[情報] 官方藍帖‧關於Widowmaker改動

看板OverWatch作者 (挖系GE耶)時間8年前 (2016/06/17 17:56), 8年前編輯推噓45(48推 3噓 45→)
留言96則, 54人參與, 最新討論串1/2 (看更多)
大意：原本奪命女的操作方式沒得到應有的代價，NERF。 原文： http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20745186024?page=3#post-42 沒多久就3X頁了 正反兩派戰翻天 ============================================================================== Making the sure game feels responsive and smooth is very important to us. Wherever we can, we make sure that the game responds to player input asap. However, the one situation where we have to step in and possibly slow things down is when an 'animation canceling' trick is discovered and allows players to significantly increase a characters power. There are two main problems with just leaving these things in the game as they are. 我們非常重視英雄操作對玩家的回饋與流暢感，但是當有些"取消動畫"的技巧能讓英雄 威力顯著提升時，我們就會考慮調整英雄讓操作慢下來。 而如果不對這些問題做調整，可能會產生兩樣問題。 1. This trick becomes the new balance of the hero. Lets say there is a trick that somehow allowed you to instantly complete McCree's roll instead of waiting for it to complete normally. At that point, the character is much stronger, and might suddenly be a balancing problem. The choices then becomes either fix that bug, or allow it to exist and reduce his power elsewhere. If we decide to reduce his power elsewhere, unless you know how to do this special (and often unintuitive) trick, he will never feel correctly powerful for you. 2. Learning a hero now has to include learning how to abuse these bugs. This is a huge turn off to a lot of players, and can turn a potential favorite hero into a 'will never pick'. 1. 這些"技巧"會改變英雄現有的平衡。假設來說，如果McCree的翻滾能利用取消動畫的 技巧讓翻滾動作提早完成，顯然McCree會OP不少。這時如果我們選擇讓這個技巧繼續留 在腳色上，我們就只能從別的地方去平衡他。 這樣變成如果你不會用這些"不直覺"的操作，你就注定是個銅牌麥卡利。 2. 學習一個腳色的時候，這些小技巧因此變成不得不學習的東西。影響到一個玩家對這 些腳色的遊玩意願。 To speak to Widow's scope canceling trick specifically, when I first saw it it seemed fine. The idea was that you are slowing down your fire rate slightly to gain a little more situational awareness and a small movement bump between shots, that is fine as a trade off. But the problem came about once I looked into it a bit more and realized that the recovery time (the time between shots) is 0.5 seconds, so as long as you scoped back in within 0.5 seconds of your last shot, it didn't 'cost' you anything. That, in turn, means the *correct* way to play her is to always scope out and back in within 0.5s of every shot, otherwise you are playing a weaker Widowmaker. 再來談到Widowmaker這次開關鏡改動，一開始我注意到這件事的時候認為沒什麼問題。 就只是玩家犧牲了一點開火頻率，換取比較多的視野資訊和一些機動性。但是當我更深入 研究這個問題的時候，才發現WM的開火間隔是0.5秒，因此舊版的開關鏡技巧不會讓你損 失任何東西。 結果就是"正確"的操作WM的方式變成每槍的0.5秒間格中都開關鏡，不然你就是個比 較差的奪命女。 We talked about adding in some cost to force it to be more of a trade off, such as delaying the recovery time when you scope out. That would mean when you scoped back in you would have to wait the remaining 0.5s before you were allowed to start charging or shoot again. Solutions like that often feel even worse and are generally confusing, so we tend not to go those directions. In general, we're not against player discovered tricks, in fact we love watching players jump in and find this cool stuff! For example, Widowmaker wasn't initially designed with the ability to be able to launch herself off a ledge while grappling up, but that one was left in because it is pretty easy to do (press space when you're approaching a ledge), works consistently, and doesn't significantly change her power level. 我們有討論如何讓這個操作產生應有的代價，像是在關鏡後強制增加0.5秒的恢復時間 這時候不能重新開鏡集氣或是開槍，但是這類的調整通常效果不是很好，而且會讓玩家操 作時產生混亂，所以我們決定不往這個方向調整。 最後，我們不會阻止甚至非常喜歡玩家去挖掘這些小技巧。像是我們一開始根本沒有設 計讓玩家可以用WM的勾爪來做彈射，但是我們決定把這個操作留在WM上，因為很簡單、操 作起來很協調、而且不會顯著的影響英雄平衡。 ============================================================================== PS.滿多遊戲利用這些技巧來提升腳色的深度跟學習曲線。 不過OW的設計師顯然有不一樣的想法。 大家覺得這個改動如何呢? -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 36.227.232.188 ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/OverWatch/M.1466157417.A.95E.html
推
06/17 17:59, , 1F
風向會怎麼樣呢
06/17 17:59, 1F
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06/17 17:59, , 2F
討論串中有其他不少設計師回文，有興趣可以看看
06/17 17:59, 2F
※ 編輯: IamAFake (36.227.232.188), 06/17/2016 18:00:31
推
06/17 18:00, , 3F
還蠻標準的暴雪改動法啊
06/17 18:00, 3F
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06/17 18:01, , 4F
OW一個優點就是好上手 如果有些技巧不學就比較爛不太好
06/17 18:01, 4F
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06/17 18:03, , 5F
bz：玩家使用了不是我們設計玩法的方法遊玩所以要nerf
06/17 18:03, 5F
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06/17 18:03, , 6F
沒關係 強迫開開關關的往強迫射一發格鬥一下發展了XD
06/17 18:03, 6F
推
06/17 18:04, , 7F
結論就是他們其實沒有很在意開火頻率只是他媽的想在射
06/17 18:04, 7F
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06/17 18:04, , 8F
完一發的0.5秒cd時間找點事情做
06/17 18:04, 8F
推
06/17 18:05, , 9F
CS那種狙才會讓狙擊泛濫
06/17 18:05, 9F
推
06/17 18:06, , 10F
什麼是鉤爪彈射啊?
06/17 18:06, 10F
推
06/17 18:06, , 11F
只能說他不想讓使用者的技巧差距太大
06/17 18:06, 11F
推
06/17 18:06, , 12F
有人拿死神跟源式出來argue,原po要不要順便一下XD
06/17 18:06, 12F
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06/17 18:06, , 13F
但是 源氏這種操作者天差地遠的他怎麼不動一下
06/17 18:06, 13F
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06/17 18:07, , 14F
鉤爪彈射=飛天狙人 很多高手都會用
06/17 18:07, 14F
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06/17 18:07, , 15F
鉤爪彈射明明就比開關鏡難 他卻認為是人人應該都會
06/17 18:07, 15F
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06/17 18:08, , 16F
昨天這串我爬蠻久的，可惜沒其他設計師出來戰
06/17 18:08, 16F
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06/17 18:08, , 17F
勾爪彈射
06/17 18:08, 17F
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06/17 18:08, , 18F
很懷疑設計師有沒有親自下去打野團?
06/17 18:08, 18F
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06/17 18:10, , 19F
剩下的看有沒有人要認領吧XD
06/17 18:10, 19F
推
06/17 18:10, , 20F
牛仔怎麼讓翻滾動作提早完成?
06/17 18:10, 20F
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06/17 18:11, , 21F
鉤爪彈射 潮
06/17 18:11, 21F
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06/17 18:11, , 22F
勾爪就抓一個點然後又按一次勾就會飛上天
06/17 18:11, 22F
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06/17 18:12, , 23F
星海的T，好甩槍，不學嗎？
06/17 18:12, 23F
推
06/17 18:12, , 24F
牛仔翻滾取消是舉例假設 實際上沒有這個技巧
06/17 18:12, 24F
推
06/17 18:12, , 25F
狙擊有一項成就就是要勾爪飛爆頭
06/17 18:12, 25F
推
06/17 18:12, , 26F
那你就不要同時砍傷害啊低能
06/17 18:12, 26F
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06/17 18:13, , 27F
哦哦 然後現在奪命女要玩得好就是要 右鍵狂拉鏡
06/17 18:13, 27F
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06/17 18:13, , 28F
大家怒的點是你操作性傷害齊砍，則一問題不就解決了
06/17 18:13, 28F
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06/17 18:14, , 29F
砍操作沒問題吧 畢竟打從一開始暴雪就想封殺瞬狙了
06/17 18:14, 29F
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06/17 18:15, , 30F
傷害個人也認為還好 畢竟暴頭傷害沒砍 hitbox也沒砍
06/17 18:15, 30F
噓
06/17 18:15, , 31F
暴雪平衡不意外，看看隔壁棚爆刀就知道暴雪平衡多低能
06/17 18:15, 31F
噓
06/17 18:15, , 32F
翻譯：遊戲簡單就好我們追求的不是操作性
06/17 18:15, 32F
推
06/17 18:16, , 33F
玩個遊戲還要找各種偏方不累嗎？
06/17 18:16, 33F
推
06/17 18:17, , 34F
樓上說的應該是空中爆頭，不一定要鉤吧
06/17 18:17, 34F
推
06/17 18:17, , 35F
找偏方很好玩 但BZ覺得太難的偏方要改
06/17 18:17, 35F
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06/17 18:18, , 36F
不直覺的技巧他要改其實蠻正常的
06/17 18:18, 36F
推
06/17 18:19, , 37F
很多人看不懂意思.....
06/17 18:19, 37F
推
06/17 18:22, , 38F
了解 感謝回答
06/17 18:22, 38F
推
06/17 18:22, , 39F
是鉤快鉤到的時候按跳吧 會額外再飛出去一段距離
06/17 18:22, 39F
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06/17 18:23, , 40F
06/17 18:23, 40F
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06/17 18:23, , 41F
哪裡不想讓技巧差距太大 開關鏡算什麼高深技巧
06/17 18:23, 41F
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06/17 18:24, , 42F
贊成這篇說法 就只是個逼你去做的無聊動作
06/17 18:24, 42F
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06/17 18:25, , 43F
我還真不太會開關鏡....
06/17 18:25, 43F
噓
06/17 18:25, , 44F
就平常一堆人抱怨別人選送命女 結果一Nerf就歸位了
06/17 18:25, 44F
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06/17 18:26, , 45F
看那些人玻璃心碎說實在挺有趣的lol
06/17 18:26, 45F
推
06/17 18:28, , 46F
不直覺的東西砍掉也好
06/17 18:28, 46F
推
06/17 18:28, , 47F
說真的 我不覺得勾爪或是開鏡有甚麼好改的 我就是手殘阿
06/17 18:28, 47F
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06/17 18:29, , 48F
人家可以有這種操作我也是認了
06/17 18:29, 48F
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06/17 18:29, , 49F
nerf爽啊 沒送命女94爽
06/17 18:29, 49F
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06/17 18:32, , 50F
當然 官方也可以用:這個跟他們當初的預想不同輕鬆帶過
06/17 18:32, 50F
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06/17 18:32, , 51F
很有道理啊 為反對而反對..
06/17 18:32, 51F
推
06/17 18:37, , 52F
一定還會繼續用啊 又沒人取代這隻角色的地位
06/17 18:37, 52F
推
06/17 18:45, , 53F
鉤爪射合理阿 動畫都這樣
06/17 18:45, 53F
推
06/17 18:58, , 54F
溝爪 有一個成就喔 配合紅外線 可以解到
06/17 18:58, 54F
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06/17 18:58, , 55F
跳g暴頭那個
06/17 18:58, 55F
推
06/17 18:59, , 56F
只要這隻的人設外型沒改我就會一直玩她 >////<
06/17 18:59, 56F
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06/17 19:00, , 57F
雖然我覺得一槍打不死閃光那個死屁孩很機歪
06/17 19:00, 57F
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06/17 19:17, , 58F
Nerf好阿
06/17 19:17, 58F
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06/17 19:34, , 59F
在怎麼改還是會一堆人玩的啦，就一堆人喜歡CAMP後面偷射
06/17 19:34, 59F
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06/17 19:34, , 60F
CAMPER會繼續CAMPER，而打頭的高手還是會繼續用
06/17 19:34, 60F
推
06/17 19:36, , 61F
這nerf還不夠 繼續
06/17 19:36, 61F
推
06/17 19:38, , 62F
我覺得改的好。之前那種狙擊對要求團隊的OW絕對不是好事
06/17 19:38, 62F
推
06/17 19:39, , 63F
記者哭哭
06/17 19:39, 63F
推
06/17 19:49, , 64F
OW絕不能像CS那樣每個都在玩狙
06/17 19:49, 64F
推
06/17 19:50, , 65F
改了就是爽
06/17 19:50, 65F
推
06/17 19:55, , 66F
很同意
06/17 19:55, 66F
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06/17 20:01, , 67F
說CS每個都玩狙 一定沒再打競技...
06/17 20:01, 67F
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06/17 20:02, , 68F
CS的經濟是很重要的策略 一個隊伍一把狙已經很夠了
06/17 20:02, 68F
推
06/17 20:06, , 69F
有些人看不懂 +1
06/17 20:06, 69F
推
06/17 20:07, , 70F
我有說是CSGO嗎?
06/17 20:07, 70F
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06/17 20:07, , 71F
CS系列狙擊泛濫可是事實
06/17 20:07, 71F
推
06/17 20:10, , 72F
爆刀有啥好噓 你看賊現在如果有爆刀會多op
06/17 20:10, 72F
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06/17 20:18, , 73F
那也是因為金錢限制好嗎XDD 試試看像OW一樣開場就能拿
06/17 20:18, 73F
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06/17 20:18, , 74F
會有幾個人拿狙擊
06/17 20:18, 74F
推
06/17 20:52, , 75F
狙擊手會開鏡在關竟本來就莫名其妙 哪部電影這樣演的
06/17 20:52, 75F
推
06/17 21:35, , 76F
遊戲是遊戲 電影是電影 混在一起討論就沒意義
06/17 21:35, 76F
推
06/17 21:45, , 77F
那又哪部電影的狙擊會有彈道洩漏位置的
06/17 21:45, 77F
推
06/17 21:53, , 78F
哪部電影狙擊用鉤飛來飛去的
06/17 21:53, 78F
推
06/17 22:13, , 79F
你看城市獵人 天使心 香螢是有飛來飛去狙ㄇ
06/17 22:13, 79F
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06/17 23:12, , 80F
G真的太多人玩了
06/17 23:12, 80F
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06/17 23:59, , 81F
才正要學習的時候就砍掉 第一次有這種感覺
06/17 23:59, 81F
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06/18 00:01, , 82F
那本來就不是屬於你的 學屁學
06/18 00:01, 82F
推
06/18 00:15, , 83F
其實暴雪想多了 銅牌怎麼可能會學取消動畫的技巧
06/18 00:15, 83F
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06/18 00:16, , 84F
能打中人就不錯了 還要求什麼 認真玩的才會去碰技巧
06/18 00:16, 84F
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06/18 00:18, , 85F
而認真玩的哪會有什麼因為要練習就不願意碰這支角色
06/18 00:18, 85F
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06/18 00:20, , 86F
雖然改不平衡的東西 我真的覺得是好事
06/18 00:20, 86F
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06/18 00:21, , 87F
可惜的是你知我知 BZ平衡就是個笑話 呵呵
06/18 00:21, 87F
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06/18 00:54, , 88F
這個nerf其實很單純，就BZ原本沒有這個設計
06/18 00:54, 88F
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06/18 00:55, , 89F
在他們意料外的小技巧被挖出來，幾乎百分之百都是砍掉
06/18 00:55, 89F
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06/18 00:56, , 90F
只有他們預定給你的東西，你才能用，一路走來都是這樣
06/18 00:56, 90F
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06/18 01:54, , 91F
藍帖說的沒錯阿 那原本就算bug 而不是小技巧
06/18 01:54, 91F
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06/18 02:21, , 92F
腳腳腳腳色
06/18 02:21, 92F
推
06/18 14:03, , 93F
基本上就不合狙擊邏輯的東西 單純是遊戲漏洞被利用而已
06/18 14:03, 93F
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06/18 15:16, , 94F
多的電影是狙擊會有鎗火洩漏位置好嗎…狙擊生死線 大
06/18 15:16, 94F
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06/18 15:16, , 95F
敵當前
06/18 15:16, 95F
推
06/19 09:57, , 96F
改了開關鏡之後，我會錯亂我就沒再碰了...
06/19 09:57, 96F
‣ 更多 IamAFake 的文章
文章代碼(AID): #1NOybfbU (OverWatch)
‣ 更多 IamAFake 的文章
文章代碼(AID): #1NOybfbU (OverWatch)