Re: [新聞] 先叫先降?網友質疑長榮航班呼叫Mayday

看板Aviation作者 (肩膀痠痛 ..)時間9年前 (2015/08/10 01:10), 編輯推噓17(17036)
留言53則, 22人參與, 最新討論串4/18 (看更多)
我國雖然不是 ICAO 正式成員, 但運作應該和 ICAO 規範相去不遠, 所以理論上參考其他飛安單位針對國際民航組織 ICAO Annex 6 有關燃料管理 和 ATC 溝通訊息用詞的規範, 應該有其價值. 參考資料: 歐洲航空安全局(EASA) 適航指令 2013-12 Source: 1. http://ad.easa.europa.eu/ad/2013-12 2. http://ad.easa.europa.eu/blob/SIB_201312_ InFlight_Fuel_Management__Phraseology_to_ATC.pdf/SIB_2013-12_1 短網址: http://tinyurl.com/nht5f5j 2013-12 : In-Flight Fuel Management – Phraseology for Fuel Related Messages to Air Traffic Control (ATC) 2013-12: 飛航燃料管理 - 對 ATC 使用的燃料相關訊息之用詞 Description: Through state letter 10/2012, ICAO announced the adopted amendment 36 to Annex 6 Part I effective as of 15 November 2012. This amendment introduced, among others, new standards for in-flight fuel management and a new fuel related phraseology. 根據 state latter 10/2012, ICAO 公告 Annex 6 Part I 修正案 36 從 2012 年 11 月 15 日正式生效. 本修正案導入 飛航中燃料管理和燃料相關用語的新標準 The relevant standards are the following: 相關標準如下: 4.3.7 In-flight fuel management 飛航燃料管理 4.3.7.1 An operator shall establish policies and procedures, approved by the State of the Operator, to ensure that in-flight fuel checks and fuel management are performed. 操作員應該要建立由所屬國核准的相關政策和程序, 以確保飛航中的燃料檢查和燃料管理有確實執行. 4.3.7.2 The pilot-in-command shall continually ensure that the amount of usable fuel remaining on board is not less than the fuel required to proceed to an aerodrome where a safe landing can be made with the planned final reserve fuel remaining upon landing. 機長(PIC)需持續確保機上可用油量, 不低於可安全降落機場, 且落地後仍保有計畫中的最終保留油量. 4.3.7.2.1 The pilot-in-command shall request delay information from ATC when unanticipated circumstances may result in landing at the destination aerodrome with less than the final reserve fuel plus any fuel required to proceed to an alternate aerodrome or the fuel required to operate to an isolated aerodrome. 當不可預料之情況, 導致降落在目的地機場時, 油量會低於 1) 計畫最終保留油量, 加上 2) 飛往備降場 或 航向另一機場(註) 之油量 之總和時, 機長應由 ATC 取得延遲資訊. (註: isolated aerodrome) 4.3.7.2.2 The pilot-in-command shall advise ATC of a minimum fuel state by declaring MINIMUM FUEL when, having committed to land at a specific aerodrome, the pilot calculates that any change to the existing clearance to that aerodrome may result in landing with less than planned final reserve fuel. 當最低油量狀態成立時, 機長應對 ATC 宣告 MINIMUM FUEL. 最低油量條件為, 當已經決定降落在某特定機場時, 若目前所得之降落許可發生任何變化, 導致降落時油量低於計畫最終保留油量. Note 1.— The declaration of MINIMUM FUEL informs ATC that all planned aerodrome options have been reduced to a specific aerodrome of intended landing and any change to the existing clearance may result in landing with less than planned final reserve fuel. This is not an emergency situation but an indication that an emergency situation is possible should any additional delay occur. 宣告 MINIMUM FUEL 告知 ATC 所有的計畫降落機場選項, 會縮減至單一特定機場, 且對既有降落許可的任何改變, 都將導致降落時的油量低於計畫最終保留油量. 這並不是一個緊急狀態, 但預告了當有任何延遲發生, 就可能發生緊急狀態. Note 2.— Guidance on declaring minimum fuel is contained in the Fuel Planning Manual (Doc 9976). It should be noted that Pilots should not expect any form of priority handling as a result of a “MINIMUM FUEL” declaration. ATC will, however, advise the flight crew of any additional expected delays as well as coordinate when transferring control of the aeroplane to ensure other ATC units are aware of the flight’s fuel state. 在燃油計畫手冊(Doc 9976)中有針對最低油量的指導. 飛行員應注意宣告 MINIMUM FUEL, 並不代表一定會得到優先處理. ATC 將會告知飛航組員有關於任何可能發生的延遲, 並協調當控制權轉至 機場時, 其他 ATC 單位也會注意到該航班的油量狀態. 4.3.7.2.3 The pilot-in-command shall declare a situation of fuel emergency by broadcasting MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY, FUEL, when the calculated usable fuel predicted to be available upon landing at the nearest aerodrome where a safe landing can be made is less than the planned final reserve fuel. 當降落在可安全降落的最近機場時, 計算出的預期可用油量 會低於計畫最低保留油量時, 機長應透過廣播 MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY, FUEL 宣告燃油緊急狀態 Note 1.— The planned final reserve fuel refers to the value calculated in 4.3.6.3 e) 1) or 2) and is the minimum amount of fuel required upon landing at any aerodrome. 計畫最低保留油量請參考 4.3.6.3 e 1) 或 2) 定義. 且為降落在任何機場的最低所需油量. Note 2.— The words “MAYDAY FUEL” describe the nature of the distress conditions as required in Annex 10, Volume II, 5.3.2.1, b) 3. "MAYDAY FUEL" 陳述了由 Annex 10, Volume II 5.3.2.1 b)3 定義的危急狀態. Note 3.— Guidance on procedures for in-flight fuel management are contained in the Fuel Planning Manual (Doc 9976). 在燃油計畫手冊(Doc 9976)包含了針對飛航燃油管理的指導. /* end of reference */ 一般 final reserve fuel 應該是 30min 的油量. 以 MAYDAY FUEL 的發生條件來看, 除非電腦計算有問題, 否則根本不會有在降落後, MAYDAY 條件解除的可能. 因為 MAYDAY FUEL 就已經闡明 "當降落最近機場後, 預期所剩油量將低於 30min 油量" -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 118.165.45.247 ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Aviation/M.1439140211.A.978.html

08/10 01:12, , 1F
最後一句話突破盲點了?
08/10 01:12, 1F

08/10 01:13, , 2F
這解釋我懂了 油量是不可逆的自然不存在取消之可能?
08/10 01:13, 2F

08/10 01:13, , 3F
簡單就是說你都喊了 代表油不夠
08/10 01:13, 3F

08/10 01:13, , 4F
怎麼落地後油就變多了取消
08/10 01:13, 4F

08/10 01:22, , 5F
這起狀況應該就是 MINIMUM FUEL .. 航向 KHH 有可能導致
08/10 01:22, 5F

08/10 01:22, , 6F
MAYDAY FUEL
08/10 01:22, 6F

08/10 02:01, , 7F
一種詐胡的概念
08/10 02:01, 7F

08/10 02:10, , 8F
Bingo fuel?
08/10 02:10, 8F

08/10 02:11, , 9F
所以BR189太早喊了,如果多繞幾圈就可以順理成章說油不夠
08/10 02:11, 9F

08/10 02:12, , 10F
樓上不管有無早晚喊 重點在後面怎麼可能取消 XD
08/10 02:12, 10F

08/10 04:58, , 11F
我比較好奇這件事飛安會到底能不能拔黑盒子去聽駕駛
08/10 04:58, 11F

08/10 04:58, , 12F
艙內到底在搞什麼鬼
08/10 04:58, 12F

08/10 05:09, , 13F
問題是喊之前TPE不收 那他還算最近的可降落機場嗎?
08/10 05:09, 13F

08/10 05:10, , 14F
喊之前的最近機場應該要用別的算 是喊了後才變TPE的
08/10 05:10, 14F

08/10 05:14, , 15F
所以新聞裡面的"喊MAYDAY是降落TPE的必要程序"還滿合理的
08/10 05:14, 15F

08/10 05:32, , 16F
你在說什麼? 他飛HKG或OKA才可以喊,闖TPE是沒資格的
08/10 05:32, 16F

08/10 05:34, , 17F
他喊只是為了逼TPE給他降,事實上油是夠去OKA的
08/10 05:34, 17F

08/10 06:08, , 18F
邏輯是 TPE不收>>(打算)改飛其他機場>>新航程達到MAYDAY
08/10 06:08, 18F

08/10 06:10, , 19F
的條件>>來喊吧>>TPE肯收了>>降TPE條件又消除了 不過沒差
08/10 06:10, 19F

08/10 06:12, , 20F
是一個喊了會沒事 不喊會有事的概念...
08/10 06:12, 20F

08/10 06:19, , 21F
那麼愛盤旋燒油卻又怪東怪西,第一時間去HKG、OKA會
08/10 06:19, 21F

08/10 06:19, , 22F
飛不到?還是公司有淺規則,機上人命幾百條是完全無
08/10 06:19, 22F

08/10 06:19, , 23F
視嘛?
08/10 06:19, 23F

08/10 06:20, , 24F
CAA如果不好好辦這案子的話,以後會更亂。
08/10 06:20, 24F

08/10 06:44, , 25F
有人還是沒看懂,他沒飛去KHH或OKA為何要喊
08/10 06:44, 25F

08/10 06:47, , 26F
要喊,也是喊KHH/OKA/HKG,絕對不是喊TPE
08/10 06:47, 26F

08/10 06:52, , 27F
08/10 06:52, 27F

08/10 06:53, , 28F
那天的情況是這樣子嗎?TSA試了兩次落不下去,在桃園上
08/10 06:53, 28F

08/10 06:54, , 29F
空盤旋準備再降TSA,這時候TPE因機坪已滿不開放轉降,
08/10 06:54, 29F

08/10 06:55, , 30F
BR189還是持續在桃園上空盤旋,然後就是後面發生的事
08/10 06:55, 30F

08/10 06:57, , 31F
公司總經理會飛就是不一樣!
08/10 06:57, 31F

08/10 06:58, , 32F
為什麼要一直盤旋,是等著排隊降TSA?還是? 為什麼不能
08/10 06:58, 32F

08/10 07:00, , 33F
先去轉降KHH、OKA、HKG,是有什麼難言之隱?
08/10 07:00, 33F

08/10 07:02, , 34F
張國煒不是董事長嗎?
08/10 07:02, 34F

08/10 07:03, , 35F
還是現任長榮航空總經理也有機師執照?鄭傳義
08/10 07:03, 35F

08/10 07:48, , 36F
Cityport! 請去讀書再來討論好嗎?實在看不下去了!
08/10 07:48, 36F

08/10 07:54, , 37F
公關好兇,我好怕
08/10 07:54, 37F

08/10 07:56, , 38F
我不是公關!是你專業度不足,別亂戰別人
08/10 07:56, 38F

08/10 07:57, , 39F
錯過去琉球的時間是事實 為何錯過 BR必須說清楚 不過
08/10 07:57, 39F

08/10 07:57, , 40F
我想最後也只會說是教官的問題 皇城之內不能傷和氣啊
08/10 07:57, 40F

08/10 07:57, , 41F
要是CI出這問題 八卦早滿天飛
08/10 07:57, 41F

08/10 10:28, , 42F
看不下去的是我們吧... 扯的太好笑了。
08/10 10:28, 42F

08/10 11:13, , 43F
幸好本人不在呆丸,不怕公關查水表
08/10 11:13, 43F

08/10 11:15, , 44F
長膿的行為大家都看不下去了,護衛隊的行為更是難看
08/10 11:15, 44F

08/10 11:17, , 45F
我的論點跟板眾有差很多嗎? 原來板眾專業度都不足
08/10 11:17, 45F

08/10 11:18, , 46F
大概就BR不會錯的人最專業了
08/10 11:18, 46F

08/10 11:30, , 47F
大MAYDAY世代 以後先喊先贏
08/10 11:30, 47F

08/10 13:56, , 48F
ta讀過什麼書,分享一下,願聞其詳
08/10 13:56, 48F

08/10 13:56, , 49F
因為落地後獲得獎勵油料,所以就可以取消五月天啦!
08/10 13:56, 49F

08/10 13:57, , 50F
既然請別人去讀書想必也讀了不少呢
08/10 13:57, 50F

08/10 14:29, , 51F
ya mayday好好笑
08/10 14:29, 51F

08/10 17:37, , 52F
落地後獲得獎勵油料XD
08/10 17:37, 52F

08/10 18:05, , 53F
cityport你得到他了,詐胡無誤啊>
08/10 18:05, 53F
文章代碼(AID): #1Lnubpbu (Aviation)
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