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作者 tim1112 在 PTT [ SAN ] 看板的留言(推文), 共558則
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6F推: 我是覺得丕其實只是想要一個名目對兄弟放下屠刀,所以出04/24 09:03
7F→: 了個植八成能過的關卡。04/24 09:03
5F推: 關羽是後世拿來拜的神,怎麼可能人氣低04/16 18:50
8F推: 顏良死相當於被雷打中,純運氣吧。誰知道敵軍會出一個根08/13 12:00
9F→: 本攔不住的神將?08/13 12:00
10F→: 至於袁紹偏郭逢審。這幾個之前也立過功,他們計策沒實際08/13 12:03
11F→: 檢驗過也未必錯。(同樣採納田沮的也不見得就會贏)08/13 12:03
25F推: 刺殺完之後紹將也莫之能禦啊08/14 14:13
26F推: 打掉白馬義從那次也可能是麴義的兵比較有料(兵皆驍銳)08/14 14:18
27F→: ,他死後袁紹軍就沒那麼強的兵了。(前以西山陸梁,出兵08/14 14:18
28F→: 平討,會麴義餘殘,畏誅逃命,故遂住大軍,分兵撲盪,此08/14 14:18
29F→: 兵孤之前行,乃界橋搴旗拔壘,先登制敵者也。)08/14 14:18
9F推: 然後袁紹諸子(含高幹)的個人能力和勢力還算滿平均的,08/06 19:46
10F→: 都還不錯但也沒誰特別屌。所以變成人人都有機會,那底下08/06 19:46
11F→: 的部眾各自選邊也不稀奇。08/06 19:46
12F→: (所以也沒辦法都只聽一邊的)08/06 19:47
48F→: 是說郭圖辛評站袁譚 審配逢紀挺袁尚 那田沮兩人有史料08/07 19:25
49F→: 顯示他們曾經支持過哪一位公子嗎08/07 19:25
17F推: 王平是有先跟馬謖提醒 所以至少馬謖是有"上山存在風險"的04/23 18:27
18F→: 認知才對 他堅持上去應該是有某種考量 但極有可能是眼高04/23 18:28
19F→: 手低 細部操作太糟 才會有"舉措煩擾" 然後又被"絶其汲道"04/23 18:29
19F推: 「謖舍水上山,舉措煩擾……」04/19 17:31
20F→: 有沒有想過其實不是魏軍太強,而是馬謖太弱?04/19 17:31
21F推: 從袁紹時代算過去,歷年跟張郃交戰的對手,也沒有每個都04/19 17:33
22F→: 被秒殺。04/19 17:33
59F推: 馬知道但他未必會相信王平所說。04/22 17:03
60F→: 就像『「馬謖言過其實,不可大用,君其察之!」亮猶謂不04/22 17:03
61F→: 然,以謖為參軍,每引見談論,自晝達夜。』04/22 17:03
62F→: 諸葛亮不也沒信劉備04/22 17:03
63F→: 馬謖當然知道士兵需要喝水,但他也若對自己保持水源暢通04/22 17:06
64F→: 的能力有信心,還是有上山可能。04/22 17:06
29F推: 你把王平想得太淺了 興勢之戰魏國派十萬人來攻 此時諸葛04/18 05:53
30F→: 亮已死 王平還不是能擋下來04/18 05:53
5F推: 一直講將在外君命有所不受的,根本是想造反吧。馬謖要保03/27 10:05
6F→: 命肯定也不敢講這種話。03/27 10:05
7F→: 不聽君命(劉or諸葛=》蜀軍戰敗。大可懷疑馬謖是魏軍臥03/27 10:06
8F→: 底,誅全族都不為過了。03/27 10:06
10F→: (還讓自軍沒水喝,臨陣逃走,這不叫叛賊什麼叫叛賊?)03/27 10:15
21F推: 張郃只是單純運氣不好吧 再打一次他也不一定同樣中箭03/27 20:05
22F→: 追擊容易戰敗 但戰敗不一定直接跟死亡劃上等號03/27 20:06
3F推: 王平後來守山下就擋張了,他領的還是副軍。03/22 07:22
4F→: 王能辦到馬沒理由不行03/22 07:22
55F推: 如果王平照丞相的戰術指南走也被打爆,那還可以推給丞相03/22 17:45
56F→: ,問題就王平沒被打爆。03/22 17:45
57F推: 太多自以為天才的蠢蛋把將在外君命有所不受當藉口,馬顯03/22 17:49
58F→: 然也是其中之一。03/22 17:49
59F推: 要玩這套就是祈禱自己真能贏,不然就是等著被清算。03/22 17:51
72F推: 因為快渴死了是要衝個雕03/22 22:22
73F→: 他要是能在爬山之餘作好包含水源在內所有物資的補給那也03/22 22:24
74F→: 還可以說臨機應變有道理 連基本生存要件都確保不了是要03/22 22:25
75F→: 怎麼勢如破竹03/22 22:25
76F→: 或者說不要主軍都上山而是以別動隊的規模安排一支上去當03/22 22:29
77F→: 奇兵 應該都不會死得那麼慘03/22 22:29
82F→: 不按上司指示辦事 不聽有經驗的部下勸戒 沒有本事實踐自03/22 23:11
83F→: 己的計畫 沒有勇氣面對自己出的包而逃走 讓部下同僚幫他03/22 23:12
84F→: 擦屁股 以上這幾點加起來實在找不出饒他一命的理由03/22 23:12
85F→: 已經不是什麼張郃是名將或者張郃兵比較多這些藉口可以開03/22 23:14
86F→: 脫了 馬謖自身在街亭就是一脫拉庫的雷點03/22 23:15
95F推: 我覺得真的不要拿什麼將在外君命有所不受的幹話來找藉口03/23 08:50
96F→: 。馬謖是韓信吳起這種趴數的將領嗎?還是北伐總指揮?如03/23 08:50
97F→: 果都不是,那他憑什麼不按指示辦事?03/23 08:50
98F→: 他不聽指示,那他有本事實踐自己的計劃嗎?沒有。他有擔03/23 08:51
99F→: 當承受失敗嗎?沒有。03/23 08:51
100F→: 他連力戰而亡這種最低限度的要求都辦不到了。03/23 08:52
128F推: 王平更後面還有三萬擋十萬的成就,防禦戰應該算很有料。03/23 20:31
3F推: 王平後來守山下就擋張了,他領的還是副軍。03/22 07:22
4F→: 王能辦到馬沒理由不行03/22 07:22
55F推: 如果王平照丞相的戰術指南走也被打爆,那還可以推給丞相03/22 17:45
56F→: ,問題就王平沒被打爆。03/22 17:45
57F推: 太多自以為天才的蠢蛋把將在外君命有所不受當藉口,馬顯03/22 17:49
58F→: 然也是其中之一。03/22 17:49
59F推: 要玩這套就是祈禱自己真能贏,不然就是等著被清算。03/22 17:51
72F推: 因為快渴死了是要衝個雕03/22 22:22
73F→: 他要是能在爬山之餘作好包含水源在內所有物資的補給那也03/22 22:24
74F→: 還可以說臨機應變有道理 連基本生存要件都確保不了是要03/22 22:25
75F→: 怎麼勢如破竹03/22 22:25
76F→: 或者說不要主軍都上山而是以別動隊的規模安排一支上去當03/22 22:29
77F→: 奇兵 應該都不會死得那麼慘03/22 22:29
82F→: 不按上司指示辦事 不聽有經驗的部下勸戒 沒有本事實踐自03/22 23:11
83F→: 己的計畫 沒有勇氣面對自己出的包而逃走 讓部下同僚幫他03/22 23:12
84F→: 擦屁股 以上這幾點加起來實在找不出饒他一命的理由03/22 23:12
85F→: 已經不是什麼張郃是名將或者張郃兵比較多這些藉口可以開03/22 23:14
86F→: 脫了 馬謖自身在街亭就是一脫拉庫的雷點03/22 23:15