[新聞]Tesla安全聲明槓上NHTSA 兩邊都沒錯

看板car作者 (RaidenHC)時間4年前 (2019/08/11 00:55), 4年前編輯推噓13(16319)
留言38則, 24人參與, 4年前最新討論串1/2 (看更多)
富比士文章指出為何特斯拉跟美國國家公路交通安全局的雙方主張都沒錯 原文連結: https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2019/08/08/tesla-and-nhtsa-spar-ove r-tesla-safety-claims-theyre-both-right/#51b8b4110388 原文內容: Last October, the NHTSA, the federal agency that (among other things) does saf ety crash tests wrote a letter to Tesla, telling them not to say things like “Model 3 achieves the lowest probability of injury of any vehicle ever tested by NHTSA” and “But when a crash happens in real life, these test results sh ow that if you are driving a Tesla, you have the best chance of avoiding serio us injury.”? Car companies who do the tests have to follow regulations about how they express the results, and NHTSA says Tesla’s marketing breaks those r ules, and ordered them to stop. Tesla said they won’t stop — I’ll get into why they would be this defiant below. When NHTSA does a test, they slam a car into walls and barriers.? They calcula te a score based on, among other things, how the crash test dummies come out o f it. The Tesla Model 3 did indeed get the best score ever, and this is part o f why I bought mine. NHTSA doesn’t want Tesla saying those claims because it declares that the num bers can’t be compared between cars that are very different in weight.? That even if the test did indicate that you would do better in a Tesla Model 3 than any other car hitting a wall, this might not be true if your Tesla crashes in to a safely designed Hummer or even an unsafely designed transport truck. In boxing, they sometimes try to judge boxers on what they call a “pound for pound” comparison, trying to score them independently of their weight. Mostag ree that Sugar Ray Robinson was, pound-for-pound, a much better boxer than Mik e Tyson. But if you had to bet on one in a fight, you would probably bet on Ty son. Tesla notes that the Model 3 is heavy as cars go, and it is, because of its ba ttery pack, but it’s still not a truck. NHTSA is not saying the Tesla isn’t the safest car ever.? Rather, they are sa ying, because their tests can’t be used to compare cars of very different wei ght, they don’t have the answer to that question, and Tesla should not imply they have said this. They’re right, and probably have the legal authority to demand this. But Tesla’s score is very impressive, and very likely means t hat “pound for pound” it is the safest car made so far, and the safest of an y car, regardless of weight, in a crash against a stationary object. That’s s omething to be proud of. And while NHTSA says their scores are not approved to be compared between weight classes, that doesn’t mean that it might be possi ble to do so. So why would Tesla defy NHTSA on this, and not simply come up with more subtle ways to say their message? I have a cynical suspicion that they don’t mind a ll the press this battle has generated; you’re reading some of that press now . It’s a nice thing to see tons of press about the very fine points of how yo u define “safest car ever” and who can say what, because the main thingleft in the mind of the public is a very positive message for Tesla. 重點翻譯: NHTSA 的撞擊測試是用一面牆,然後根據撞擊的結果來算出一個分數。Model 3 的確拿到 了有史以來的最高分,那為什麼 NHTSA 不希望特斯拉主張 Model 3 是有史以來最安全的 車呢?因為實際車禍不會只是撞一面牆,有可能撞到一台安全性也高的悍馬,或是一台根 本不符合安全規定的改裝貨車,這都有可能讓 Model 3 撞擊結果不符合測試結果。 用拳擊來比喻的話,可能一個輕量級的選手擁有有史以來最好的數據,但對上一個數據稍 低的重量級選手,你可能還是想賭後者贏。 NHTSA 並沒有直接否認「Model 3 是有史以來最安全的車」這句話,而是說他們的分數不 能拿來比較重量差很大的不同車款,所以他們不希望特斯拉這樣比較。 但是特斯拉也沒錯,不管是跟同重量級的車比較,或是跟不同重量的車只比撞牆,Model 3 的確就是最安全的車。 作者另外還懷疑,特斯拉刻意繼續這樣比較的原因是這類的報導讓 Model 3 跟「有史以 來最安全」這個關鍵字持續曝光,當作免費的正面宣傳。 心得/說明:(30字以上) 所以說 Model 3 是有史以來最安全的車並沒錯 但是以 NHTSA 的立場 應該要加上兩個條件 1. 只跟同重量級車比 2. 跟不同級車比 只比撞牆 Model 3 如果撞上火車 當然還是火車比較安全 但是跟同級車比它的確是有史以來最安全 *轉錄新聞/情報,必須附上原文及網址連結心得或意見30字(不含標點符號) -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 49.216.43.15 (臺灣) ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/car/M.1565456119.A.4BD.html

08/11 00:58, 4年前 , 1F
Smart:
08/11 00:58, 1F

08/11 00:58, 4年前 , 2F
車輛相撞時,車上的人沒當場死亡或昏迷的話,會有一陣
08/11 00:58, 2F

08/11 00:58, 4年前 , 3F
子處在有意識但身體完全沒辦法反應的狀態(類似鬼壓床)
08/11 00:58, 3F

08/11 00:59, 4年前 , 4F
所以 應該要買火車= =
08/11 00:59, 4F

08/11 01:07, 4年前 , 5F
英文裡面的亂碼…好多
08/11 01:07, 5F

08/11 01:33, 4年前 , 6F
好多亂碼
08/11 01:33, 6F

08/11 01:41, 4年前 , 7F
有什麼市售車撞的火車?
08/11 01:41, 7F

08/11 01:41, 4年前 , 8F
現在有什麼市售車撞的贏火車?
08/11 01:41, 8F

08/11 01:50, 4年前 , 9F
按照鋼鐵人的個性,大概下一秒會每台車買來對撞一次,看
08/11 01:50, 9F

08/11 01:50, 4年前 , 10F
看是不是比較安全
08/11 01:50, 10F

08/11 02:13, 4年前 , 11F
依他個性應該是說 因為重量考量 可能X還是更安全
08/11 02:13, 11F
※ 編輯: hanchueh (49.216.43.15 臺灣), 08/11/2019 02:22:59

08/11 02:18, 4年前 , 12F
這樣講的話NHTSA不是自打臉?都知道馬路上千變萬化了,
08/11 02:18, 12F

08/11 02:18, 4年前 , 13F
用牆測試的意義在哪?
08/11 02:18, 13F

08/11 02:19, 4年前 , 14F
這樣比永遠比不完阿
08/11 02:19, 14F

08/11 02:20, 4年前 , 15F
用牆就是自己撞自己啊 但重的車在現實有優勢
08/11 02:20, 15F

08/11 02:51, 4年前 , 16F
說穿了就是用字遣詞的問題 類似的案例就AutoPilot
08/11 02:51, 16F

08/11 05:45, 4年前 , 17F
基本上就是特斯拉考了98分 然後 NHTSA 說九十分以上都是 A
08/11 05:45, 17F

08/11 05:45, 4年前 , 18F
特斯拉不能說最高分只能說你拿到 A
08/11 05:45, 18F

08/11 06:16, 4年前 , 19F
這點一堆人都沒注意到 以為小車高分會跟大車高分結果一樣
08/11 06:16, 19F
這點 Elon Musk就會反駁說特斯拉車子都不小,然後因為電池也都很重,重心也穩。 ※ 編輯: hanchueh (117.19.130.154 臺灣), 08/11/2019 07:42:53

08/11 08:10, 4年前 , 20F
NHTSA這樣要求有點過份,實驗室數據本來就是要量化,
08/11 08:10, 20F

08/11 08:11, 4年前 , 21F
都跟撞牆比,合理,但要跟千萬種現實狀況比,怎麼比,
08/11 08:11, 21F

08/11 08:11, 4年前 , 22F
要大家開坦克嗎?
08/11 08:11, 22F

08/11 08:12, 4年前 , 23F
如果撞牆不夠現實,那就改變實驗條件,讓實驗更符合現
08/11 08:12, 23F

08/11 08:13, 4年前 , 24F
實,而不是做了實驗,又說不一定是這樣。
08/11 08:13, 24F

08/11 08:31, 4年前 , 25F
就是不能完全用測試模擬街道各種變化,NHTSA才不願意T
08/11 08:31, 25F

08/11 08:31, 4年前 , 26F
esla就因此說他們是有史以來最安全
08/11 08:31, 26F

08/11 08:35, 4年前 , 27F
火車那段在講什麼...邏輯要不要重修
08/11 08:35, 27F

08/11 08:47, 4年前 , 28F
你測出來的數據,給人家誇大的理由,啊現在又不說你不要
08/11 08:47, 28F

08/11 08:47, 4年前 , 29F
這麼自大,我數據歸數據而已,真的話都給你說耶。
08/11 08:47, 29F

08/11 08:57, 4年前 , 30F
本來就不能只看撞擊成績就下定論,但大家就是愛比分數啊
08/11 08:57, 30F

08/11 09:39, 4年前 , 31F
簡單講就是安全啦
08/11 09:39, 31F

08/11 09:40, 4年前 , 32F
NHTSA沒說撞牆成績最高就是最安全的吧
08/11 09:40, 32F

08/11 10:14, 4年前 , 33F
誰說小車不安全 https://youtu.be/lh1qqWoUDKo
25秒開始
08/11 10:14, 33F

08/11 12:19, 4年前 , 34F
eBay上賣的坦克車應該可以撞贏火車吧
08/11 12:19, 34F

08/11 13:29, 4年前 , 35F
不行。坦克的噸數還是差火車一大截。頂多坦克變形不嚴重
08/11 13:29, 35F

08/11 13:29, 4年前 , 36F
,但乘員不保證生存。
08/11 13:29, 36F

08/11 15:02, 4年前 , 37F
就跟前幾年特斯拉一直強調自動駕駛的情況一樣啊
08/11 15:02, 37F

08/11 16:06, 4年前 , 38F
總統座車都換成tesla最安全
08/11 16:06, 38F
文章代碼(AID): #1TJlRtIz (car)
文章代碼(AID): #1TJlRtIz (car)