[文法] 文法請益

看板Eng-Class作者 (阿不拉的浣熊)時間10年前 (2014/05/12 12:33), 10年前編輯推噓3(3014)
留言17則, 6人參與, 最新討論串5/11 (看更多)
讀paper時讀到這段話: Overestimation is also possiple since women were not followed up until all had died. 如果直譯not....until 直到....才 語意會變得有點奇怪: 過度估計也是有可能的,因為女性直到全部死亡才被追蹤。 (死亡了就沒辦法追蹤了Orz) 所以想請問這句的語意是否為: 過度估計也是有可能的,因為並非所有的女性都追蹤到她們死亡。 (感覺比較合理,但從文法上推敲不出這個意思...) 有請各位高手解答Orz 段落原文如下: The RCT findings have limitations, including possible underestimation of overdiagnosis because some screening occurred in the control groups (in the Canadian National Breast Screening Study 1, 26.3% of the control group had at least 1 mammogram outside the study). Overestimation is also possible since women were not followed up until all had died, although in the recent update of the Canadian trials, excess cases still represented 22% of screening-detected cancers.The applicability of the RCTs to women undergoing mammography screening today in the United States is also uncertain. Because the Malmö trial screened women only every 18 to 24 months and used older, less sensitive mammography techniques, Welch and Passow used the Malmö estimate as a “lower bound” estimate of overdiagnosis risk. -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 140.112.212.234 ※ 文章網址: http://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Eng-Class/M.1399869210.A.535.html

05/12 14:22, , 1F
women (were not) (followed up until all had died) ,也可
05/12 14:22, 1F

05/12 14:22, , 2F
以這樣解讀
05/12 14:22, 2F

05/12 14:24, , 3F
感謝樓上 應該是這樣沒錯Orz
05/12 14:24, 3F

05/12 16:08, , 4F
但這樣解讀感覺好不合文法@@""
05/12 16:08, 4F

05/12 22:34, , 5F
在其它段落(一般會在後頭。如果這段是paper的開頭)應該
05/12 22:34, 5F

05/12 22:34, , 6F
會有進一步的說明。Google找不到這篇paper的內容,只有簡
05/12 22:34, 6F

05/12 22:34, , 7F
介(有提到MEDLINE?)。就你給的有限內容,我只能猜這裡的"
05/12 22:34, 7F

05/12 22:34, , 8F
women ... were followed up"是指如果他們對MEDLINE上找到
05/12 22:34, 8F

05/12 22:35, , 9F
的papers/reports/..裡頭提到的"當事(病)人"想再進一步知
05/12 22:35, 9F

05/12 22:35, , 10F
道/確認後續(比如)情況(換句話說不是光看papers/reports
05/12 22:35, 10F

05/12 22:35, , 11F
裡頭的內容),那麼那些他們要找的女性都已經去世了(畢竟他
05/12 22:35, 11F

05/12 22:35, , 12F
們是從1960年的資料開始查起),或是其它原因要等到她們去
05/12 22:35, 12F

05/12 22:35, , 13F
世了才「會」去找她們(的病例資料,比如)--總之要確認是
05/12 22:35, 13F

05/12 22:36, , 14F
"什麼"的話要看你沒提供的paper內容才能知道
05/12 22:36, 14F
這段是在描述overdiagnosis是怎麼樣的狀況 d大如果需要原文我可以mail給你~~ 基本上這個作者是用systemic review的方式,並沒有直接接觸研究對象, 所以並沒有follow up過長對象都去世的問題(1960年那是原文提到關於收集論文的範圍) 一般這類的obsservation research都是追蹤10~25年左右,我自己根據整篇文章上下文的 解讀,是overdiagnosis會被高估,因為有些女性沒有被完整的follow到她們死亡(over- diagnosis指的是追蹤對象被診斷出來的疾病其實是不需要治療的但是如果沒有完整追蹤到 個案死亡,可能會錯失其實是正確診斷的case,因此造成高估,這是我的理解。 我自己是覺得a大那樣的解讀是合乎文法的,不曉得有甚麼問題嗎@@? ※ 編輯: shanyanyu (140.112.212.234), 05/12/2014 23:48:59

05/13 00:03, , 15F
我覺得原po的詮釋比較合理喔
05/13 00:03, 15F

06/05 04:11, , 16F
因為死亡無法追蹤,所以有好長一段時間不知病情進展
06/05 04:11, 16F

06/05 04:12, , 17F
最後得知subject死亡,無法證實之前診斷是否正確
06/05 04:12, 17F
文章代碼(AID): #1JS4yQKr (Eng-Class)
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文章代碼(AID): #1JS4yQKr (Eng-Class)