Re: [考題] What would you do _____?
※ 引述《tijj (my two cents)》之銘言:
: ※ 引述《l10nel (小失)》之銘言:
: 以上,請你自己去證明 "what would you do when you HAD..." 與
: "what would you do when you WERE..." 是一樣的
: 以上,請你自己去證明 "what would you do when you GOT..." 與
: "what would you do when you WERE..." 是一樣的
: 以上,請你自己去證明 "what would you do when you COULD..." 與
: "what would you do when you WERE..." 是一樣的
: 請你自己去證明這些結構每個全部都跟
: "what would you do when you WERE..."是一樣的
: 這結構,請你自己去證明,與"What would you do when you were..."是一樣的.
這些網路例子、書中片段,和 Declerck 文法書例句,和被蛇咬的句子文法結構一樣,
情態、時態也都一樣,這麼明顯的事,請問你說不一樣的理由何在?還有誰要站出來
跟腔的? Just because you cried irrelevance five times does not make
it so, you know? Where are your reasoning and evidence?
: 推 hopeliu:今天問了兩位系上教授,一位台灣元老籍,一位美國籍,都 04/12 21:24
: → hopeliu:說(A)是錯誤句,不能表示remote/tentative/hypothetical 04/12 21:25
: → hopeliu:的意思,要這樣表示就用if子句。 04/12 21:27
: 推 brella:學校英國籍外語老師也說要把would改成did 04/12 22:42
: 推 Chengheong:英國籍外語老師說要把would改成did 04/13 12:42
這些說(A)錯的人:你們也都認為我舉出的例句和(A)不相關嗎?如果不相關,理由是?
如果你們願意舉一反三,看見這些句子結構都一樣或者相關、相仿,這個討論才得以繼續
下去。那麼多例句中,就拿最後那本書來討論吧。我再將書的內容重列一遍,並加入更多
前後文:
Essentials of Early Childhood Education
By Carol Gestwicki, Jane Bertrand
Codes of Ethics
We noted earlier in the chapter that a profession has a code of ethics, which
is a statement of principle that governs moral behaviour and ethical
decisions. In Canada several professional organizations have developed code
of ethics statements for early childhood educators, to be used as a guide in
making day-to-day decisions.
Early childhood educators are frequently faced with ethical dilemmas in their
work with young children and their families:
‧ What would you do when a parent demanded to know who hit her child?
‧ What would you do when a co-worker complained to you about another
co-worker's treatment of a child?
‧ What would you do if a neighbour told you she heard had things about the
last centre vou worked in?
‧ What would your responsibility be when another teacher told you that
symptoms made her suspect child abuse, but that she was afraid to report it?
Often, early childhood educators have to take action in situations in which
all the facts are not known, or there is no single course of action that is
clearly right or wrong. It is sometimes difficult to decide what an ethical
response might be.
Making ethical decisions and taking ethical actions in early childhood
education and care may require being able to see beyond short-term
consequences to consider long-range consequences.
When you work in early childhood education and care settings, you will be
asked to make many decisions about appropriate behaviour. Some of these
decisions will require more than your accumulated knowledge of child
development or educational practice. Some will pose genuine moral dilemmas,
where you have to weigh your actions carefully in considering the panics
involved.
你們如何理解中間四句問句的意義?我之前說,這四句話,因為有充足的前後文,又是
出自一本專業領域的書,是再好不過的例證。大家在一頭熱、人云亦云跟著排斥(A)之前,
請花一點時間看完以上整個語境,再想想,這四句為什麼這樣寫?首先思考它的時間到底
指向過去經驗,還是在做一種可能的假設、設想?這是第一要務。
hopeliu: 老師說,"要這樣表示就用if子句"
為什麼四句中有三句用 when 一句用 if?
brella/Chengheong: "英國籍外語老師也說要把would改成did"
為什麼四句都用 would 而不用 did?
Chengheong 還上網問了某老師,回答: "A is not possible..."
這本書存在是事實吧?書裡寫了這四句話,其中有三句都用了和(A)結構一樣的句子,
這也顯而易見吧?Still not possible?那位"老師"真該多涉獵英語這個東西,別急著
自己亂立「稻草人」,還揚揚得意招呼別人快來駁倒它。
: 推 Darren37:有一種醍醐灌頂的感覺
現在還是這種感覺嗎?你先前說,我也同意,(A)有一個「過去經驗」的語義。你難道
看了 "A is not possible..." 之後就不假思索抹煞先前對(A)「過去經驗」的認知了
嗎?為何這樣輕易扼殺一個難得的語感?這「過去經驗」的語感,這裡好多人顯然還沒
體會到。可惜啊,請三思。
→ shizz:的確what would you do if 或是what did you do when比較順 04/13 15:24
同樣請問,為何四句中三句用 when;為何四句都用 would 而不用 did?
→ Chengheong:胡扯一通
除了幫腔、亂罵人,你自己的看法是?
: 以我熟知的Harvard與MIT評分標準來看, 你交出這樣的reasoning, 不少教授
: 應該會死當你.
有請板主:可否代勸以上板友收斂一點,別一再尖酸刻薄到這程度(不久前另一個話題,
還說要給我打零分)。到目前就這題還沒拿出什麼論據來。
--
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◆ From: 76.198.133.1
※ 編輯: l10nel 來自: 76.198.133.1 (04/13 15:37)
※ 編輯: l10nel 來自: 76.198.133.1 (04/13 15:46)
※ 編輯: l10nel 來自: 76.198.133.1 (04/13 16:06)
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linzh: 請看
http://tinyurl.com/brcufgx
#6,重點:
"Imagine that someone has been on a training course..."
...
"It's possible that none of those things will happen in your job, but you can
still express what you would do if they did happen. "
這個描述清楚說明這時假設,不是過去實際發生的(經常性)經驗。
再看看原書前後文,所有時態都是現在式,講的是現在的一般原則,而非敘述過去
這些兒童教育者怎樣處理。
因為有這個前後文,這四句才可判定為假設,而非過去。去掉語境,第一個給大多人
人的感覺是過去(這我第一篇就說過),至於假設的意義必須更用力想才可領會。
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※ 編輯: l10nel 來自: 76.198.133.1 (04/14 10:58)
所謂 parallel,尤其 syntax 上的,範圍可大了,不限於你所述這一種單單在詞彙上(
何況還限於動物名詞)的類比。假設語言初學者只學過動詞 bite,你今天教他認識動物
名詞,造新的句子,可以這樣做,因為學生也沒能力超越這個範疇觸類旁通,除非學到新
的詞彙和句法成分。
我們在此談論的,已經遠超過這個層級了吧?應該從動物名詞提升到名詞、其他詞性,從
單字提升到詞組,從被動延伸到主動,從問句延伸到直述句,等等,可以類比的成分和層
次無法一一列舉,重點是:要懂得挑選固定不變的成分和可變成分,好比科學實驗的對照
組、控制組。
具體說,我們討論的是 when-clause 整個子句內容(S + VP)的類比:
What would you do when [S + VP]?
以下這些重要限制都顯而易見:
1. 前半整個將時態和情態限制在 would(重要焦點);
2. 限制 when (當然,這是也焦點之一!)
3. 限制 VP 必須是 past tense,這限制有道理:因為這個 past tense 也是討論句子合
不合法、語義正當與否的焦點之一。
詞彙、語義上,我們可說還進一步限制,S 和 VP 必須指涉人類現實世界存在的事物、可
能真的發生的事(被蛇咬、家長前來抱怨、發生核子戰),去除如 bigfoot, unicorn,
"were eaten by a 300-pound ant with eight legs" 等不存在的東西,這樣才不會扯到
哲學、存在、邏輯那方面的複雜度。
是不是問句並不重要,可限可不限,所以,[John said] he would commit suicide
when a nuclear war broke out 也可納為 parallel。
有了這些有原因、非偶然的限制,而非天馬行空的任選句子,我們因此得到一組可幫助理
解被蛇咬句的、可供類比的 syntactic parallels,你對其中一句的觀察、分析、設想語
境所得的結論,可以舉一反三、觸類旁通,應用到其他句子。如果在這適宜類推的原則下
,你仍要判斷一句合法,但另一句不合法,那麼說明無法類推的理由(例如你發現什麼特
殊 constraints)責任在你。The burden of proof is on you.
※ 編輯: l10nel 來自: 76.198.133.1 (04/14 18:02)
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