[情報] sivHD在reddit寫下英霸的評論
原文連結
https://www.reddit.com/r/
heroesofthestorm/comments/6amxa0/moba_chess_hots_warning_strong_opinions_insid
e/
I'm an ancient LoL Content Creator so most of you here probably dont know me,
but I have played HotS since day 1 & trust me when I say no one would like to
see something Fresh at the top of the Moba scene by now, and it saddened me ho
w HotS didn't reach its Colossal potential. I come with strong opinions about
what is wrong, why tons of people left, and what needs to change, many of you
will disagree but thats where conversation starts, many Gaming subreddit commu
nities are not open to talks about change but heres to hoping HotS is.
I'm here to talk about "Moba Chess", and make crappy analogies.
我是個老LoL內容製作者，所以在座的各位或許對我不熟，但在英霸的第一天我就加入了
，當我說沒人比我更想看到在目前的MOBA界有新鮮的東西加入時，請相信我。我覺得英霸
沒有達到它可以有的巨大成就，而這令我難過。接下來我要說的是我十分主觀的見解，為
何一堆人離開英霸、英霸有哪些地方需要改變。你們許多人會不同意我的見解，但至少這
個舉動會讓大家開始討論。Reddit的很多遊戲論壇並不是那麼的開放、容不下改變的聲音
，但我希望英霸的論壇是容許這樣的聲音的。
我來這想要說說關於「MOBA象棋」以及舉一些可能頗呵的爛比喻。
Moba Chess is what I like to call the basic Gameplay element that makes Mobas
fun; the unlimited amount of tactics that are possible. Heroes are Chesspieces
on the board, and its up to you to become the master strategist. It fuels the
entire game and makes the games fun, even when you are playing the same Hero
& Map for the 9999th time. You always have the freedom to make any choice you
want.
我把讓MOBA好玩的基本遊戲元素稱之為MOBA象棋；有著幾乎無限可能的戰略（策略）組合
。英雄腳色則是棋盤上的棋子，你（玩家）則是負責盡力成為一個戰略大師。上面所述的
是我覺得MOBA之所以會如此好玩的原因，即便你9999次玩同樣的英雄、同樣的地圖。你永
遠有發展不同可能性的自由。
Both in Moba and Chess, you make shlick tactical choices, partly based on the
equallyshlick濳actical choices of your opponent.
In HotS, that CORE of moba gameplay is under-represented.
It sees too much replacement from "Both you and your opponent must brawl at th
e forced, timed objective".糍hats no problem when you're learning one of the r
eally awesome Heroes (seriously, they are sick), but once you found your main
Hero the game becomes more stale over time since you cant infinitely study "Mo
ba Chess" with your favorite Hero as much as in other Mobas;糍he VERY FUN Obje
ctives that are defining HotS are restricting player creativity FAR MORE THAN
THEY NEED TO, and could easily be toned down.
在MOBA與象棋裡，你可以做出很屌的戰略，有部分可能依據敵隊所做出的一樣屌的戰略。
在英霸裡，那個MOBA的核心遊戲元素不足。
我認為「你們雙方強制必須在指定的時間、指定的戰場機制打架」太多了。如果你只是在
練習英霸裡的一隻超酷英雄（認真的，英霸的英雄真的超屌）這可能不是什麼問題，但當
你一直重複玩你的main角、而你又無法像其他MOBA遊戲只用一隻愛角無止盡的學習這個「
MOBA象棋」的時候，遊戲則開始覺得越來越漫長；英霸最有趣好玩、定位英霸的戰場機制
遠超過所需的限制了玩家創意，而這件事可以很容易的調低。
Imagine playing actual Chess but you are both forced to brawl it out on pre-se
t places, restricting your tactical freedom to make your moves. - Yeah, you ju
st ruined the point of chess;啱nstead of reacting to eachother, you are now bo
th reacting to the MAP, making every game on that map far more similar and far
less interesting than they could to be.
想像玩象棋的時候，你跟對手都被限制你的戰略空間，被指定在同一個地方打架 - 沒錯
，這種象棋根本沒有玩的意義；本來應該是回應對方的舉動，現在變成了回應地圖的舉動
，每次打同樣的地圖的時候遊戲變得越來越相似，也越來越沒有那麼好玩。
This problem also extends to why the E-sports side is underperforming & uninte
resting to watch,濳he teams are largely held back by forced objectives from ma
king their interesting/clever chess choices. Which is exactly what is normally
fun about watching E-sports. Last year I talked to some Pro Teams about it &
they agreed - which further cemented my opinion. We are watching the players r
eact to the map, instead of to eachothers moves. When I watch HotS esports, it
feels like my cousin making me watch Finding Nemo with him for the 54th time-
I have seen this movie by now.
這個問題也導致了英霸的電競不如預期、也不好看。隊伍們大部分都被這些強制的戰場機
制給限制住，無法做出有趣／巧妙的戰略選擇。而觀看電競有趣的通常是這些點。去年我
跟一些職業隊伍聊了這些，他們同意我的看法 - 所以我更肯定這些觀點無誤。我們看到
的是玩家對戰場機制做出反應，而不是對彼此做出反應。當我觀看英霸電競的時候，覺得
就像是我堂表兄弟姊妹要我看第54次的海底總動員一樣 - 我已經看過了。
Blizzard seems to have the mindset that forcing players to do a different thin
g on each map is good against staleness, but the "forced" part restricts the c
reativity that is a -much stronger force- against staleness.
I realise there will be certain amounts of嚒urvivorship Bias澵ince we are stil
l here playing/enjoying the game, but try not to overlook the people who left,
and focus on positive improvement, I care deeply about this game and would li
ke to see some talk.
暴雪似乎已經覺得強制玩家們在不同地圖上對應不同的戰場機制來對抗緩慢節奏的遊戲，
但「強制」限制了創意，而創意是個對抗緩慢節奏的遊戲更強的武器。
我覺得一定會有某些同溫層偏見，因為我們都在打英霸、享受英霸，但不要忘了那些離開
的人，讓我們一起專注在正向的進步，我真的很喜歡這個遊戲，也希望大家一同討論。
然後是我很喜歡的最多讚的留言
I see what you are trying to say, that contesting objectives makes tactical st
rategy in this game more stale due to how it forces team fights fairly regular
ly.
我懂你的意思，搶地圖機制的設計迫使團戰定時發生，讓整個遊戲的戰術變得僵化，
I would argue that's what keeps this game fun. In other mobas sure you have th
e freedom to move around all game but that never really encourages team fights
since you have people soaking for so long. What I find really interesting abo
ut heroes is you can decide how you want to contest objectives. You can go wit
h a poke soak strategy where your team soaks but has characters like ming or Z
arya who poke as abba super soaks lanes. Which gives your team an advantage to
team fight furture ones.
我反而認為這是這款遊戲好玩的地方。在其他 MOBA 裡，雖然你有到處跑來跑去的自由，
但遊戲的設計並不鼓勵團戰，因為大家都縮著猛吸經驗。我覺得英霸最有趣的地方是你可
以決定要用什麼樣的方式來搶得機制。你可以打 Poke 加 吸經驗的戰術，像是隊上有李
敏跟札莉雅不斷 Poke 騷擾，然後阿巴瑟窩在線上瘋狂吸經驗。讓你的隊伍在下一次團戰
中比敵隊更佔優勢。
Or if you want to go the tlv route and have them soak as your group of 4 goes
around and ganks.
你也可以用維京人戰術，由你自己來吸經驗，其他四個人到處 Gank。
Or you go with a sustain comp that out lasts your opponents. etc etc.
或是組一個高消耗能力的組合，慢慢磨贏你的對手。還有更多其他的戰術可用。
I guess the point I am trying to make is the tactical strategy is still there,
it just forces the teams to respond to an event. How they respond is still up
to the team. I think it creates more engaging games, and more tactical team f
ights, and less emphasis on laning.
Which in my opinion makes the game much more fun and engaging.
我想表達的意思，就是戰術依然是存在的，遊戲只是逼迫雙方對地圖事件作出反應，要怎
麼應對仍然操之在隊伍手中。我認為這會讓遊戲更引人入勝，更多戰術性的團戰，也更淡
化對線的比重。
在我的看法裡，這樣是讓遊戲更好玩更吸引人啦。
-----------------------------------------------------------
我覺得Siv發這樣的文章是善意的，但是我認為他可能真的沒有玩的太深入才會有這樣的
看法，就拿他說的地圖機制逼會戰這一點來說，其實很多時候機制真的不是太重要，他能
有效的幫助你拿塔沒錯，但是戰術的調度還是非常重要，什麼時候可以放，什麼時候去打
，都是需要團隊去討論的。
就拿HGC韓國L5對MVP某一場來說好了，MVP整場優勢，但是最後被L5全地圖飛的伊利丹一
人硬爆核心吞敗，就看的出來這遊戲其實有著非常多的可能性。
其實很多人說英霸簡單，但是其實英霸是一款易玩難精的遊戲，Siv這種名人，如果沒有
精通遊戲而繼續用LOL的觀念玩，或許這就是他認為不好玩的原因。
翻譯部分轉的是吧哈姆特
https://m.gamer.com.tw/forum/C.php?bsn=25199&snA=12316&bpage=1&keyword=&page=1
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※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/BlizzHeroes/M.1494595277.A.771.html
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