Re: [新聞] TotalBiscuit跟Crank的聲明

看板StarCraft作者 (La Jolla)時間11年前 (2012/10/23 16:12), 編輯推噓118(119推 1噓 283→)
留言403則, 65人參與, 最新討論串14/21 (看更多)
http://esfiworld.com/news/jessica-responds-mma-apologize-then-i-will-forget-everything-and-forgive-you http://tinyurl.com/9lvvcnm 以下是包嫂對MMA訪談的回應 ※ 引述《claus (La Jolla)》之銘言： : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376041&currentpage=203 : http://tinyurl.com/9q9yvbu : TIG: jessica revealed the state of slayers in the past interview. Have you : seen it yet? : 看過包嫂之前的訪談了嘛？ : Mma: yes, however there are a lot of distortions in that article. But this : does not mean that the players are right and Jessica is wrong. I just wish : that people would look at this objectively and not just from one point of : view. : 看過了。訪談裡很多事情不太正確，但這不代表選手們是對的而包嫂是錯的。我只是 : 希望人們客觀看事情而不是只憑一面之詞 : TIG: you have a contract with slayers until November 6th. Can you explain us : the contract signing process? : 你跟SlayerS合約到11/6，對吧？ : Mma: before signing the contract, Jessica said that she made it similar to a : celebrity (actors/actresses) contract. At first, she told us that the only : way to get a sponsor was to let the potential sponsors know that ‘we have : play x, y and z’. So kimdongju (ganzi), kimsangjun (puzzle), kimdongwon : (ryung), yangjunshik (Alicia) along with myself signed the contract. As : mentioned before from Jessica, it was purely for the purpose of securing a : sponsor and she made us at ease with that statement, and the contract was : signed. Some players that signed did not even bother to read the contract and : trusted Jessica’s words. : 簽約前包嫂有說他把合約弄得像演藝人員的合約。他告訴我們為了要得到贊助，要讓 : 贊助知道我們會有哪些選手。所以Ganzi Puzzle Ryung Alicia 和我都有簽約。有人 : 甚是沒看就簽了 Q: MMA first talked about how the contract was done based on an entertainer's contract. A: Yes it was. The only place where professional player contracts exist is KeSPA. But I could not obtain any information on contract formats or contexts. I was involved in many components of entertainment for players such as interviews and match preparations, so I used a commonly used contract in the entertainment industry as a reference. Agents for entertainers or sports professionals exist, so I proceeded [with the contract] with this in mind. That doesn't mean I used everything in the sample contract, as I only used it for profit sharing and category order. There is no legal issue at all. In the entertainment industry, people have been talking about the so-called 'slavery contract' issue a lot. When I asked my manager about it, he said the contract is called a 'slavery contract' if the contract period is excessively long, like five to 10 years, while profit sharing ratio is fewer than 5:5 in favor of the manager. So when I signed contracts with five players, I put in a 9:1 ratio for prizes under one million Won (Approx. 905 USD) and 8:2 for over two million Won. 唯一有職業合約的事KESPA，但我沒門道取得合約內容，但由於我本身在演藝界，對訪談 或是比賽準備還蠻有經驗，所以用了演藝界常用的合約當範本。我只用了其中的收入抽成 以及項目順序。沒什麼法律問題。在演藝界，他們會稱這種合約為奴隸合約，是當合約 超過5年以上，或是經紀人抽成超過五成。所以當我跟五位隊員簽約的時候，抽成比例是 1百萬韓元以下抽一成，2百萬以上抽兩成。 : TIG: what was the incident involving manager J? : J經理又是怎麼一回事 : Mma: I think there needs to be an explanation about manager J. manager J was : an employee of corporation R, who were sponsors of Slayers. At first, he : dropped by the team house to say hello now and then, but his visits increased : in frequency and the guys at the team house got friendly with him. He was : similar to us in age and was pretty easy to talk to, so he was popular with : the younger guys as well. Boxer liked soccer so we played it a lot within the : team. Manager J started playing with us after a while and he was pretty good, : so he was our team’s ace (for soccer). When we bought soccer jerseys as a : team, we even bought one for him as well. : But a few months later, manager J left his company. Since he was jobless, he : came to our team house more often and Jessica saw fit to give him access to : the team’s facebook and twitter account since he was fluent in English and : german. He had a charming personality, so after time he eventually became in : charge of the foreign business, which was previously Cella’s work. : At the same time, Jessica said not to worry or even to ask about the : sponsors. We were contracted with corporation R at the time when we got to : know manager J, so jessica’s statement of the 2 month thing is wrong (not : sure what he’s referring to here). The incident started at this time. : J本來是R企業的員工，而R企業又是我們的贊助商。一開始他只是來我們宿舍跟我們 : 打招呼，後來次數越來越頻繁，而我們也跟他越來越熟。他跟我們年紀相似而且很 : 健談，所以還蠻受歡迎的。包哥愛踢足球，而J足球也很厲害，所以他有跟我們一起踢 : ，甚至還是我們的王牌。買足球隊服的時候還甚至幫他買。 : 幾個月後，J離職了，所以更常來我們這裡。包嫂覺得可以讓他管FB和推特，逐漸的 : 他開始負責了國外業務。同時，包嫂說不用擔心贊助。在我們剛認識J的時候R已經 : 跟我們簽約了，所以包嫂說的兩個月的事情（不知道是什麼事情）是錯的。所有的 : 一切都從這時開始。 : TIG: could you explain more about this incident : Mma: it was right before my code s match versus alive (feb, 15th, 2012). I : heard something shocking from manager J that Jessica was forwarding my : potential personal sponsor to boxer. I couldn’t believe it. I got confused : but I had no one talk to. My mind was heavily burdened for the weeks : afterwards : After much turmoil, I confessed to crank about my feelings. We talked a lot. : Crank was also sad because he couldn’t do anything for me, so it was hard on : him as well. As this went on, I got more stressed and even thought of : quitting the game. If I said this to Jessica, I thought manager J would get : the blame too so I did not talk. : After, my performance fell and I just focused on the game more since there : was nothing I could do about it. Crank suggested that I go talk to boxer as : he would know more from a player’s viewpoint. So I talked to boxer. Boxer : knew this was dangerous waters so he checked around for a few days and told : me that there was nothing of that nature (potential personal sponsor) going : on. : 2012 2月中的時候，J跟我說包嫂要把我可能的個人贊助轉給包哥。我無法相信，超困惑， : 但沒有人可以談這件事情。那幾個禮拜我思緒超沈重的。之後我跟Crank講了我的感受 : ，我們聊了很多。Crank因為他沒什麼能幫我的而很難過。之後我甚至想退休。如果我跟 : 包嫂講，我覺得J會被責怪所以我沒講。之後我的表現下滑了，所以我選擇專注在比賽上 : ，反正我也不能做什麼。Crank建議去找包哥談，所以我去找包哥。包哥知道事態的嚴重 : 所以他去查證了幾天，後來說沒有什麼個人贊助的事情 : Jessica did not release any details about our sponsors so I had no choice but : to trust manager J regarding this matter because he was a former employee of : corporation R. at the same time, I lost faith in Jessica because of how she : treated the players and the arguments she picked with other players (on other : teams). : As the manager J incident was wrapping up, boxer and Jessica gathered all the : players and said ‘if there is anything we did wrong, it was letting manager : J come into the team house, so let’s try harder and get the team house : atmosphere up again’. However, it was already too late. There was no way to : turn back the situation because the players were already too deeply wounded. : In this environment, I lived at the team house for a few months. Crank saw : the seriousness of this situation and appealed individually to boxer and : Jessica, but nothing changed. In contrast, Jessica was saying things like ‘ : the team is like this because of mma’ and pointing the blame towards me. : Then the contract annulment thing blew up. : 包嫂沒有告知我們任何有關贊助商的細節，所以我沒有選擇只能去相信曾經是R企業 : 員工的J。同時，在看到包嫂怎麼對隊友以及和其他隊的人吵架情形之後，我也對包 : 嫂失去信心。在J經理事件即將處理完的時候，包哥包嫂聚集大家說「如果我們有做錯 : 什麼，那就是讓J近來，讓我們更加努力讓氣氛回來吧」但已經太晚了，因為隊員們 : 都已經受傷太深了。 : 我在宿舍這種環境下住了幾個月。Crank看到事情的嚴重性而直接去找包哥包嫂反應 : ，但什麼都沒改變。相對的，包嫂都說是因為我而造成的，都在怪我。後來取消合約 : 的事情發生了 Q: On the previous interview, you said that you knew manager J for only two months. Why did you say it like that? A: I said two months because that was the period where he lived with us after quitting company R. I knew manager J when he was in company R and he even went to the GSL finals last year with our uniform on, so how could I not remember him? 兩個月是指J經理從R社離職之後來和我們住的兩個月。我之前就認識他了 Q: MMA said that he heard from manager J about the team's sponsorship and your notice to him to stop caring about sponsorship. A: Sponsorship is something that players should not worry about. This is the management side. Back then we had sponsorships with Intel and Razer but they were individual sponsorships to BoxeR. If there was an individual sponsorship offer to specific player, that player indeed has a right to know about it and he/she should ask about it as well. But no such situation came to me so I don't understand why he wanted to know about it. 贊助的事情隊員無須煩惱，那是管理階層該煩惱的事情。之前我們Inter和Razor的贊助 都是包哥的個人贊助。如果有給特定人的個人贊助，那個人的確有權利知道也應該要詢 問，但並沒有這類事情發生，所以我不清楚他為什麼要問這個 Q: What do you think of his comment that the individual sponsorship offer going to BoxeR instead? A: I definitely said that is not true. MMA indeed asked BoxeR about it and BoxeR then asked me. I was actually very sad when BoxeR asked me back then. I said, 'I know your [BoxeR] personality and why would I not tell you this.' What I later found out was that company N and company S offered sponsorships for MMA but they went to BoxeR instead. Sponsorship matters were dealt with by manager J, so I directly contacted related parties in those companies to confirm. However, they didn't even know who manager J was. Do other StarCraft 2 teams' players have the same questions and do managers answer them? I really do not understand this issue. MMA的確有問包哥關於個人贊助的事情，包哥接著問我。包哥問我的時候其實我很傷心 ，我說「我知道你的個性，所以如果真的這樣我會不跟你講嗎？」後來我才得知N和S 器各本來都有計畫提供贊助給MMA，但後來都選擇了包哥。那時贊助的事情都是J負責的 ，所以我直接去問N和S社負責的人，但他們甚至連J是誰都不知道。我對這爭議真的不 太清楚 Q: In your previous interview, you said you did not receive any money from the players. But MMA revealed his bank account history to show that there were deposits [to your account]. A: When I said I did not receive any money, I meant as in result. Players signed the contracts on November of last year and I had certain promises to keep to players. I did what was told in the contracts. Players soon received prizes after contractual terms began. But why didn't they deposit the money until February next year? I did indeed tell them to deposit the money. But it was only to teach them about the importance of the contract. At some point in February, I ordered coach Hong to 'tell contracted players to deposit portion of their prizes according to the contract.' About 10 million Won (Approx. 9,050 USD) was deposited. I then gathered the players and explained how this money will be used. I said, 'This money will not be used on me, but rather used on coaching staffs Ryu, Hong, and J manager's salaries, and the rest will be used on benefits for players.' The benefits here are better soccer balls, winter uniforms. and badminton gear for players who didn’t like to play soccer. I also used the money on taxi fees whenever I was unable to transport players. I even joked that 'You can sue me if I used it for my own.' 當我說我沒拿到錢時，我是結果論。合約是去年十一月簽的，我也有承諾要遵守。合約 裡我該做的都做了。簽合約之後隊員開始拿到比賽獎金，但為什麼他們直到隔年二月才 依照合約匯錢呢？我的確有告訴他們要匯錢，但也是為了讓他們知道合約的重要性。二 月的某個時候，我要洪教練跟有合約的隊員說要依據合約匯錢。大約9000美金匯進來了 。我召集了隊員們並且解釋了這些錢會怎麼運用。我說「這些錢不會用在我身上，但會 用在龍教練洪教練還有J的薪水上。剩下會是用在隊員福利上。」福利包括好一點的足球 ，冬天制服，不踢足球的隊員則買羽毛球用具。也會用在我沒辦法載球員時的計程車費 。我甚至開玩笑說「如果我花在我身上你們可以去告我」 Q: What are your thoughts on MMA's comment that contracts were supposedly only for sending documents for sponsors? A: Not true. I never said it won't be fulfilled. In the end of the last year, not only us but every team was in need of signing contracts with their players. According to MMA's claim, when I asked to deposit the portion of the money, shouldn't he raise an objection? When I didn't say anything and just waited, no deposits were made. I thought players, after receiving their prizes, would ask a question or deposit the money as written in the contract, but they never did. I thought they may not go to deposit any time soon, so I requested such an order. Truthfully, deposits or no deposits, there was no problem with the management. Players received their prizes directly and I even paid for player's taxes. I felt very irate actually. Even though these players were young, they seemed like they had complete lack of integrity for contracts. Once they are in contracts, they are professional players. Not amateurs. I spent hundreds of millions of Won for managing the team but I did not try to recoup the money from this. Just think about it. How much can it be for accumulating portion of their total prizes? 跟MMA講的不一樣，簽合約不是只是為了贊助商。去年底，不只我們但每個戰隊都有 簽合約的需求了。根據MMA的說法，當我要求他匯款抽成時，不是應該提出異議嗎？ 當我什麼都沒提的時候，沒有人會錢。我以為隊員在拿到獎金之後，會去問如何依照 合約上繳抽成的部分，但沒人問。我以為他們短時間內都不會匯錢，所以我提出匯錢 的要求。 說實話，有沒有匯錢，都不是管理階層有問題。隊員是直接拿到獎金，我甚至還幫他 們付稅。我其實很生氣，雖然他們很年輕，但他們完全缺乏尊重合約的自律性。我在 戰隊上花了上億韓元且從來沒想要有所回收。自己想想，光靠抽成是可以拿多少？ Q: He also said that coach Ryu left the team because of unpaid salaries. A: First of all, I need to explain how coach Ryu came to SlayerS. One day MMA told me he had a good friend of his. That was Won Ryu. Mr. Ryu wanted to introduce himself to me through MMA. So I met with him, and listened to him as he said he wanted to be a personal coach to MMA. He said to me, 'Living in the team house might be difficult, so I need to commute to the work from home.' 先解釋一下龍教練。有天MMA說他有個好朋友（龍教練）想要見個面。我們碰面了。他 說他希望擔任MMA的私人教練，但也說要住在宿舍有困難，所以需要通勤。 After accepting his proposal, I watched him coming to the house every day. So I told him, 'Why don't you just come and live in the house if you're going to work like this?' A few days later, he came to the house with his mother. I discussed with his mother about the future of e-sports and told her that 'there is no place in the Starcraft 2 scene that pays salaries to coaches and managers,' and added, 'Things will grow in the future.' Coach Ryu's mother agreed with me and left. Would I be able to pay coach Ryu, who never had any experiences at all? In the team we already had coach Hong, who was formerly a player before. I could not give salaries to coach Ryu when I wasn't even paying coach Hong. I only accepted him thinking that it will help MMA. Later I heard that he 'made a verbal contract with MMA,' so I replied 'So be it.' Coach Ryu never advised on players other than MMA for their matches. He never started as a SlayerS coach, but was an individual coach for MMA. When MMA went to Blizzcon, I sent coach Ryu as well since he was in a contract with MMA. MMA's assertion on cellphone roaming fees is a speculation. Back then there was a problem in player's booth in Blizzcon and I heard that coach Ryu make an objection. Although there was nothing I could do from Korea, he called me anyway. I said, 'There is nothing I can do to solve so use text instead.' I did not go there with them, so what can I do even if he calls me? Wasn't it just a waste of money? 接受提議之後，我看他每天都來宿舍，所以乾脆提議說你何不來跟我們一起住。幾天之後 他跟他媽媽一起來談。我跟他媽媽說目前沒有任何地方SC2教練經理有薪水的，但未來 可能有所成長。他媽媽同意後離開了。龍教練沒有任何經驗，況且我們已經有洪教練， 而且洪教練曾經是個選手，而且並沒有薪水，我怎麼可能付薪水給龍教練。我是因為 可能有助於MMA才同意的。後來我聽說他跟MMA有口頭約定，我回應說「那就這樣吧」龍 教練沒有對MMA以外的選手提出指導，他僅是MMA的個人教練，不是戰隊教練。MMA去 blizzcon的時候，因為龍教練跟MMA有合約，所以就送龍教練去。MMA說的手機漫遊費也 很。那時候比賽室有點問題所以龍教練提出抗議。儘管當時身在韓國的我沒有任何辦法 介入，龍教練還是打給我了。我說「我沒有任何辦法，所以改用簡訊吧」我沒跟去，所 以就算打給我我又能如何？不是只是浪費錢嗎？ Anyway, prize money for Blizzcon went to MMA, but he did not give portion of money to coach Ryu who was in a contract with MMA. Coach Ryu then came to me to complain. He wanted me to speak for him. So I told MMA a couple of times about it and MMA said he would pay coach Ryu but he never did. Then he later tossed out a graphics card he had won from some tournament to coach Ryu. What I want to say is that it's not that I didn't pay coach Ryu's salary, but MMA didn't pay him the money he promised, and that's why he left the team. On the contrary, I accommodated him with free meals and housing. 總之，獎金直接給了MMA，但他沒有把約好的部分給龍教練。龍教練有找我抱怨，要我 跟MMA說。所以我有跟MMA提過幾次，MMA也說他會給龍教練錢，但他並沒有。他後來把 某個比賽贏的顯卡拿出來給龍教練。我要說的是不是我不給龍教練薪水，而是MMA沒有 給他答應好的錢，才是他離開戰隊的原因。相反的，我還提供他住宿及三餐 : TIG: by contract annulment, you mean the contract between the team and : players? : Mma: yes, Jessica said in her interview that there was no splitting of the : prizes from individual events but told us to split the money because of ‘ : coach ryu’s wages and player maintenance funds’ at the time, cella received : some portion of player’s foreign prize winnings (less than ~$1000 USD). : Jessica said to give a portion of the winnings from foreign events. So as : agreed on the contract, we sent a portion of the winnings to an account : Jessica provided. After this, nothing changed still. : Boxer and Jessica almost never came to the practice room and we were managed : by the coaches only. We still had to take public transportation to get to and : from the venues and the team house. Even in the winter, we had to commute : between gimpo and mokdong (about 50~85min by bus/subway) and we realized that : this affected our conditions for the matches that we had to play that day. : After discussing this with the players, we also noticed that there were no : differences between the contracted players and the non-contract players and : came to a conclusion that this would not be good for the team, so we decided : to bring up the issue to boxer and Jessica. : 包嫂在訪談裡說他沒有從比賽抽成，但要我們分一些獎金出來負擔Ryu教練以及球隊運作 : 基金，當時Cella有拿到一些國外比賽的獎金（少於1000美金）。包嫂說要分一部份 : 獎金出來，所以根據合約，我們將一部份獎金轉到一個包嫂提供的帳戶。 : 包哥包嫂幾乎很少來練習室，我們都是教練在管的。我們還是要搭大眾運輸。就算是 : 冬天也要花50-85分鐘搭公車/地鐵去比賽會場，而我們也知道這會影響我們當天的比賽 : 手感。另外在隊員間討論之後，我們注意到有簽約跟沒簽約的隊員沒有什麼待遇上的差別 : ，我們覺得這對戰隊不好，所以向包哥包嫂反應。 : The reply that came back was ‘we cant give the car to cella’ and ‘coach : ryu has no license, so he can’t drive at all’. Crank couldn’t stand this, : so he volunteered to drive and drove the players to the gomtv studios. Crank : was part of the motorized military before, so he had plenty of driving : experience. Q: What about problems with transportation for matches? A: When I was filming for TV drama, (SlayerS) moved from Yeouido to Kimpo. Since I was absent due to filming, I told coach Hong to take care of transportation. I told him about this beforehand and players knew about it. When we were initially at Yeouido, I brought them to (the studio) by myself most of the time. But things changed in Kimpo. Sponsors disappeared. I became the financial provider and I needed to work to fulfill the commitment. We originally drove a van and an imported car. I felt like players did not appreciate for commuting to the studio. I wanted players to feel thankful for what I have done to them. From the house to the final subway stop, there was no difference in taxi and bus in terms of time but cost difference was huge. I felt sorry for them so I paid their taxi fees sometimes. 那時候我在拍連續劇，我們也剛搬家。因為工作，所以我要洪教練負責交通。我事先 就跟他講了，隊員們也都知道。當我們還沒搬家前，大部分時間都是我自己送他們去 。但搬家後事情改變了。贊助沒了，所以我必須工作才能兌現我的義務。我們之前是 用廂型車以及進口車。我覺得隊員們並沒有珍惜來往的接送。我希望他們知道感激我 為他們做的事情。從宿舍到地鐵站，搭計程車或公車時間上沒差但費用上差很多。我 對他們感到抱歉，所以有時候會幫他們付計程車錢。 : There was no change and the players’ discontent grew. I asked coach ryu if : he had received any wages and he told me that he did not receive anything : until February of 2012. Furthermore, when cella accompanied me to mlg in the : states, he had to pay for the roaming charges on his cell phone even though : Jessica promised to pay for it. Coach ryu asked Jessica about the promised : wages and was told that ‘we don’t collect money from the players, you go : collect it for yourself’. : About an hour after Jessica told ryu the aforementioned statement, she called : me and crank to her house. Boxer and Jessica told me everything and me and : crank talked of the discontent that we had. At the end, Jessica said that ‘ : lets nullify the contract right now’ and asked if we wanted to rip our : contracts, but I didn’t want to. We were returned the money that we paid : after a week. : 我們得到的回應是「我們不能把車給Cella」，「Ryu教練沒有駕照」Crank受不了，所以 : 自願充當司機。Crank當兵時有充分的駕駛經驗。但什麼都沒有改變，不滿也日益高漲。 : 我問Ryu教練他有沒有收到任何薪資，而他告訴我直到2012 2月前都沒有收到。Cella陪我 : MLG的時候，包嫂有答應要幫付手機漫遊的錢，但後來還是Cella自己付。當Ryu教練去問 : 包嫂有關薪水的事情的時候，包嫂說「我們不向隊員要錢，你自己去要」 : 在跟Ryu講了那些之後的一個小時，他把我跟Crank叫到他家。我們跟包哥包嫂把所有事情 : 都講開了。最後，包嫂說，我們現在把合約取消掉，問我們要不要取消，但我不想。一 : 個禮拜後我們拿回了之前我們付的錢。 : TIG: this contrasts with jessica’s statement that a contract was remaining. : When did you verify this? : Mma: we trusted Jessica. But this was our mistake. After Jessica said ‘lets : rip the contracts’, she gathered all the players and said ‘I wont hold you : back if you want to leave the team’. : At this time, the players that wanted to go to a foreign team (ganzi, taeja) : had their contracts nullified. After a few days, we asked if the contract was : really nullified. However, Jessica said that the contract was only nullified : for those that wanted to leave the team on that day only. After hearing this, : the players were very disappointed at Jessica and I was hurt by jessica’s : duplicity. : *note by editor here says taeja was not in a contract with slayers. : 我們相信包嫂，但那是我們的失誤。在包嫂說要把合約取消掉後，他召集了所以隊員 : ，然後說如果我們想離隊他不會阻止。當時想去國外戰隊的Ganzi Taeja順利離開了。 : 幾天後我們去問我們的合約是否真的取消了，但包嫂說只有當天表示要離隊的人合約 : 才被取消掉。在聽到這之後，我們對包嫂非常失望，我被包嫂的兩面個性傷得很重 : TIG: do you have anything to say about your relegation to B-team in july? : Mma: it was right before the GSTL match. After the aforementioned events, I : needed to clear my mind so I went out on Saturday. I cleared my mind and : returned. the game was coming up, so the only thing I was thinking was about : winning. Jessica stated that I did not return to the team house, but this is : false. I did all my tasks, then left on Saturday night and returned on Sunday : morning. : After returning, ryung told me what boxer said: ‘mma is like a cancer cell, : so I have to quarantine you from him’. After hearing this, I lost all : passion for preparing for the GSTL and the team. The thought that ran through : my mind was ‘im trying so hard for my team, but this is what they think of me : ’ and I despaired. : 在那些事情之後，我要讓思緒清楚點，所以我禮拜六出去了。我沈澱了思緒然後回去了 : 。及將要比GSTL了，我腦裡也只想要贏。包嫂說我沒有回宿舍但這是假的。我做了我 : 的工作，然後禮拜六晚上離開，禮拜天早上救回去了。回去之後，Ryung告訴我說包哥說 : 「MMA就像個癌細胞，所以我需要把你從他身邊隔離」聽到這之後，我喪失所以為GSTL : 或戰隊拼戰的熱誠。一想到我這麼拼命為戰隊但他們這樣想我讓我很絕望 Q: Was there any difference in treatment between contracted and non-contracted players? A: Of course not. There was no need to have contracts with players with no result. That doesn’t' mean I need to discriminate against them. It wasn't like those five players were earning money and gave it to me. 有沒有合約的待遇沒有差。沒有成績的隊員沒有合約的需要，但這不代表我有差別 待遇。又不是說那五個有合約的隊員是有賺錢給我。 Q: After you said you would tear off the contract, you said players wishing to leave can leave. A: I told them to leave the team if they want to do so. I told them to come talk to me personally if they didn’t want to speak out. Then only Ganzi came to me a few days later. 我說他們如果想離隊就離隊。如果他們不想公開表示則可以私下找我談。幾天之後 只有Ganzi來找我 Q: MMA also expressed his opinions on his demotion to the B-team. A: When I came looking for him on Saturday, he went out. I talked with Ryung on Sunday at noon, and he said MMA wasn't at the house on Sunday. He sent me a message through BoxeR that he did not want to participate in GSTL. So I intentionally sent him to GSTL. During this time he wasn't even practicing for individual leagues. Players like Alicia and MMA told me that they did not participate in team matches. Alicia's reason was that he did not like losing. He said he didn't like the pressure. I think it was the last season when MMA didn't appear [in GSTL] for a while as well. 禮拜天中午MMA還沒回來。他透過包哥跟我說他不想參加GSTL。所以我故意在GSTL派他 出賽。這時間他甚是沒有在為個人賽做準備。Alicia MMA都跟我說不想參加團體賽。 Alicia說他不喜歡輸。不喜歡那個壓力。我回想大概是從上季MMA就很少出現在GSTL Q: MMA also told that he had said he wanted to leave the team twice. A: He wanted to leave for few times. There were some offers of sponsorship and establishment from oversea. I could not inform this to the players until they were finalized. How could I face them if the deals fall apart after telling them about these? MMA曾經數次說過要離開。曾經有些海外的贊助機會，但在還沒確定之前我都不能跟 當事人講。如果後來沒談成的話，我要怎麼面對他們？ Q: What about his assertion on hiding information on transfers? A: I hid nothing. I search for teams because he wanted to move to a foreign team. A foreign team asked me how much it would cost to transfer MMA. So I simply stated his value. I told this team how much it would be after combining their offer on salaries, various costs for taking care of MMA, and the money needed to be paid to me for his remaining contractual period. I actually said that it would be better for them to use this amount to acquire our team as a whole. But I never received any replies. The negotiation didn't fail, but rather I simply replied to their request and even suggested an acquisition. 我沒有隱藏任何東西。因為他想去國外戰隊，我就開始找。某戰隊問我MMA轉隊要多少錢 ，我就回了他的價值。我告訴他們薪水、照顧MMA的費用、以及給我補償他剩下合約時間 的總額。我甚是說拿那個錢來把我們整隊買下來會比較好。但我沒收到任何回應。不是 談判失敗，而我是單純回應他們的問題，甚至提出收買整隊的提議。 : TIG: what kind of communication went between you and boxer? : Mma: boxer told me that I was relegated to the b-team so I should go home. I : wondered why I got relegated and did not understand. I wish boxer and Jessica : would have told me what I did wrong, but there was no communication between : us and I was relegated. : After hearing this from ryung, I packed my bags and told boxer ‘im leaving : so you don’t need to relegate me’. Boxer said that I was under a contract : so I couldn’t leave on my free will. This made my emotions run high and I : told him that this is a slavery contract. : About this statement, I am very sorry. The slavery contract was the contract : between the individuals of the management and me, not between the team and : me, so even if I transferred, I had to give a portion of the tournament : winnings to Jessica. There was silence for 10 minutes and boxer said ‘we do : things our way’ and the conversation ended. The next day, the article : regarding relegation came out. : 包哥跟我講我被放到二軍然後該回家。我希望包哥包嫂可以告訴我我做錯了什麼而被 : 放到二軍，但沒有任何溝通。我打包然後跟包哥說我要離開了所以你們不用下放我。 : 包哥說我仍然有合約所以不能離開，這時候情緒使然讓我說了奴隸合約的事情。 : 關於這，我非常抱歉。那個奴隸合約是我跟經理階層之間的合約，跟戰隊無關，所以 : 就算我轉隊，我還是要抽成給包嫂。大約十分鐘寂靜之後，包哥說「我們照我們的方式 : 做事」然後對談就結束了。隔天被下放的消息就出來了 Q: MMA said BoxeR's reason for halting his gaming career was because of Jessica's internal/external interferences. A: Back then BoxeR tended to get angry very easily whenever he lost a game in the practice. I contacted him about matters unrelated to gaming, and he took it out on me and said I was preventing him from practicing. Then BoxeR said he was exhausted and perhaps in need of a break [from gaming]. MMA basically falsely incriminated me. BoxeR gave up on his career because of other players. BoxeR is not a type of person to side with me because I am his girlfriend. Although I do feel sad about it but he's always fair. He always listens to both sides before deciding. He even once said that 'I feel like people are attacking [me] because I play StarCraft 2.' Also I cannot say anything about his games. All I could say in GSTL was something like, 'The opponent seems to be all-ining so let's attack him first.' I sometimes commented on things for fun, but I do not even ask him how things are going with the practice. Even if I ask, his mouth is too heavy to spare any words, even with me. 那時包哥在輸之後很容易生氣。我跟他講無關比賽的事情時，他發洩在我身上說我 妨礙他練習。後來包哥說他累了，可能需要暫時休息。MMA誣賴我。包哥退休是因為 其他隊員。包哥不是那種因為我是他女友所以會站在我這邊的人。雖然我會感覺到 傷心但他是公平的。他永遠都會聽雙方意見才會做出決定。他有一次甚至說「我覺得 人們會攻擊我是因為我玩SC2」 另外我也不能說有關他的比賽。在GSTL我能說的也只有類似「對方似乎會ALL IN，所以 我們先出手吧」我有時候會因為有趣而講一些話，但我不會問他練習的情形。就算 我問，他不會有回應，就算是我也是一樣。 : TIG: after the article came out, Jessica came to the interview for code a : (july 25th) : Mma: I met with Jessica and asked ‘how could you write an article like this’ : . i asked ‘did I even ask for a transfer to a foreign team?’ and the reply : that came back was ‘I’ll rewrite the article if you want’. I was : flabbergasted. She then explained me the terms of the ‘slavery contract’. ‘ : this is nothing. In the entertainment industry, the standard for a contract : is 5 or 10 years’ : I wondered the relevance of bringing up terms of contracts in the : entertainment industry. After, Jessica said that she will not receive any : statements about the relegation and cut off questions from reporters. So the : interview went out, but it was only about the game itself. I had a little bit : to say at the end about my current situation and feelings to the fans. : 後來Code A訪談包嫂有來，我遇到包嫂問他說他怎麼可以寫那樣的文章呢。我問包嫂 : 「我有要求轉到外國戰隊嗎」，我得到的回應是「如果你要我可以重寫那篇文章」我 : 超氣的。他向我解釋「奴隸合約」。在演藝界，制式合約大多五年或十年。 : TIG: you told Jessica you wanted to leave twice : Mma: yes, that’s right. The first time was when everyone at the team house : was having a hard time because of the incident with manager J and I could not : stand the management badmouthing me so I did not want to be a part of the : team anymore. However there were those that helped me out a lot before and I : was thankful, so I did not tell them of the current events (I think he’s : referring to manager/coaches of other teams). instead, I said I wanted a : transfer to a foreign team. Shortly afterwards, talks began with slayers and : a foreign team (TL). During this, a lot of facts were hidden from me (by : Jessica) so my mistrust grew even more. So I said I wanted to leave the team : for a second time : 我曾經兩次跟包嫂說我要離開。第一次是因為J事件而責怪責任到我身上的時候。但當 : 時還是有人幫助我很多，我非常感謝，所以我沒有跟管理階層的人講到實際發生的事情 : ，而是講說我想換到國外戰隊。在這之後戰隊跟TL有一些對談。過程中包嫂對我隱瞞了 : 很多事情，所以我的不信任感增加更多。這時是我第二次說想離隊 : TIG: Jessica said that when you went to foreign events, no one (other : Koreans) said hello to you and ostracized you while badmouthing Jessica. Is : this true? : Mma: I went to more foreign events than any other members of my team. So I : was able to hear bad rumors of Jessica from other people. Although I heard : these, I respected her so I was very objective about them. I told Jessica of : these, and Jessica said wistfully that she would like to become friendly with : other teams as well. : Even after this, there was no change and Jessica even said ‘this is how we : don’t get ignored by other teams’. I said that there were other methods of : going about this and she said that ‘you have to be vocal to be heard’. : Afterwards, I did not tell Jessica what other people thought of her. : 我參加最多國外比賽，所以我有聽到一些包嫂不好的謠言。因為我還是非常尊敬包嫂， : 所以我把聽到的都跟包嫂講。包嫂跟我說他也希望可以跟其他戰隊的人友好。在這之後 : 也沒改變，包嫂甚至說「這樣我們才不會被其他隊漠視」（我猜是網路上吵架的事）。 : 我說應該有其他方法，但包嫂說你必須大聲講話才能被聽到。在這之後我再也沒跟包嫂 : 講其他人怎麼看他的事情了 : TIG: can you tell us of hidden facts regarding the transfer : Mma: afterwards, I was able to find out about the trade negotiations. An : incredibly large sum of money was demanded for me even though I had 3 months : left on my contract. The talks broke down. This was because of the absurd : transfer fee and other inquiries were made to teams that I didn’t even want : to go to. : After a month, I was able to verify that in some negotiations, my transfer : fee was zero. This change in behavior in Jessica is what ultimately made : boxer move to SKT1. : 我後來發現儘管我還有三個月合約在身，在對談中他們還是要求了大筆轉隊費。因為 : 無理的轉隊費，對談結束了。他們有向一些我壓根沒有想去的戰隊詢問接收我的可能 : 姓。一個月後，我得知在一些對談中我的轉隊費是零。包嫂的這些改變是最後導致 : 包哥回SKT1的原因 : TIG: in april, boxer stated that he stopped playing because of the players. : What do you think of this statement : Mma: I think the biggest reason why boxer stopped playing is because of : jessica’s constant interference in and out of the game. Boxer likes to focus : and practice. Although he gets angry after a loss, he endures it and : continues playing. In situations like this, calls kept coming about : unimportant stuff and he sometimes complained that he couldn’t practice : because of Jessica. : Because of this, the atmosphere in the team house fell. Jessica likes to read : various community sites and berated boxer by saying things like ‘why did you : do this’, ‘why didn’t you use this strategy’. Overall, the meddling was : pretty severe. : Boxer sometimes said that he wanted to quit gaming because of all the : meddling. Because of this, boxer and Jessica argued a lot. During this time : period, an article was published saying that boxer’s shoulder conditions : were not good. Although his shoulders were not very good from previous times, : I think the main reason for boxer’s quitting as a player is because of : Jessica. : 四月的時候，包哥說因為隊員的原因而暫時停止出賽。但我覺得最大的原因是因為包嫂 : 持續的干預比賽內外的事情。包哥喜歡專注於練習，雖然比賽輸了會很生氣，但他會去 : 接受並且繼續練習。在這樣的情況下，包嫂會一直打來講一些有的沒有的，包哥有時候 : 會抱怨因為包嫂的原因而無法練習 : 因為這樣，宿舍氣氛變的很糟。包嫂愛看很多社群網站，然後對包哥說「你為什麼這樣 : 做，為什麼不用這個戰術」總而言之，干預的情形很嚴重。包哥甚是有說過因為這些干 : 預甚至想直接退休。因為這樣，包哥包嫂常常吵架。這期間，有報導說包哥肩膀情形不 : 太好。雖然他肩膀從前就不太好，但我覺得包哥退休的主要原因是因為包嫂 : From a player’s perspective, the interview with Jessica about the team’s : disbanding seems to be directed wholly at the players. She fails to : acknowledge that she had faults with her managerial skills and tries to blame : all of it on us. Therefore, boxer did not lose his will to play because of us. : 從隊員角度來看，包嫂有關戰隊解散的訪談全部都在責怪隊員，他沒有承認他經營 : 能力上的失誤。包哥並不是因為我們才喪失動力的 : TIG: Jessica said that mma has no desire to move to a kespa team or play in : proleague : 包嫂說你沒有興趣轉到kespa? : Mma: when I was doing well, Jessica said that when slayers could negotiate : with kespa teams in the future, she would sell me to SKT1 for a large amount : of money. She said that skt1 is the best terran team and wished that I would : do better than fantasy (when he transfers). : Before I started playing sc2, I was a practice student in skt1. I was in poor : health there. When I played more than 25 games a day, my index finger would : start to get paralyzed and my whole hand would hurt. So I only played about : 20 games and I spent the rest of the time watching replays and VODS, as well : as researching. Back then, the proleague system was a place where I couldn’t : do well physically. Somehow, this statement got blown out of proportion and I : do not understand this. : 在我表現還好的時候時，包嫂有說過當SlayerS可以跟kespa談的時候，他會用高價把我 : 賣給SKT1。他說那是人族最好的戰隊，希望我可以比太子還出色 : 在我打SC2之前，我曾經是skt1的練習生。那時我健康情形不好，如果一天打超過25場 : 比賽，我食指會麻痺整個手會痛。所以我一天大概幾打個20場然後剩下時間都在看replay : 或vod以及想戰術。但不知怎麼搞的這種說法竟然被扭曲成那樣，我無法理解 Q: According to MMA's words, there is a contrast in talks about Proleague. A: That was when KeSPA was about to switch to StarCraft 2. I told the players previously as well. 'When time goes by and if we manage to compete in the Proleague, play games like you never did before.' Although it was a joke, I said that I will also be happy to receive transfer fees. I didn't come to this scene to earn big money. When I was searching for a team after (MMA) requested a transfer to the foreign team, I told him, 'Going to a KeSPA team will give you a more steady income.' If your performance was okay, you could have gone to anywhere. SKT T1 could even give you a call and I had no reason to hold you. That's what I said to all players. But then he said he tried pro gamer life in StarCraft and it was not suitable for him so he didn't want to go back. To my eyes, all of our players seemed to be doing well. I thought all of them were good candidates to become coaches someday. So I told him not to make up his mind already. I told him people do not know what will happen to them, so just play his games well. When we were at Yeouido, we worked like a KeSPA team. Then players complained that it was too hard for them. So I told them to choose their environment and methods by themselves. Then their performances started dipping. So I tightened [the practice] again. Once their performances got better, I loosened the grip and it dipped down yet again. If you just think about the results, they were good only when there was a tight regimen. And then players said that results aren't everything. 我開玩笑的說「我很樂意收轉隊費」（如果是因為表現好而被KESPA挖角） 我做遮不是為了賺錢。當MMA要求要轉國外戰隊而我在找戰隊時，我告訴他去KESPA 戰隊會有比較穩定的收入。如果你表現好，你想去哪都可以。可能連SKT1會打給你而 我也沒阻止你的原因。我對所有人都這麼說。但他說他不想打職業星海了。在我看來， 我們所有隊員都表現不錯，甚至可能有一天都可以成為教練。我告訴他不要這麼快下決定 ，我說人們不知道將來會發生什麼事情，好好打好比賽就好。我們曾經像KESPA戰隊一樣 運作，隊員抱怨太嚴苛，所以我告訴他們自己決定訓練環境和方法。後來我們成績 開始下滑，所以我又開始嚴格了。當成績開始有起色後，我又放鬆了，但成績又下滑 了。結果論來看，只有當嚴格一點的時候成績才好。但隊員又說成績不是一切。 : TIG: anything else you want to say? : Mma: I want to thank boxer and Jessica for making me a famous player as well : as giving me an opportunity in slayers. However, the events that occurred up : until now have affected the team in a very bad way and I have also gotten : hurt. I want to apologize to boxer and Jessica about these events. : However, I want to state that jessica’s interview in many ways were : distorted and a lot of players received unnecessary blame for it. That’s why : they agreed to interviews. I apologize for making the fans worry so much. I : would also like to apologize for any wrongdoings done by the plays, on behalf : of the players. Again, I am very sorry. : 我要謝謝包哥包嫂讓我成名以及給我機會在SlayerS表現。但是所發生的事情嚴重的影響 : 要戰隊，我也受傷了。針對這些事情我向包哥包嫂表達歉意。 : 但是，我要表明包嫂訪談中很多地方都被扭曲，很多隊員承擔了不關的指責，所以他們 : 才會出來接受訪談。我讓粉絲擔心這麼多也方常抱歉。我也代表隊員們，對於他們可能 : 做出的不太好的事情道歉。再次的，我非常抱歉。 Q: Is there anything else you wish to say? A: I am really tired now. The essence is that this is who I am. Even if one is a sworn enemy, I do not abandon him or her if one accepts his or her mistake. I would even forgive him or her. But not like this interview. It only reveals deeper truth. There are still more to be revealed than what was already revealed. I didn't reveal everything and showed only this much because I was afraid that remaining fans will leave the scene when more is revealed. If you have no evidence to back your claims, accept your mistakes and apologize. Then I will forget everything and forgive you. 我現在很累。重點是這就是我的為人。就算是死敵，只要他們承認錯誤，我不會遺棄 他們。我甚至會員量他們。還有更多八卦可以揭露。我沒有揭露是因為不希望還剩下 的粉絲都走光。如果你沒有證據支持你的說法，承認你的錯誤然後道歉。則我會忘記 一切以及原諒你。 : original article: : http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?category=13439&id=1319677 : ※ 引述《kira925 (1 2 3 4 疾風炭)》之銘言： : : 配宵夜的東西來了 : : TIG MMA採訪 : : http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?category=13439&id=1319677 : : 對不起，這是韓文T_T : : 連TL論壇都在求翻譯 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 140.112.133.187
推
10/23 16:15, , 1F
3000鎂 還真的會被抽喔......
10/23 16:15, 1F
推
10/23 16:17, , 2F
關於KeSPA合約那段 那ESF選手還是要老K點頭才算職業選手?
10/23 16:17, 2F
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10/23 16:17, , 3F
你會站在你女友那邊嗎? (y/n)
10/23 16:17, 3F
推
10/23 16:17, , 4F
MMA某個比賽贏的顯卡拿出來給龍教練。 .....顯卡人族
10/23 16:17, 4F
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10/23 16:17, , 5F
因為只有老K能發職業證照啊= =?
10/23 16:17, 5F
推
10/23 16:17, , 6F
顯卡人族確定(蓋章
10/23 16:17, 6F
推
10/23 16:18, , 7F
練習生沒薪水 選手只有獎金 教練也沒薪水 悲慘世界.....
10/23 16:18, 7F
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10/23 16:18, , 8F
比起來Cella也太偉大了
10/23 16:18, 8F
推
10/23 16:18, , 9F
不遵守合約....zZz
10/23 16:18, 9F
推
10/23 16:19, , 10F
每篇風向都小有差異 這篇風向會如何呢? 我很在意
10/23 16:19, 10F
推
10/23 16:19, , 11F
包嫂一波 MMA贏顯卡給Ryu當薪資..OMG
10/23 16:19, 11F
推
10/23 16:19, , 12F
最後還來個 還有更多八卦可以揭露 (太恐怖了)
10/23 16:19, 12F
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10/23 16:19, , 13F
其實MMA說的包嫂都很委婉地(?)承認
10/23 16:19, 13F
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10/23 16:21, , 14F
MMA的3千鎂 扣掉國外繳稅3成 然後再被抽2成 痾.......
10/23 16:21, 14F
推
10/23 16:21, , 15F
看完了 結論 顯卡是真的喔
10/23 16:21, 15F
推
10/23 16:21, , 16F
英文翻譯在贊助商的部分據說翻錯了
10/23 16:21, 16F
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10/23 16:22, , 17F
顯卡當酬勞呵呵呵MMA怎麼都不提一下
10/23 16:22, 17F
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10/23 16:22, , 18F
除了顯卡很糟外,MMA這波看起來殺光了包嫂二礦的農民
10/23 16:22, 18F
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10/23 16:23, , 19F
MMA:GTX690一塊多少錢你去查查! 還說我小氣!!
10/23 16:23, 19F
推
10/23 16:23, , 20F
MMA的私人教練那段，他真的不錯說，可惜去熊津了
10/23 16:23, 20F
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10/23 16:23, , 21F
長的很像小孩不笨的導演 XD
10/23 16:23, 21F
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10/23 16:23, , 22F
不過看來抽成是用在團隊上 這也算合理?
10/23 16:23, 22F
推
10/23 16:23, , 23F
可惜顯卡沒有強制通行力
10/23 16:23, 23F
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10/23 16:24, , 24F
不過我覺得包嫂講的比較清楚一點
10/23 16:24, 24F
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10/23 16:24, , 25F
但熊津的T都不怎麼樣啊
10/23 16:24, 25F
推
10/23 16:24, , 26F
贊助>成績>練習>其他問題 從$角度想好像也可以解釋很多
10/23 16:24, 26F
推
10/23 16:25, , 27F
搞到最後會變成互揭瘡疤嗎= =
10/23 16:25, 27F
推
10/23 16:25, , 28F
顯卡這段如果是真的 就這件事而言MMA是蠻糟糕的...
10/23 16:25, 28F
推
10/23 16:25, , 29F
GTX690抽1成變620 好慘
10/23 16:25, 29F
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10/23 16:25, , 30F
顯卡這段是MMA空投被血雨了....
10/23 16:25, 30F
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10/23 16:25, , 31F
與其說瘡疤 但目前就道理上包嫂算站的住腳 只要她沒A錢
10/23 16:25, 31F
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10/23 16:26, , 32F
基本上除了她帶心沒帶好 戰隊面沒啥能攻擊她
10/23 16:26, 32F
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10/23 16:26, , 33F
兩邊都有問題吧...但MMA這個也太誇張了...
10/23 16:26, 33F
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10/23 16:26, , 34F
我一直不認為包嫂要a什麼錢...@_@ 淘空公司嗎？
10/23 16:26, 34F
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10/23 16:26, , 35F
應該沒人說他A錢吧 都在說管理戰隊的事情
10/23 16:26, 35F
推
10/23 16:27, , 36F
我很好奇教練都沒錢 他們平常吃甚麼
10/23 16:27, 36F
推
10/23 16:27, , 37F
SlayerS已經窮透了 還能A啥錢?
10/23 16:27, 37F
推
10/23 16:27, , 38F
MMA跟他教練不是朋友嗎 該不會因為顯卡事件決裂吧
10/23 16:27, 38F
推
10/23 16:27, , 39F
MMA一開始信J經理說包嫂有A贊助一事
10/23 16:27, 39F
還有 324 則推文
還有 2 段內文
推
10/23 18:01, , 364F
不知獎金的稅多少??怎麼不從獎金扣?要包嫂出??
10/23 18:01, 364F
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10/23 18:01, , 365F
開玩笑的說? 這樣別人也能事後都說都是開玩笑的囉?
10/23 18:01, 365F
推
10/23 18:01, , 366F
沒簽約應該只能打打線上和網咖，國外就別想了
10/23 18:01, 366F
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10/23 18:02, , 367F
後來改知道贊助從MMA改包哥 又說自己不清楚 那到底
10/23 18:02, 367F
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10/23 18:03, , 368F
戰隊管理者是誰啊? 出了事就推卸責任 果然是鄉民說
10/23 18:03, 368F
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10/23 18:03, , 369F
的 出了社會要懂著保護自己 推卸責任+只拿對自己有利
10/23 18:03, 369F
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10/23 18:04, , 370F
證據+裝傻 果然出社會比較成熟 比較能唬弄人
10/23 18:04, 370F
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10/23 18:04, , 371F
據很久以前MC的說法 韓國內是5% 海外大概30%
10/23 18:04, 371F
推
10/23 18:05, , 372F
他不是說他去查明了之後根本沒有M的贊助這回事嗎
10/23 18:05, 372F
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10/23 18:05, , 373F
你想笑也把文章看完在笑 不然是出來讓人家笑的
10/23 18:05, 373F
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10/23 18:05, , 374F
所以TB完全沒在怕 說你快出招..
10/23 18:05, 374F
推
10/23 18:05, , 375F
有沒有懶人包...越看越物煞煞
10/23 18:05, 375F
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10/23 18:06, , 376F
MMA根本沒有確定的贊助吧...
10/23 18:06, 376F
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10/23 18:06, , 377F
贊助那部份 好像還沒有很清楚吧
10/23 18:06, 377F
推
10/23 18:07, , 378F
有沒有贊助是一回事，總之J經理就是讓MMA相信有贊助
10/23 18:07, 378F
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10/23 18:08, , 379F
那邊怎演的應該是核心問題 還沒人講的很清楚
10/23 18:08, 379F
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10/23 18:08, , 380F
所以他才相信包哥包嫂搶了他的贊助 然後開始不滿
10/23 18:08, 380F
推
10/23 18:10, , 381F
剛開始風光成立 接下來成績越來越好 戰隊卻越來越窮
10/23 18:10, 381F
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10/23 18:11, , 382F
會有懷疑好像也是很正常的?
10/23 18:11, 382F
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10/23 18:12, , 383F
非常正常 又不是沒贊助(初期)
10/23 18:12, 383F
推
10/23 19:49, , 384F
mma當時那麼猛 要找不到贊助很難吧
10/23 19:49, 384F
推
10/23 19:57, , 385F
1百萬韓元以下抽一成，2百萬以上抽兩成<=好像哪裡怪怪的
10/23 19:57, 385F
推
10/23 19:59, , 386F
所以說 100~199 萬 不用抽(無誤
10/23 19:59, 386F
推
10/23 20:10, , 387F
這種抽法還蠻天才的0.0
10/23 20:10, 387F
推
10/23 20:14, , 388F
1百萬韓元以下抽兩成，2百萬以上抽一成<=這樣比較正常吧
10/23 20:14, 388F
推
10/23 20:17, , 389F
很多包嫂開玩笑的事情也許別人不覺的開玩笑吧...
10/23 20:17, 389F
推
10/23 20:18, , 390F
對包嫂不利的話都變成是在開玩笑
10/23 20:18, 390F
推
10/23 20:22, , 391F
沒証據的話 故事你怎麼說都可以
10/23 20:22, 391F
推
10/23 20:30, , 392F
ACE現在應該立刻出來說他之前都在開玩笑
10/23 20:30, 392F
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10/23 20:42, , 393F
星海人生 太有趣了!!!默默欣賞後續發展
10/23 20:42, 393F
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10/23 21:44, , 394F
1百萬抽1成,2百萬抽2成。賺多抽多正常,你不可能抽窮人2成
10/23 21:44, 394F
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10/23 21:45, , 395F
抽有錢人1成吧。這算是有保障低收入戶的權益。
10/23 21:45, 395F
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10/23 21:46, , 396F
mma說奴隸合約也太過,演藝界會說奴隸合約是抽5成以上,綁
10/23 21:46, 396F
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10/23 21:47, , 397F
約5年,他不是簽個一年約而已?抽成還是累進比例沒超過2成
10/23 21:47, 397F
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10/23 21:48, , 398F
這種抽法就累進稅率阿 世界上各大政府都是這樣子抽成 XDDDD
10/23 21:48, 398F
推
10/23 22:39, , 399F
看來很多人不了解累進稅制。
10/23 22:39, 399F
推
10/23 23:07, , 400F
政府可以這樣抽~不代表戰隊這樣抽不會讓選手反彈
10/23 23:07, 400F
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10/23 23:08, , 401F
就像仲介的佣金~金額大到某個程度~仲介自然要降點趴數的
10/23 23:08, 401F
推
10/24 07:59, , 402F
抽兩成很少吧...錢少還抽少超佛心
10/24 07:59, 402F
推
10/24 14:53, , 403F
這種抽法很正常吧..
10/24 14:53, 403F
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