Re: [文法] should作"竟然"時後面可否用完成式?
※ 引述《l10nel (小失)》之銘言：
: ※ 引述《lulu1993 (雨楓)》之銘言：
: : 在書上看到一個句子
: : "她竟然用那種方式跟你說話，真令人吃驚。聽起來好像她才是你的老闆。"
: : 書中附的翻譯是:
: : "It was astonishing that she should speak to you in that manner.
: : She sounded as if she were your boss."
: : 我覺得有點怪怪的，既然是過去發生的事情，那應該要說
: : "It was astonishing that she should have spoken to you in that manner."
: : 才對吧???是因為這裡不能用完成式嗎?還是我誤解了什麼呢??
: : 希望有對文法較了解的人能為我解惑> <
: : 感恩!!!
: 推 monkeywife:should+have p.p. 是另外一種句型 指應該XX 卻沒有XX 06/30 14:23
: → monkeywife:例如 You should have apologized to her. 你真應該 06/30 14:24
: → monkeywife:像她道歉(但實際上沒有做) 06/30 14:24
: 推 Widder8:我剛翻了一下文法書，看到了一個否定句子是用shouldn't + 06/30 14:25
: → Widder8:have + p.p.的：I was shocked that she shouldn't have 06/30 14:25
: → Widder8:invited Phyllis. 06/30 14:26
: → Widder8:不曉得是不是因為shouldn't invite Phyllis聽起來像是「你 06/30 14:27
: → Widder8: 她 06/30 14:29
: → Widder8:不應該邀請Phyllis」，故在否定時用了完成式。只有一個否 06/30 14:29
: → Widder8:定的例子，故只能暫時這樣推論，正確與否暫時無法得知 06/30 14:30
: → Widder8:參考看看：http://ppt.cc/6zhv 06/30 14:54
: 推 l10nel:should have spoken 也可，這時只表示那是過去發生過一次 06/30 16:09
: → l10nel:的事，不像 should speak 帶有現在/以後可能再發生的意味。 06/30 16:11
: → dunchee:www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/should 06/30 22:43
: → dunchee:-> 5 ... (第3個例句) 06/30 22:43
: → dunchee:"既然是過去發生的事情，那應該要說" -> 我有點好奇你沒 06/30 22:43
: → dunchee:有想到簡單過去式，反而是過去完成式的原因是？ 06/30 22:43
: → dunchee:這用法的"should"其實沒有時態上的變化(注意，我是單指字 06/30 22:44
: → dunchee:典上的 5 的這一個特定用法。其它用法你有興趣的話自己看 06/30 22:44
: → dunchee:一下)，且這時後的用法並不是subjunctive(你以為是過去完 06/30 22:44
: → dunchee:成式的理由？)(因為(意思上)確實有發生，並不是和事實相反 06/30 22:44
: → dunchee:)。如果你是因為發生在過去就要用過去完成，那麼你還要再 06/30 22:45
: → dunchee:查一下過去完成式的用法 06/30 22:45
: → Widder8:我想原po應該是跟to have done something這種表過去式的完 06/30 22:47
: → Widder8:成式搞混在一起了~ 06/30 22:47
: → dunchee:"....時後面可否用完成式?"-> 是有這用法，但是這不表示你 06/30 22:56
: → dunchee:可以任意拿來套用。參考: 06/30 22:56
: → dunchee:http://dunchee.blogspot.com/2011/10/temp.html 06/30 22:56
: 表「情緒性反應/評價」的情態助動詞 should （有文法書稱為 emotive should）常用在
: that 從句裡，主句的動詞點出說話者有什麼樣的情緒反應。
: 大致而言，從句的 should + V 的 V 發生時間若和主句動詞大約同時，用 should V；若
: 早於主句動詞，則用 should have V-pp。
: 從涵義來看，如果使用 should have V-pp，則強烈意味著該動作發生於過去且現在不
: 再持續，或說話者自認沒有該動作現在還繼續發生的證據。
: 主句動詞又有現在式和過去式之分，分別表示主句動詞（說話者的情緒性反應）發生在說
: 話當下或之前。
: 所以，視兩個動作發生時間不同，共產生四種組合。這種「竟然發生某事」的 should 可
: 以出現在四種組合裡，沒有所謂「should have V-pp」因為是「與過去事實相反」而不得
: 使用的道理。無論哪種組合，should 後的動作都確確實實發生了。
: 如果 should 後面有否定字 not，則是「竟然沒有發生某事」的意思，同樣可以有四種組
: 合，並不受限於 not。
: 以下是來自 americancorpus.org 語料庫的四種組合搜尋結果。（某一組合多列出兩個實
: 例，不表示該組合最常見。）
: (1) It is...that...should + V-infinitive
: Martinez Sierra in 1928, he includes the terminology of various literary
: genres. He speaks of " la condicion del narrador o del poeta, " of " los
: personajes novelescos " (Vision 236) and of Cervantes' attitude toward Don
: Quijote. 1 In fact, he considers the esperpento a genre in its own right, "
: el genero literario que yo bautizo con el hombre de esperpentos, " and he
: does not restrict esperpentismo to the world of literature: " Esta manera es
: ya definitiva en Goya " (Vision 237). ***It is curious that Sender should
: propose so limited a definition of the esperpento, for when he writes one of
: his own it is not an obra dialogada at all, but a short novel: Requiem por un
: campesino espanol (1960). 2 A close examination of this novel will show that
: it contains many of the characteristics of an esperpento. The most important
: ones are the presentation of a story and its characters from three different
: points of view, the centrality of Spanish history to the narrative, and the
: tyranny of traditional social
: Kuppers: " you know how pleased we all were (Arp included) with the portrait
: of him which I did. I was proud to put my sign (eL) on the print I gave to
: Arp, to get a block made (you know I do that very rarely). The block proofs
: have arrived: and on this particular proof there is no trace of eL, and on
: the photograph itself the eL has been neatly scratched out. What is this
: scratching out supposed to signify? " (n23) ***It is surprising that
: Lissitzky should ask himself this question, for he, perhaps more than any
: other artist of the time, should have been well aware of the avant-garde
: insignia's dual status as an abstract, modernist graphic and as a
: personalized logo. This is because he had encountered precisely this problem
: in his publicity work for the Pelikan office supply company. For the most
: part, this aspect of Lissitzky's career has been discussed solely from the
: vantage point of utility. Scandalized perhaps by the notion that an artist of
: Lissitzky's
: Tuptim's version of Uncle Tom's Cabin adds the " miracle " of snow to the
: miraculously frozen river sent by Buddha for Eliza's deliverance. The
: audience takes Tuptim's belief in snow as parallel to her belief in freedom:
: she has never seen either but trusts Anna's assertions that they exist. As
: the camera pans to the King leaning over to Anna, motioning his recognition
: of falling snow, the audience is assured that, even with the recalcitrant
: student, Anna's efforts have not been entirely in vain. # ***It is striking
: that snow should figure as a marker of Anna's progress in Siam. For the
: chances of nineteenth century Siamese seeing such a thing were rare indeed.
: Even if the Siamese could see or touch snow, their experience would be
: limited by this conundrum of the physical world: snow guarantees its own
: purity by disintegrating when touched. Its visibility marks the limits of its
: embodiment. # In a way, snow is an apt metaphor for the " miracle " of
: education. Knowledge is ephemeral and its exchange is never sure
: (and now of the East also), then we may be in a position to start again. We
: may then be in a position to come up with answers based on the evidence. They
: will be a good deal less simple, and much more multifarious, but that is what
: the real world is like. When we find that the real world is often more richly
: comic than any conclusion based on a theory can ever be, we may be in a
: position to appreciate the ironies in Jane Austen's remark that ***it is odd
: that history should be so dull, since a great deal of it must be invention'.
: # PHOTO (BLACK &; WHITE): Title-page of The English Gentleman, 1631, hoping
: in heaven but with feet fairly planted on the ground -- already a type'. #
: PHOTO (BLACK &; WHITE): Upward mobility? Hogarth's Industrious Prentice grows
: rich &; Sheriff of London'. # PHOTO (BLACK &; WHITE): The system that works
: so well' in Cruickshank's grinding machine for rotten boroughs of
: (2) It is...that... should have V-pp
: threatened by him must be accepted by the court, however contrary to the
: apparent facts of the case; and in both instances this is the result of
: casting aside general rules and examining each case on its contextual merits.
: # But the most shocking thing about feminist jurisprudence is how much
: evidence it provides for concluding that women are incapable of mastering the
: ideas and skills on which Western civilization rests. For abstractions,
: standards, distinctions, logic, and objectivity are of the essence of all our
: arts, sciences, and institutions. ***It is inconceivable that women should
: have wished so to disqualify themselves. Therefore, the movement must have
: been dreamt up by male chauvinists, determined to exclude women from
: everything but caring for hopeless invalids. Why else would the dean of the
: very eminent Law School at the University of Chicago describe feminist
: jurisprudence as the most interesting intellectual movement in quite some
: time''? # By SHIRLEY ROBIN LETWIN # # Mrs. Letwin is a legal and political
: theorist and the author of, among other books, The Pursuit of Certainty. #
: (1910), and the scores and recordings for two major one-act works, both based
: on Oscar Wilde plays, " A Florentine Tragedy " (1917) and " The Dwarf " later
: renamed " The Birthday of the Infanta " (1922). # I was surprised to find his
: style evolve away from the deep postromantic world and the later
: expressionism to simplicity and clarity. Since " Clothes Make People " is in
: the comic opera genre, a delightful piece, its lightness of musical style is
: to be expected. Yet ***it is fascinating that he should have composed it in
: 1910 when he was caught up in the Mahler idiom and about to compose his
: Second String Quartet, the most powerful of his four quartets, a masterful
: work in a single, unbroken movement. # The Lasalle Quartet's recording of the
: four Zemlinsky Quartets (DGG 2741 016) is recommended. # " A Florentine
: Tragedy " has a dramatic and emotional intensity as well as orchestral power
: that suggest Strauss but the style is quite different and in certain ways,
: more rhapsodic. The
: (3) It was...that...should + V-infinitive
: and that her doctor should encourage her to take the drugs. # " This was what
: every 50-plus woman should do to prevent the disease of aging, " Dr.
: Stefanick said. " They linked up a very beneficial product for treating
: menopausal symptoms to the answer for treating all of a woman's aging
: problems. " # Even when some observational studies indicated that estrogen,
: and more so the combination of estrogen and progestin, might increase the
: risk of breast cancer, doctors were not dissuaded. # " A lot of people
: thought ***it was outrageous that women should worry about breast cancer risk
: when the heart disease risk is so much higher, " Dr. Stefanick said. # Even
: as some scientists and advocates for women began arguing that at least there
: should be a more vigorous test of the estrogen hypothesis, it retained its
: power. # Dr. Stefanick said that when the new study was being planned,
: doctors and researchers said it was unethical because in the most rigorous
: studies, a group of women would be taking placebos. They would be denied the
: benefits of the
: . Though being a woman will have one advantage. You'llbe the first on at the
: airstrip, that's for sure. She nodded. She didn't know exactly what he meant
: and yet she felt to admit this would embarrass them both, so she filed the
: words away in her head: first on at the airstrip. The drink came to an end.
: The man smiled and then looked right at her for a single, long minute as
: though trying to memorize her face. I'll be fine, she said. ***It was odd
: that he should be so concerned. It made her nervous--not about him but about
: where she was, what she was doing. These were the earliest hours of the
: earliest days, long before bullets or chopper rides, before anythingat all.
: She said she'd be fine but she had no way of knowing if this would be the
: case. She hadn't really thought there could be any other outcome, until now.
: He took a deep breath. You're awfully young, he said, or maybe it's
: (4) It was...that...should have V-pp
: : "... all London society... needed the nervous relief of expressing emotion;
: for if Mr. Lincoln were not what they said he was -- what were they? " If
: Lincoln was not a nightmare, then they were supporters of slavery and
: treason. If Bush is not a monster, then British anti-warriors are supporters
: of dictatorship and mass murder. No wonder they were so excited. # # The
: terror-bombing of the Riyadh housing complex that killed 18 people, all
: Muslims, is not quite like the death of Leon Trotsky. ***It was terrible that
: Trotsky should have been murdered in such a grisly fashion -- yet he was as
: bloodthirsty and ignorant as Stalin, and hence no loss. The difference in the
: Riyadh case is that the victims were ordinary civilians. Nevertheless, Saudi
: Arabia's rulers have an opportunity, if they can tear themselves away from
: their indulgences, to contemplate first-hand what they have wrought over so
: many years. Perhaps self-interest will compel them to change in ways that
: decency is powerless to do. # # Car-bombs, possibly set by al-Qaeda,
: crew got off duty at various odd hours, depending on their section and
: individual re sponsibilities, and nearly everyone felt the urge to unwind in
: the lounge at one time or another. And whenever anyone stopped in for a drink
: and some conversation, Guinan seemed to be there -- standing at her usual
: place behind the bar, mixing drinks and distributing advice in small doses.
: Of course, that was only an appearance. Guinan slept like everybody else.
: Well, perhaps not exactly like everybody else. But she slept. So ***it was
: unusual that she should have been around during the pre- " dawn " shift when
: Pug Joseph swaggered into the lounge. He didn't look very healthy -- or very
: happy. There were faint dark circles under his eyes and a pallor to his skin
: that told Guinan he'd been drinking more than synthenol. She smiled and
: prepared herself. As she'd expected, he made his way to the farthest table
: from the bar -- a small set-up for two right by an observation port. When he
: pulled out a chair,
感謝各位熱烈的回應、推文與寄信:)
我跟110nel想法相似
認為should have p.p 不一定只能用在"之前應該如何 現在卻沒有"
只是一開始不是非常確定:)
很感謝Widder8熱心的上傳文法書的照片以及110nel熱心的找了這些文章
真的很謝謝Eng-class版版友們的熱情^^
再次感謝大家:)
--
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惟有輕輕地問一聲：「噢，你也在這裡？」
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