Re: [新聞] Slayers解散算是預期中的事吧...只是真的解散了還是覺得很難過

看板StarCraft作者 (小羊)時間11年前 (2012/10/17 22:09), 編輯推噓77(77推 0噓 41→)
留言118則, 63人參與, 最新討論串3/6 (看更多)
TL那篇的第8頁有人翻譯成英文了，我再簡單翻成中文一下XD Current Situation 現況 - MMA and Alicia have been demoted to B-team. MMA 跟 Alicia 都被降到B-team了 - Because of recent events surrounding Alicia, he will also be released (have not been told yet) 因為最近的Alicia事件，他會被放掉~~~(不過還沒告訴他) - Ryung is currently practicing at home. Yugioh originally also practiced at home and only practiced in the team house time to time. Ryung現在都在家練習。Yugioh本來就是在家練習，只有偶爾去宿舍練 - Crank didn't leave but has been released. Crank沒有離開不過已經到別隊了 (去了個新成立的外國戰隊Axiom) - Time was given to Puzzle, Coca and Min to think about their career and they have now switched to League of Legends 給了時間讓Puzzle, Coca 跟 Min考慮自己的職業未來，他們現在轉去打LOL了…(驚！) - Wanted to give up entering GSTL as half the main players are gone and even many players who were still bound by a contract refused to play. But remaining players were eager to play so still entered. We knew it was near impossible to win but we entered to give players experiences that they wanted. And this bonded the remaining players. 想要放棄GSTL，因為半數隊員都離開了，另外有些有合約的也拒絕去打。 不過另外剩下的人還是很想打所以還是會參加。我們知道沒什麼可能會羸， 不過參加比賽會可以讓選手吸收經驗而且他們也想打。這也能讓剩下的隊員 團結起來。 - Excluding the three players who wanted time off to consider their career, we entered the team with 4 B-team players and 4 A-team players. We excluded Alicia who avoided entering GSTL from the last season. 除了以上3位要求一些時間來考慮自己未來的隊員(Puzzle他們)，我們剩下4位B-team 隊員跟4位A-team隊員來參加GSTL。沒有包括Alicia因為他上季不想打。 The reason why Boxer joined SKT - We need to talk about how SlayerS started 首先講一下SlayerS是怎麼成立的 - Federation and SlayerS didn't get along from the start. We had Intel as the main sponsor and started off being the wealthiest team. That's when the federation wanted us to join but we weren't sure about what their goals and what they were after so told the federation that we will decide to join when we observe surrounding situations. That's when GanZi incident happened SlayerS跟由其他戰隊組成的e-Sports Federation從一開始就不太合得來。我們 有Intel當主要贊助商所以一開始就是最富有的隊伍。那時候Federation想要我們 加入，但因為我們不清楚他們的目標跟追求的是什麼，所以我們告訴他們需要看看 大環境如何再考慮。那時就發生了GanZi事件 Ganzi incident - At the time, Ganzi was in team IM. Ganzi told Knight_Seal (SlayerS coach) that he was interested in joining Slayers. Both me (Jessica) and BoxeR had no idea. 那時Ganzi原本在IM戰隊。Ganzi跟SlayerS的教練Knigt_Seal說想要加入， 我(Jessica)跟包哥都不知道。 - IM told the federation and accused that SlayerS tried to steal one of their players and GanZi had been spreading bad rumours about IM. GanZi had 6 months ban from entering GSL so he was about to quit as a pro gamer IM跟federation投訴說SlayerS想要挖角，然後Ganzi到處講一些IM的壞話。Ganzi被 禁賽GSL 6個月，他都想要退役不當選手了。 - Because we were never stealing GanZi, we helped GanZi to get to the bottom of this to clear out misunderstandings 因為我們不是故意想要挖Ganzi過來，我們就幫Ganzi澄清了這些誤會 - After talking to many other players including MVP and coaches/directors who were part of the federation, all evidences collected suggested that GanZi was innocent. IM coach (Mr Gang) couldn't argue about anything so only snuck out of the situation by saying 'This was my understanding, GanZi - if you wanted to move why didn't you tell me personally?' 在跟很多屬於Federation的其他選手，包括MVP，還有教練/領隊們談過後，我們 得到了很多可以證明GanZi是無辜的證據。IM戰隊的教練無法反駁，最後只能偷偷 和諧掉說"那是我的理解。GanZi如果你想換隊的話為什麼不私下跟我說？" - SlayerS wes the second victim of this incident as the majority of people believed that we were stealing a player but nobody, including Mr Kang, apologized for anything. We lost our faith in the federation who does not seem to listen to both sides of the story and make a decision based on assumptions. SlayerS是這件事的第二受害人，因為大部份人都覺得我們故意去挖別戰隊的人， 但事後都沒人跟我們道歉。我們失去協會的信任，而協會也沒有去把兩方不同 的說法都了解清楚，只用自己的假設來下決定。 - After this incident we dropped our thoughts of joining in. There were no appealing reasons for us to join. But another event hit the federation - TSL coach Mr Lee 這次事件後我們就不打算加入協會了，沒有吸引我們加入的原因。然後另一個事件 又發生了 -- TSL教練Mr Lee NASL incident NASL事件 - NASL season 1 had started and many players including BoxeR were preparing to depart the country. Then Mr Won (Startale coach) contacted us that 'NASL is not paying flights for Korean players only, we should not participate in NASL with this sort of discrimination.' he hoped that SlayerS boycotts the tournament. However we were already ready for everything including flights and hotel accomodation as our sponsor paid to play. NASL第一季開始，很多選手(包括包哥)都準備離開國家去參賽。Startale的教練 Won先生跟我們說NASL單單不會幫韓國選手付機票錢而已，我們不應該參加NASL， 因為他們歧視我們。Won先生希望我們可以杯葛NASL。但我們已經準備好了所以事 情，贊助商也有幫忙付機票跟住宿的錢 - He claimed that all other teams will be boycotting but they all ended up participating anyway and Puma won the whole tournament. Won先生聲稱所有其他隊伍都會杯葛NASL，但結果他們還是有去打，而且Puma羸下 了總冠軍 - As NASL season 2 began, Mr Won once again asked us to boycott and we wanted to boycott this time. So we told Mr Won that if this boycott will help to reach a beneficial agreement between NASL and the federation, we will surely join boycotting. 到了NASL第二季，Won先生又再一次叫我們杯葛這比賽，而這次我們也想要這麼做。 所以我們跟Won先生說如果這杯葛行動可以讓NASL跟協會達到更好的共識，我們就 會參加 - Mr Won promised us that both GomTV and the federation will claim their rights. However we heard nothing about this incident after. We asked Mr Won if there had been conversations between two parties, such as e-mails, but Mr Won said there wasn't anything like that/ Won先生答應我們GomTV跟協會都會利用這次行動來爭取自己的權益。但事後 我們沒有收到任何消息。我們問Won先生雙方是不是有談過，例如e-mail，不 過Won先生說都沒有 - We understood NASL's position about needing deposits as many players who already disqualfied for the main stage avoid or ditch remaining matches. NASL season 3 started and because there were no attempts communicate from the federation and NASL. We entered season 3. 我們明白NASL需要押金的立場，因為很多沒能晉級的選手會直接放棄剩下的比賽。 然後NASL第三季要開打了，因為協會跟NASL似乎沒有要談判，所以我們參加了 - Total 8 players made through the qualifiers, and that's when Mr Choi (MVP coach) contacted us. He expressed his regrets about us playing in NASL and mentioned that FXO entered for the qualifiers but dropped the thoughts immediately. He asked me to drop the 8 players from participating. I explained to Mr Choi that I only agreed to boycott season 2 as Mr Won promised me to show results or at least attempts to communicate to reach an agreement with NASL but have heard nothing from him. I explained the whole surrounding situations and asked him to tell other team coaches of the federation who do not know the situation but weirdly enough nothing was communicated between them. 總共有8位選手晉級，這時候MVP的教練Choi先生來接觸我們。他對於我們參加 NASL感到很遺憾，然後提到FXO戰隊也放棄了參賽。他希望我們這8位選手也放 棄比賽。我跟Choi先生解釋說第二季我同意了要杯葛，因為Won先生答應會跟 NASL談判，但結果什麼消息都沒有。我跟他講了這情況，也希望他可以告訴其 他不知情但又沒有互通消息的戰隊 - Even Mr Won who could have told other teams about how we thought, and when I asked him why he didn't communicate that to the federation. He claimed that he doesn't remember the conversation clearly that he didn't want to communicate something uncertain. I thought the federation was an absurd group. 其實Won先生也可以幫忙把我們的想法告訴別的戰隊，但當我問他為什麼沒有這樣 做的時候，他說他不是很清楚記得我們的對話內容所以不想亂講。我覺得這協會 實在是太不合理了 - We have heard from other players from different teams, that they were told not to practise with SlayerS players and not even chat on ladder. Players who were good friends with each other had to use a different account to secretly help our players to practise. When I heard about this, I asked Mr Won and argued however he said confidently "it's petty but this is how far we will go to put restrictions on SlayerS' 我們從別的戰隊的選手處聽說，有人叫他們不要跟SlayerS戰隊的人練習，就算在 天梯上遇到也不能講話。有一些本來是好朋友的選手只能開分身帳號來私下幫我們 的隊員練習。當我聽到這消息時我找Won先生投訴，不過他很自信的說"雖然這樣做 氣量很小，不過為了抵制SlayerS我們也在所不惜" - When I answered, that is ridiculous as we had not done anything wrong and this is destroying players personal friendship. And Mr Won simply replied 'this happens because you refused to join the federation and go on separate ways'. I made several claims to the federation but nobody answered me and players couldn't find practise partners. 我回答說這太荒謬了因為我們什麼都沒做錯，這樣做會破壞選手之間的友誼。Won先生 只回答說"這樣的事情會發生是因為你拒絕加入協會，自己走上別的路" 我跟協會 投訴了幾次，不過沒有人回應我，隊員們也找不到練習的對象 - As I couldn't take this any longer, I phoned Mr Won and told "I don't want our players to have unfair disadvantages because of their team. I will disband the team so take our players to your team. However we will formally request you (the federation) to be liable for damages you caused to the team and our sponsors." And that is when we have finally gotten an e-mail saying that they will lift up the restriction. (Have shown it to the reporter who wrote this) 因為我再也忍受不下去，我打給Won先生說"我不想我的隊員們因為戰隊而處於不 公平又不利的位置，我會解散我的戰隊，你們把我們的隊員要走吧。不過我們 會正式地要求你們 (協會) 負責我們跟贊助商的損失" 這時我們終於收到協會 的e-mail說他們會停止對我們的抵制 (這e-mail有給寫這文章的人看過) - But a former OGS player (who is now in a foreign team) told me that though the restriction was lifted, they still instructed players not to practise with SlayerS informally. 不過一個前OGS的隊員(現在去了國外戰隊的)告訴我雖然表面上說抵制取消了， 他們私下還是叫選手不要跟SlayerS的人練習 - This is the worst peak between SlayerS and other teams. Then they contacted us just before the eSports SC2 vision event. They wanted SlayerS to be the part of it. They have put restrictions on us because they didn't like how we were operating the team now they needed the BoxeR to be the significant figure. I have found what they were doing disgusting as they don't seem to have a sense of guilt. So I refused. They have never apologized me and I kept asking Mr Won whether the restriction has been lifted and he affirmed that there were no restrictions. But many players still told me that they were being instructed by the coach not to help us. I didn't even know who was telling the truth at this point.. I also was sad that players followed that instruction. But our players have been always helping other players from the team whenever they ask, this can be seen from their interviews. 這是SlayerS跟其他戰隊關係最差的時候。然後在eSports SC2 vision活動前他們 才聯絡我們說希望我們參加。他們抵制我們是因為不喜歡我們的運作方式，但現在 他們需要包哥來當活動的亮點。我覺得他們實在太噁心了，因為他們看起來一點 愧疚感都沒有。所以我拒絕了。他們從來沒跟我道歉過，而我一直問Won先生抵制 到底停止了沒有他裹一直跟我確認說沒有任何抵制的行為。不過很多選手還是跟我 說教練吩咐他們不要跟SlayerS練習。我當時都不知道誰講的才是真的了…我也為了 選手們都聽教練話感到很難過。不過我們的隊員還是常常在別隊選手要求時幫助他 們練習，這從他們的訪問可以看到 - Sleep, who is not in any team right now, is suffering the same. Just because he is staying in our team house. As of now, it is still happening. Mr Won claims that the restriction have been lifted and if he wants to dispute what I am claiming now - do so formally. He won't be able to deny as we have a player who used to be part of the federation. 目前沒有加入任何戰隊的Sleep也受到一樣的對待，只因為他住在我們的宿舍裡。 現在這情況還是持續著，Won先生聲稱已經沒有抵制，如果他想要反駁我的話， 請官方地/正式地這麼做。他沒辦法反駁的，因為我們其中一位隊員曾經是協會 裡的人。 MMA incident - We had a manager(initial J) who took care of our relationship with overseas partners/fans. J focused on working with the images BoxeR had. He was not a good friend with MMA to begin with but since MMA started to perform well, he always came to the studio when MMA played. - He wanted to look after SlayerS official Facebook page and Twitter to communicate with foreign fans more. As he started that, that's when we promoted him to a manager position where he also took care of overseas partners. He also took care of negotiations between two of our sponsors with an extension. - He kept reporting me that our demands and their demands never seem to meet. I asked myself 'why are the sponsors doing this to us now when we are performing better?' after reading what they were offering. So I gave up on the extension. - That's when the problems rose, I was sure that I could run and manage the team without a sponsor so I decided to operate the team as we've been and planned to seek out for a new sponsor in the future. But I have noticed a weird atmosphere among players and manager J acted suspiciously. Turns out manager J was lying to me about what he was telling sponsors and he told players that I have embezzeled money and goods using reputations of the team and the players. Everyone knew that BoxeR was spending his own money to run the team and I don't know how players believed the manager who joined the team 2 months ago. 懶人包：有個叫 J 的經理，是負責跟國外拉關係拉贊助的，他都跟我說跟國外的 贊助商談不攏。我覺得就算沒贊助我也可以讓戰隊好好的運作下去，所以就覺得 不再去拉贊助了，等將來有機會再找吧。但那時隊員之間的氣氛變得怪怪的，J的 行為也很可疑，原來贊助的事J都對我說謊，他還跟其他隊員說是我利用隊員的名聲 把贊助的錢跟物資都A走。大家都知道包哥是自己貼錢來搞戰隊，但不知道為什麼隊 員們都寧願相信這個才加入2個月的經理 - MMA firmly believed that I have embezzled his money from the personal sponsor and I was very disappointed. I cared every single one of them sincerely and loved them but they believed the manager... I can't remember how long I cried. J manager offered players behind my back to form a new team with him that he could get more sponsors than I did. MMA did not confirm anything with any means and accepted that offer which he confessed me later. - More shocking thing was that no players told me about this. I was going to formally sue the manager but I couldn't because I didn't want to disturb young players with a court case. If I had never found about this.. then players would have left the team without knowing.. That's when I lost my faith in MMA - MMA and others, who often participated in a foriegn tournament, claimed that whenever he says hell to other players from the federation, they would ignore him and that they kept mocking SlayerS and themselves. MMA, Alicia, Crank and GanZi have all told me the same thing. And this was the cover-up reason he told others and the medias MMA堅信我A走了贊助他的錢，我感到非常失望(哭哭)。經理J私底下遊說隊員們去 組一隊新的戰隊，還說他可以拉到更多贊助。MMA居然答應了(崩潰)。更崩潰的是 完全沒有隊員跟我說這件事。我本來想要告下去但不想影響到年輕的隊員們所以沒 有這麼做，這時候我對MMA失去信任了。MMA跟其他有去國外打比賽的隊員都說當他 們跟其他戰隊的人打招呼時大家都不理他們，而且還會取笑他們跟SlayerS。MMA在 跟其他媒體交待時就是用這個當借口 - The reason why MMA got demoted was not that. I have explained why he was being bullied and mocked and got him comprehended. That's when Crank and MMA hung around alot after that. Crank visited me and complained that the team atmosphere was so bad, he felt pressured and stressed. That's when I asked BoxeR, who at the time was resting to sort out his shoulder problem, to stay in the team house and look after them. - However, Crank complained once again that talking to the coach and BoxeR's presence did not make any difference and asked me what I actually did. I felt very sorry to him. My player is complaining and all I did didn't help him.. - Crank told me that because his neck is sore, he needed to rest. This was right before GSTL quarter finals. He said as he finished preparing for his game and he can pratise that only. I asked Cella if it's ok for him to go home and Cella told me that he has got his build order prepared for a map so he may go home. 不過這不是MMA被降到B隊的原因。我有跟MMA解釋說為什麼他會被孤立他也明白了， 然後這時他跟Crank就變成好朋友了。Crank跟我抱怨說隊員們的氣氛很差，他覺得 很有壓力，這時我就叫在為了肩患休養的包哥回去宿命住。不過Crank還是抱怨說 跟教練談/包哥回來住都沒用，後來GSTL準決賽時他就說他脖子酸痛需要休息。他說 他有準備好戰術了，所以Cella也同意讓Crank回家休養。 - That weekend, he texted me requesting to be removed from the entry. Because he seemed so ill, I talked to him on messenger to see if he was ok. He didn't answer so I left a message saying 'Rest well physically and mentally peacefully and see you at the stadium'. He then texted Cella 'what is she doing this to me?' .. I don't know what I did - That's when Cella told me that he wanted to quit and is not practising at home. He wanted to quit and rest and he has no intention of moving to another team so he begged me to release him from the contract. I had no intention of holding his back and I agreed that he wanted to rest so I let him go. - But.. I was told by others that he is streaming and looking for a foreign team. So I asked him why he had to lie and what his unprofessional attitutes are for. I asked him if he knew why MMA wanted to leave the team. He answered 'it's because of me - when I told MMA that I want to move to another team because of the team atmosphere, MMA wanted to join me'. I asked MMA whether it was true and he denied. 那周末他傳簡訊跟我說想要退賽，因為他好像病重所以我想用MSN跟他談看他怎麼樣。 他沒有回我所以我留言叫他多休息，結果他跟Cella說"為什麼她要這樣對我"…我不知 道我是做了什麼。這時Cella跟我說Crank想退役休養，還保證他沒有要加入別隊的意 圖所以希望我可以跟他解約。我沒有要綁住他所以同意了如果他要休息就讓他離開。 結果其他人告訴我Crank有在開直播，還在找國外的戰隊，所以我問他為什麼要說謊， 也問他知不知道MMA想要離隊。他說那是因為我，我跟MMA說我想要加入別隊，MMA也 想跟我一起跳槽。我問MMA說是不是真的，他否認了 - Recently, Crank rang me and screamed 'why are you relating me with Ganzi, Alicia and MMA's problem? do you want to ruin my progamer life?' I lost my words. I knew he wasn't happy with me and the team. But I asked 'Do you know where you are yelling at? I have looked after you and cared for you as the team owner and the manager for years'.. but he yelled back saying 'who do you think you are? where are you yelling at?'. Boxer who was right next to me got the phone off me after listening to him, but then he also yelled at BoxeR saying 'what were you doing during all this?' and then claimed that he will only play SC2 for this year and he just wanted to enjoy the game and that's why he left the team. I have this on recording and I will see what he does in the future. (T/N : I am sure that Crank can get into a trouble if he enters into another team as he lied to get out of the contract) 最近Crank打給我怒吼說為什麼你要把我跟Ganzi, Alicia和MMA的問題扯在一起？你 是不是想破壞我的職務生涯？我都不知道要說什麼了。在我旁邊的包哥把電話接過去 不過Crank還是一樣對他發火"這一切發生時你到底在做什麼"，還說他SC2只玩到今年 了他只想開心地玩遊戲所以他離隊。我有把這段錄音了，如果Crank將來要加入別隊 那他就有麻煩了 - BoxeR spent all his time and more than one hundred million(won) to grow the team and when players are mocking me and him, he was very shocked. Although we were in the GSTL finals, the atmosphere was the worst. I had to make a decision on Crank and MMA, who were affecting the team atmosphere, so I sent MMA back home and removed crank. I wanted to notify MMA but he never came back to the team house over weekends and never helped anyone for GSTL. Because we couldn't tell MMA, BoxeR and I told Ganzi about this. Ganzi used to joke around with me but during the time he couldn't even make an eye contact with me. I asked him what the problem was as I have explained to him about everything as MMA problems progressed. - BoxeR told GanZi painfully that MMA is a cancer to this team at the moment and he wanted to GanZi to make the right decision. GanZi was very lost and he also told us that he will try to concentrate practising at home. - MMA came back the next day, he probably have heard his expulsion from A-team from Ganzi. He had already packed all his belongings. BoxeR called MMA and started to talk but MMA cut him off and said there are nothing to talk about. BoxeR told him MMA had been moved to B-Team and to return home, MMA simply said there was no need as he is leaving the team. - When BoxeR told him that he is still a SlayerS player who was bound by the contract, MMA claimed that it was not a contract but a slavery note. We have a clause determining the share of prize money, which already allows players to keep the majority, but we didn't even take our share of the prize money. We didn't write contracts to make money. When he called the contract a slavery note, I was simply lost. We had 5 players in total who had a contract including Ganzi and MMA. 包哥花了那麼多時間跟金錢在這隊伍上結果隊員這樣對我們，他覺得很震驚。雖 然我們還在GSTL裡不過隊裡氣氛差到不能再差了。我需要對Crank跟MMA的去留做 決定，因為他們影響了隊上的氣氛，所以我讓MMA回家然後讓Crank離隊了。後來 跟GanZi交待這件事，他覺得很混亂不過他說會盡力在家專心練習。第二天MMA回 來了，大概是從GanZi那得知自己被降到B-team。他都收拾好自己的東西了，包哥 想要跟MMA談，結果MMA打斷包哥說沒什麼好談的了。包哥跟他說他被降到B-team 然後要回家住，不過MMA說不需要了因為他要離隊。當包哥跟MMA說他還是隊員而且 有合約在身時，MMA說那不是合約而是奴隸的賣身契。我們有跟隊員協議好獎金的 分配，讓他們留下大部份的錢，我們甚至自己沒拿錢。所以當他這麼說的時候我 覺得很驚訝，連GanZi和MMA在內我們總共跟5個隊員有合約。 ※ 引述《Woorissica (包子臉)》之銘言： : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376041 : http://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news/?news=48785 : Slayers在11月9號跟MVP戰隊的GSTL比賽後解散 : 韓文來源內還有佳妍姐的聲明以及Slayers的一些狀況說明 : 包括包哥離隊加入SKT1,阿勇事件,MMA事件還有NASL第一季的紛爭 : 更詳細的訊息只能等翻譯或韓文高手支援了 : Bye, Slayers. -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 183.178.116.58
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10/17 22:12, , 1F
MMA到底有多少掛= =
10/17 22:12, 1F
推
10/17 22:14, , 2F
原文說MMA相信包嫂汙錢的傳聞
10/17 22:14, 2F
推
10/17 22:14, , 3F
推翻譯
10/17 22:14, 3F
推
10/17 22:15, , 4F
整個很亂 應該說整個隊根本四分五裂 只是沒被暴開而已
10/17 22:15, 4F
推
10/17 22:16, , 5F
推翻譯 所以污錢有可能是真的!?
10/17 22:16, 5F
推
10/17 22:16, , 6F
要接手嗎? MMA的部份
10/17 22:16, 6F
推
10/17 22:16, , 7F
原來Slayers這麼顧人怨?
10/17 22:16, 7F
推
10/17 22:16, , 8F
韓國人自己搞自己人都受不了.....
10/17 22:16, 8F
推
10/17 22:16, , 9F
MMA要造反
10/17 22:16, 9F
推
10/17 22:16, , 10F
星海人生YO~~ 大大加油!! 剛好明天早上維修可以搭配著看
10/17 22:16, 10F
推
10/17 22:16, , 11F
唉
10/17 22:16, 11F
推
10/17 22:17, , 12F
slayers被孤立這邊我比較同情slayers
10/17 22:17, 12F
推
10/17 22:17, , 13F
星海Drama
10/17 22:17, 13F
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10/17 22:17, , 14F
星海人生XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
10/17 22:17, 14F
推
10/17 22:18, , 15F
推，怒等MMA，大大辛苦惹!
10/17 22:18, 15F
※ 編輯: hitsuji611 來自: 183.178.116.58 (10/17 22:54)
推
10/17 22:18, , 16F
為啥被孤立阿= = 人怕出名嗎
10/17 22:18, 16F
推
10/17 22:19, , 17F
如果這部分是真的 感覺ESF的手段有點粗糙
10/17 22:19, 17F
推
10/17 22:19, , 18F
先推
10/17 22:19, 18F
推
10/17 22:19, , 19F
這種事情本來就是羅生門 誰對誰錯我們不可能會知道的
10/17 22:19, 19F
推
10/17 22:19, , 20F
樓上看內文阿...
10/17 22:19, 20F
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10/17 22:19, , 21F
我是說Aggro
10/17 22:19, 21F
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10/17 22:19, , 22F
雙方一定都說自己很可憐都是對方的錯
10/17 22:19, 22F
推
10/17 22:19, , 23F
韓國人連自己韓國人也在搞 真的是可憐
10/17 22:19, 23F
推
10/17 22:19, , 24F
看了一下牛TV的翻譯，這不是解散主因
10/17 22:19, 24F
推
10/17 22:19, , 25F
推
10/17 22:19, 25F
推
10/17 22:20, , 26F
所以大家湊湊熱鬧看抓馬就好 XD
10/17 22:20, 26F
推
10/17 22:20, , 27F
ESF那個協會去年超多Drama 還有介入過TSL的營運
10/17 22:20, 27F
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10/17 22:20, , 28F
我有看 不過總覺得這樣就孤立很神奇= =
10/17 22:20, 28F
推
10/17 22:20, , 29F
結果不少人跑去LoL了XDD
10/17 22:20, 29F
推
10/17 22:21, , 30F
哇靠超抓馬 這根本可以拍八點檔了
10/17 22:21, 30F
推
10/17 22:21, , 31F
八卦量好大
10/17 22:21, 31F
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10/17 22:21, , 32F
電競人生
10/17 22:21, 32F
推
10/17 22:21, , 33F
比較想看MMA
10/17 22:21, 33F
推
10/17 22:22, , 34F
小羊推
10/17 22:22, 34F
推
10/17 22:23, , 35F
......超扯
10/17 22:23, 35F
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10/17 22:23, , 36F
IM戰隊連這樣也能針對 .......
10/17 22:23, 36F
推
10/17 22:23, , 37F
翻譯推
10/17 22:23, 37F
推
10/17 22:23, , 38F
小羊推~~
10/17 22:23, 38F
還有 40 則推文
→
10/17 22:34, , 79F
這篇正妹在哪
10/17 22:34, 79F
→
10/17 22:34, , 80F
八卦也是職業運動一環 很有趣 當然重要
10/17 22:34, 80F
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10/17 22:35, , 81F
沒吧 搞不好到時候又另一種說法
10/17 22:35, 81F
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10/17 22:35, , 82F
有實力不怕找不到NANIWA都有人要了
10/17 22:35, 82F
推
10/17 22:36, , 83F
StarTale的教練真是...
10/17 22:36, 83F
推
10/17 22:37, , 84F
TPA_COCA
10/17 22:37, 84F
推
10/17 22:39, , 85F
這抓馬太猛了 ... 不過去打LOL也是不錯的決定!!??
10/17 22:39, 85F
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10/17 22:39, , 86F
剛好S3要找滿六個，快上啊
10/17 22:39, 86F
推
10/17 22:42, , 87F
一下課回來看到這麼大的抓馬...
10/17 22:42, 87F
推
10/17 22:44, , 88F
這黑幕真多
10/17 22:44, 88F
推
10/17 22:44, , 89F
好一個劇場 才這麼一小段就精彩無比
10/17 22:44, 89F
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10/17 22:45, , 90F
今天真是個好日子
10/17 22:45, 90F
推
10/17 22:48, , 91F
看到Puzzle, Coca, Min去打LOL真讓人震驚@@!!!
10/17 22:48, 91F
推
10/17 22:49, , 92F
ST戰隊的教練氣量超小難怪怒奪十條老二
10/17 22:49, 92F
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10/17 22:51, , 93F
如果真的是這樣那我希望LIFE拿下第十亞 雖然我是Z粉
10/17 22:51, 93F
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10/17 22:51, , 94F
最好讓ST三年都拿不到半個冠軍= =
10/17 22:51, 94F
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10/17 22:52, , 95F
MVP:我知道你們教練的心理了喔 LIFE
10/17 22:52, 95F
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10/17 22:53, , 96F
聽一方在說而已 而且怎麼感覺所有人都誤會了金佳研?
10/17 22:53, 96F
推
10/17 22:55, , 97F
還好我賭盤是下打滿7場
10/17 22:55, 97F
推
10/17 22:59, , 98F
這內鬥的有點恐怖
10/17 22:59, 98F
推
10/17 23:12, , 99F
好黑暗的電競世界..隊伍之間還有排擠 小小小?
10/17 23:12, 99F
推
10/17 23:25, , 100F
只好推小羊了
10/17 23:25, 100F
推
10/17 23:41, , 101F
讚!!推推
10/17 23:41, 101F
推
10/18 00:27, , 102F
F91:這種順藤摸瓜的事情我最在行了
10/18 00:27, 102F
推
10/18 00:45, , 103F
單方面說詞不夠阿 我們需要另一邊的說法
10/18 00:45, 103F
推
10/18 00:55, , 104F
TPA_puzzle TPA_coca TPA-min
10/18 00:55, 104F
推
10/18 00:56, , 105F
拼圖跟Coca還沒確定吧 只有Min確定
10/18 00:56, 105F
推
10/18 01:15, , 106F
倒數那三行話，你老闆這樣跟你講，你會信？
10/18 01:15, 106F
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10/18 01:18, , 107F
說真的 倒數三行 就好比 我都自砍薪資 幹嘛還去貪汙一樣
10/18 01:18, 107F
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10/18 01:18, , 108F
但事實怎樣就不得而知
10/18 01:18, 108F
推
10/18 01:19, , 109F
如果MMA心裏打定你就是A錢 你證據拿出來他也不會信的
10/18 01:19, 109F
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10/18 01:19, , 110F
我也不覺得MMA他們這年紀看的懂這些證據..
10/18 01:19, 110F
推
10/18 01:24, , 111F
MMA不是24.25歲了....
10/18 01:24, 111F
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10/18 01:25, , 112F
但他25年的人生幾乎都在讀書跟打星海...
10/18 01:25, 112F
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10/18 01:26, , 113F
那些證據什麼的除非自己有碰過處理過不然一般人搞不懂很正常
10/18 01:26, 113F
推
10/18 01:29, , 114F
說真的這種證據你拿給3X歲的看都不一定看的懂
10/18 01:29, 114F
推
10/18 03:28, , 115F
包哥好可憐~~~
10/18 03:28, 115F
推
10/18 08:31, , 116F
推翻譯超辛苦!
10/18 08:31, 116F
推
10/18 10:25, , 117F
死忠支持包哥包嫂阿!!! 南韓人這內鬥比台灣還內行多了
10/18 10:25, 117F
推
10/18 14:15, , 118F
.....puzzle你去打lol.....
10/18 14:15, 118F
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