you definitely won't kill him. It's the same situation if he invades you. You kind of just ignore him. If he looks for a fight in your jungle then at the very most your teammate can come in and help you murder him seeing as he's easy to kill. But 1v1 is just dumb. Some junglers can outdamage his drain (Mundo) but the trade off is often not worth it seeing as it will take too long. It's like if you were a giant school bully that you were picking on a nerd. Sure you can easily take on the nerd but the nerd vomits on you with every punch you take at him. You can eventually kick his ass but now you're covered in vomit. Is it worth it? 單挑S* 神奇的草人當他防守可以嚇你吸你血在沉默你你打不死他他也打不死你兩個江狗大眼看小眼他入侵也一樣只好找你的隊友來殺爛他有些高傷害可以壓制他吸血但是沒啥效率 Invasion C+ - Too much reliance on his mana and cooldowns to be a proper invader. On the other hand he is really strong at taking out big camps. It's just too risky for him to do but technically doable. 入侵C+ MANA/CDR問題有風險硬要入侵吃大怪就好 M. Transition A - Fiddlestick's mid game transition is definitely his best. He's a CC bot and he's a jungler that can poke with his incredible bouncing silence of doom. His base values are definitely strong as well so they are able to carry his jungle budget ass. In short, strong AoE damage, tons of CC and easy early itemization. 中期A 中期是他高潮的時候 CC 產生機 +能POKE的江狗+高基礎傷害強AOE 猛CC 簡單裝備猛死惹 L. Transition B - His damage starts to fall off here - either that or his survivability. He can pack utility sure but even that starts being less effective. Unlike other CC bots - Fiddlesticks tends to drop easier as late game rolls around simply because he won't be able to outdrain the damage or he'll just get cced and chewed out. His late game transition is made better if there is another tank/CC bot in the team though. Having him be your only one pretty much guarantees he'll be slaughtered. 後期B 傷害和生存力悲劇和其他CC機比起來悲劇多了因為你吸血此時像狗屎跟在坦後面打一波 ----------- 夜曲 Speed A - He's fast and he maintains it even when building pseudo-tanky. It does require him abusing his Q like no tomorrow but it's not a big deal. 速度A 就算是大男裝也很快 QQQQ Resilience B - If it wasn't for his level 6 ganking, Nocturne's resilience would be lower. He's surprisingly easy to murder in his own jungle if jumped though he'll absolutely cut down anyone who screws up. He is dependent on mana early and, if mana screwed, will have all his other aspects crumble before him. In short, his early jungling is pretty flimsy but it stabilizes later. Hitting him early is recommended to keep him down. His ultimate will allow him to gank later though and could return him into the game. 韌性B 在他自己家很強吃MANA 前期江狗不穩想辦法揍他上六讓他回到遊戲 Build A - This is a place where Nocturne exceeds. He has a multitude of builds from support/tank, to straight out assassin, to bruiser and so on. He is able to take hybrid items and make good use of them. The best way to summarize this - he has tons of build options, both fed builds and economic builds, and can easily jump between builds. He can pad any deficiencies of his own team while still dealing respectable damage throughout with good use of his Q. 裝備A SUP/TANK + 刺客 + 大男全方位工具出裝有Q給他額外傷害肥吱吱出裝+乞丐出裝都有用多功能 Sustain B - Nocturne loses points for his first clear. I already made a mention of that. Later on though he starts tearing camps to pieces before they can do any considerable damage to him (which he'll heal anyways) and his mana issues won't be as crippling. He'll maintain a strong pace and go about his day. 續戰B 第一輪扣分之後可以吸血+MANA不是問題猛 Ganking A/S+ - Nocturne's ganking is his best strength. It's strong early as his combines high damage with a hard CC albeit his high damage comes at the cost of potentially weird use of his gap closer and his hard CC can be unreliable. Anyways, once he gains his ultimate he is able to completely ignore most conventional ward spots by using his long range gap closer. It can be predicted and, if not followed up properly, can be disastrous but it still guarantees two things. It guarantees that the target will haul ass to avoid being killed and, as long as Nocturne hasn't ganked, the enemy will not be as aggressive unless they know Nocturne isn't anywhere near them. GANK A/S+ 前期高傷害+CC猛上六之後無視眼睛猛可能會被隊友賣掉但是給對面恐懼+上你小全球流壓力 Dueling B+ - Nocturne isn't the best of the jungle duelists though he admittedly can kill a lot of them. His abilities aren't reliable and that's why he has issues with some opponents. If he ambushes someone though he'll likely tear them to pieces. Nocturne duels are pretty much about who jumps who first. 單挑B+ 單挑不是特猛埋伏棒棒通常夜曲單挑要考慮誰先手 Invasion A - He's fast and clears camps without using anything but his Q and auto attacks. This progressively gets stronger and his fear is actually pretty useful for escaping (along with his shield). Just fear someone and they'll either stop attacking/using abilities in preparation for the fear or just give up. If they continue chasing - you've likely covered enough distance with your Q that they'll accomplish nothing. 入侵A Q+A 就夠快了 QWE逃跑棒棒 M. Transition B - Now I don't actually see Nocturne as being a character that transitions well unless he goes support/tank build but even then his abilities strongly support an assassin role instead. I figure Nocturne is more of a champion that "resets" fights in that during a fight he'll use his ultimate and target the mvp and go all out. During this instance the enemy team either responds by turning on him or the mvp escapes. Either way the fight has been disrupted because of his maneuver and your team might be able to win the fight either because they focused a tanky character (if he went tank) or because the mvp is either occupied or dead. Nocturne's ability to do this depends on how well he farmed. Admittedly he can farm well and his builds can be very cheap - but even then his purpose is jihad style engagement that is heavily dependant on his team. 中期B SUP坦是中期最棒夜曲是個會戰重製機利用你的R飛進去破陣給隊友機會想辦法換掉MVP或者坦下足夠傷害便宜裝就夠猛但是還是要吃隊友能否跟上你的關燈 L. Transition B+ - Same exact thing except now he has more survivability and probably damage. He's probably easier to kill when fully focused but that would be something you'd want in most cases anyways. 後期B+ 和中期相同多了點傷害和生存容易英勇犧牲不過這也是你能做的 ---------- Diana Speed A+ - Diana is a very fast champion throughout and becomes much faster as the game progresses even with a light item build. Her aoe damage is basically insane. 速度A+ 好快又會更快北爛AOE Resilience B - Diana combines the aspects of a bruiser and an AP character quite nicely. She isn't as dependent on mana as other mana junglers are and her shield basically keeps her from ever dying. Her first clear is mana hungry though so that's a spot where she can be hit. Her dueling is also garbage so constant harassment and beat downs can crush her. Still, she can farm well and her builds are so ungodly efficient that she's hard to keep down forever. 韌性B 大男AP 不甚吃MANA+盾第一輪MANA有問題單挑廢物持續騷擾打爛他但是他可以用速度農出經濟時會裝備別想把他踢出遊戲 Build A+ - Diana has a multitude of builds and can itemize utility or straight out damage. Both builds are very effective on her and can be bought with a jungler's budget. She is rather tough to kill with just a light amount of survivability so hybrid items are amazing on her. Living shadows is perhaps her best item as a jungler as it combines both survivability with offense and grants her more utility. Items with hybrid stats and utility are her best bet as a jungler and those always prove the most cost effective. Combine that with her excellent farming and you have a very efficient jungler. 裝備A+ 工具人或者猛傷害他可以出一大堆經濟實惠裝備混合出裝讓他活久一點雙影斗篷是最棒選擇 Sustain A - Aside from her first clear, she will rarely present any mana issues (Even then she can still jungle thanks to her passive), her shield will prevent all the damage she'd receive and her pace only improves. She is the model of jungle efficiency. 續戰A 被動太猛囉盾也IMBA 江狗模範生 Ganking C/B - Her early ganking is very weak as she has no real crowd control aside from a small melee ranged pull/slow and her damage isn't too reliable early. Once she obtains her ultimate, her ganking becomes stronger but ultimately either difficult or reliant on her teammates. GANK C/B 前期很爛傷害不高抓不夠猛有R棒棒但是吃隊友 Initiation Ganks - Her ultimate can be used to quickly close the gap and then lock a target down with her short range cc. The speed and range of her ultimate allows her to easily grab a target almost before they react but her damage takes a huge hit from this. She will not be refreshing her ultimate and thus her damage drops off considerably - this means she relies on her teammate to pick up the kill. She just sets it up rather easily for them. 起手型GANK R出去抓回來技能打完了沒傷害只能等隊友 Damage Ganks - These types of ganks tend to be more difficult to do as she needs to hit her Q first somehow before she initiates the gank. It's basically Diana trying to deal as much damage by refreshing her ultimate. 傷害型GANK 比較困難 Q到人在GANK開戰之前刷新R然後打出高傷害 Dueling C - Diana is a terrible duelist vs other junglers. To put it simply - they're usually tanky and her early damage is terrible. She just gets overwhelmed. 單挑C 單挑廢物別人都比較坦然後你傷害跟屎一樣 Invasion B+ - She's got speed and super sustain. She's at terrible duelist so she has to look out for that. She's also burning all her spells in order to jungle so there is that too. 入侵B+ 神速度高續戰爛單挑放技能吃江狗所以給你B+ M. Transition B+ - Her mid game is great for a jungler. She can pack a considerable amount of utility and survivability. However, it has to be made clear that jungling Diana is more akin to a bruiser than an AP assassin when jungling. Even if she builds damage she will be building hybrid pieces instead. That means her overall damage potential isn't there and she's more of an AP Nocturne instead. 中期B+ 中期棒棒但是注意江狗戴安娜通常是偏大男傷害不一定足夠想成AP NOC吧 L. Transition B - Same as mid game except the utility items are starting to wear off and her damage may be suffering due to the lack of "true" AP items. Still it's rather strong compared to a lot of junglers. She becomes an initiator at this point especially if she bought herself a Randuin's Omen. 後期B 缺少真正AP裝讓他不是很棒但是還是個不錯的江狗買個藍盾開戰吧 --------- 隨便亂翻歡迎推文改進指教細節請看原文 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 61.57.75.128 ※ 編輯: hirdaramani 來自: 61.57.75.128 (01/19 11:05)

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