Re: [情報] Lifecoach決定退出爐石

看板Hearthstone作者 (鍋貼)時間7年前 (2017/02/26 10:48), 編輯推噓134(135推 1噓 154→)
留言290則, 118人參與, 最新討論串2/5 (看更多)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egkNbk5XBS4
影片原文 3:50開始 大概翻一下 意思有到就好 還蠻像業配文的 Finally, since a long time I have a feeling I'm playing something competitive. What I'm saying is, if you lose a game of Gwent, you know exactly why you lost, which might also be true for Hearthstone, but what I'm saying is, not only do you know why you lost, but it's usually basically always due to your mistakes. 最近我在玩Gwent，Gwent讓我重拾"競技"的感覺 在Gwent，我輸了我知道我為什麼會輸，而且輸通常都因為我犯了一些錯誤 Because you usually don't lose that many games that you played perfectly, which is by the pretty much impossible. So, what I'm saying is the games you lose are the games where you blunder, where you did mistakes, which can definitely not be said about any game of Hearthstone. In Hearthstone, just today I have a direct comparison, you play really well, extremely well, and you can lose a lot of games, or you play very crappy and you win a lot of games. (在Gwent)如果你完全不犯錯誤通常會贏，而輸了通常會知道哪裡有犯錯 在爐石不太一樣，完美不犯錯的玩家可能會輸成狗 一直打錯的玩家也可能狂贏猛贏 In Gwent, you have nearly 90% that's nearly unloseable (sic), if you do the same in Hearthstone – 60%. But, the funny thing is, if you play extremely well, you might have 65%, and you if really, really play bad Hearthstone that day, it doesn't matter, you still have 50-55%. I'm not even kidding here, yeah? 在Gwent，如果打的好勝率大概是90% 在爐石，打的好勝率大概是60%，打的完美大概是65% 但即使你打的爛，勝率還是有50%-55% You can play like crap and you can still have 50%, it doesn't even matter, it's not even that important how you, it's like coin flipping with a little bit of strategy. So, maybe how you rotate the coin so that it flies through the air at a specific angle so that you can have a 10% higher chance of having this head outcome or tail outcome. 爐石打的跟屎一樣大概還是有50%勝率 如果要比喻的話 大概就跟丟硬幣差不多 你可以有自己的策略讓丟硬幣有比較高的機率拿到正面或反面 大概多個10%之類的 (意思就是影響不大 遊戲的主軸跟丟硬幣差不多) The RNG effects don't help; the super impactful swing-cards don't help: Kazakus, Patches, and such. It also doesn't help that there are cards which are obviously included in every freaking deck. Complexity? JJ: That's my team. (真正大幅度影響勝率的)不是RNG 也不是那些超級op卡(卡札、派奇) 而且每副牌都有這些牌 遊戲複雜度呢?(Complexity) JJ: 那是我的戰隊 Lifecoach: The only way how complexity is in the game, yeah, when Complexity is playing. 這遊戲真正有複雜度是在Complexity戰隊打比賽的時候 JJ: (laughs in German) That was a good one. JJ:(大笑)這是個好梗 Lifecoach: They basically deleted all the interesting mechanics from the game. I wonder what happens next. They mentioned publicly that they want to get rid of the Charge mechanics. They want to get rid of direct damage mechanics. They want to get rid of combos. JJ: (laughs, but not in German) They can just delete the game. Lifecoach: They want to get rid of OTK combos specifically, but also force combos, they want to take away all cards which might take create sick combos, which might be too powerful, they nerfed all the cards which had interesting effects: Molten Giant, Blade Flurry, Patron, whenever there was something which had another effect than stats - removed from the game. Coach:Blizzard把這個遊戲有趣的機制都刪光光了 我不知道他們接下來要做什麼 他們公開說過他們想刪掉衝鋒 他們想刪掉OTK 他們想刪掉Combo JJ:(大笑)他們可以刪掉遊戲 Coach:他們想要把OTK砍掉 把過強的Combo砍掉 砍到最後Bz把一些有趣的卡都砍光了 熔火巨人、劍刃亂舞、奴隸 而且還不是Nerf，是直接移除出遊戲 What am I even saying? What I'm saying is this lock and this lock that is my latest run but at the same time it will also directly be my last run. You will never see me talking about Hearthstone ever again, from this day on, because I'm just fed up. I thought about it, and I just realized - hey, since three years they are doing nothing for the competitive scene, rather the opposite, they are always going in the wrong direction, and at this point I really have to assume that they are either not capable of changing that or that they are not willing to do that. 我在這邊講這一堆是因為這是我最後一次提到爐石 從今天開始我不會開始提到任何爐石 我受夠了 三年來Bz製作團隊不曾把爐石往電競方向作改動 反而越來越糟 他們一直往錯誤的方向改 我現在認為他們要就沒能力改 要就不想改 I'm playing Gwent now, yeah? And Gwent is a great game, the competitive scene is really being taken seriously and also the playing fun is above. Then don't say, "Hey, we simply try everything, so that even the last dude can understand everything from the game", they say, "OK, our game is complex and competitive, but we also have something for you guys to begin the game." "We also have some kind of mechanic which are easier, and it's also free-to-play, so you get some cool incentives to play, but at the same time we also don't skillcap it, so we say it's perfectly fine if someone who spends 100 hours a week in the game, or if somebody plays the game way, way better than another player, if this guy can own or get better than the guy who doesn't play the game or plays the game very casually, gets the better of him, also by playing card which the weaker player cannot really (understand)." Patron would be a good example, like Patron was such a mechanic, somebody who was extremely, or who was very good at the game, could take these Patron mechanics and could be really successful with it, but on the other hand, the numbers indicated that people were doing less than average, it wasn't even a strongest deck on the ladder, at least not over all levels, and the reasoning for that was, because it actually took certain playing strengths to even utilize the Patron mechanic, because if you didn't have the certain playing strengths, Patron was not a deck for you. It was just way too weak. This is a very good example of why I think Hearthstone doesn't have the future, at least... (業配文時間) 我現在在玩Gwent 這是個好遊戲 又有競技成分又很有趣 他們不會說 "這是一個簡單的遊戲 新手都可以輕鬆上手喔" 他們說 "ok, 這個遊戲很複雜又吃技術, blahblah (下略200字，反正就業配) ...像是奴隸，奴隸是一個鑑別度很高的東西，會玩的不會玩的勝率天差地遠 奴隸(的nerf)就是一個爐石沒有未來的例子，或是沒有.. JJ: Competitively. JJ:電競成分 Lifecoach: ...competitively. I hope even with me not focusing on Hearthstone you will still enjoy us playing different stuff. There are also interesting things I enjoy. (inaudible) Team League. It's great, yeah? You have different decks, skill-heavy decks, and you have a good format, there are still patches classes, sure, but it's way, way better than this ladder system. (??? didn't get what LC or JJ said here) Coach:電競成分(的例子) 事實上爐石還是可以很好玩 例如現在的戰隊聯賽 雖然還是有派奇那些 可是跟天梯相比就是有趣許多 You won't see me on the ladder, unless the game is prolonged longer than 5 minutes or 7 minutes on average, I don't have time for that, yeah? I want to have a challenge, mental challenge. I want to improve myself, in whatever stuff, but if I am passionate about it or I like it, then I would like to improve. And if some area doesn't give me a challenge, I'm actually really sad. 接下來你不會在天梯上看到我 除非遊戲平均時間被延長5到7分鐘 你可能會說 我沒有時間打那麼長 但(我的觀點來說)我想要挑戰 心理上的挑戰 我想要讓自己變強 今天(的爐石環境)沒有給我這些挑戰 我很難過 That's not for me, if the game is not competitive, that's boredom for me, and I'm really happy we have found something. Not only does it have a very high skillcap, but is also extremely rewarding, which means mistakes become punished and good plays become rewarded and this is also how it should be. 今天一個遊戲不夠競技 那對我來說很無聊 幸好我發現了新的遊戲 讓有技術的人獲得足夠的回報 我認為這就是一個遊戲應該做的 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 75.80.58.255 ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Hearthstone/M.1488077335.A.E4C.html
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02/26 10:52, , 1F
翻譯先推一個
02/26 10:52, 1F
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02/26 10:52, , 2F
推鍋貼大翻譯!!!
02/26 10:52, 2F
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02/26 10:53, , 3F
立馬google Gwent
02/26 10:53, 3F
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02/26 10:53, , 4F
先來一局昆特牌
02/26 10:53, 4F
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02/26 10:53, , 5F
簡單來說 來局昆特牌吧
02/26 10:53, 5F
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02/26 10:53, , 6F
成功的工商
02/26 10:53, 6F
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02/26 10:54, , 7F
翻譯辛苦ㄖ
02/26 10:54, 7F
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02/26 10:56, , 8F
國外一致好評LUL
02/26 10:56, 8F
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02/26 10:57, , 9F
感謝翻譯
02/26 10:57, 9F
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02/26 10:57, , 10F
昆特牌開始挖角惹?
02/26 10:57, 10F
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02/26 10:59, , 11F
新遊戲都會請實況主宣傳吧,steam板都有人在發cb key
02/26 10:59, 11F
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02/26 10:59, , 12F
想玩的可以去看看 不過可能拿光了 這二天在注意看看
02/26 10:59, 12F
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02/26 11:04, , 13F
昆特牌真的還不錯玩,可以多關注一下steam的cb key
02/26 11:04, 13F
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02/26 11:05, , 14F
Gwent是一款真正的競技遊戲。一開始我會玩 是因為..
02/26 11:05, 14F
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02/26 11:05, , 15F
（誤
02/26 11:05, 15F
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02/26 11:05, , 16F
話說現在還有哪些不錯玩也找得到地方討論的線上TCG?
02/26 11:05, 16F
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02/26 11:05, , 17F
感謝翻譯
02/26 11:05, 17F
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02/26 11:08, , 18F
昆特牌好玩啊
02/26 11:08, 18F
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02/26 11:09, , 19F
先來一場坤特吧
02/26 11:09, 19F
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02/26 11:09, , 20F
會玩的勝率到90就是個問題
02/26 11:09, 20F
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02/26 11:10, , 21F
不是好不好的問題 而是設計路線的問題
02/26 11:10, 21F
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02/26 11:10, , 22F
昆特牌根本沒人玩 才20幾萬個讚.... 大概1%
02/26 11:10, 22F
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02/26 11:11, , 23F
別找ciri了 來場昆特
02/26 11:11, 23F
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02/26 11:11, , 24F
Value town也提到改版方向錯誤ㄏㄏ
02/26 11:11, 24F
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02/26 11:11, , 25F
會被高手虐的遊戲自然就容易往hardcore走
02/26 11:11, 25F
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02/26 11:11, , 26F
沒抽到key也可以先玩昆特三
02/26 11:11, 26F
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02/26 11:12, , 27F
value town 主要還是抱怨改太慢
02/26 11:12, 27F
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02/26 11:12, , 28F
昆特就是上手難度高，技術性也很強啊
02/26 11:12, 28F
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02/26 11:13, , 29F
key應該超好抽 我看分享得那個人給了超過100組
02/26 11:13, 29F
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02/26 11:13, , 30F
大概就跟mmo中的eve online一樣，超硬可是玩家群超
02/26 11:13, 30F
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02/26 11:13, , 31F
穩
02/26 11:13, 31F
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02/26 11:13, , 32F
會留下來玩昆特的就不太會跳，就像mtg
02/26 11:13, 32F
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02/26 11:14, , 33F
後段會跳八 這種遊戲就是底層的留不住 一直崩潰
02/26 11:14, 33F
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02/26 11:15, , 34F
昆特牌還在封測，要邀請馬才有得玩人少不是廢話嗎
02/26 11:15, 34F
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02/26 11:16, , 35F
操作難度高的牌本來就該給比較高的強度，可是bz卻
02/26 11:16, 35F
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02/26 11:16, , 36F
不這麼覺得
02/26 11:16, 36F
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02/26 11:20, , 37F
因為爐石的定位本來就是休閒取向
02/26 11:20, 37F
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02/26 11:20, , 38F
關注的人少 不是人少的問題 等上市再玩看看
02/26 11:20, 38F
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02/26 11:24, , 39F
昆特根本不是主遊戲啊？！ 巫師呢 巫師呢
02/26 11:24, 39F
還有 211 則推文
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02/26 17:39, , 251F
按錯 推回來
02/26 17:39, 251F
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02/26 18:32, , 252F
香蕉有在玩嗎
02/26 18:32, 252F
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02/26 18:34, , 253F
新手豆頁可可三天上傳--bz做壞最佳證明 這版真的很
02/26 18:34, 253F
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02/26 18:34, , 254F
悶 比古神被還悶
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02/26 18:40, , 255F
休閒娛樂取向 不用太認真啊
02/26 18:40, 255F
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02/26 19:07, , 256F
推個 真正有趣的都改掉 剩一些無聊牌組
02/26 19:07, 256F
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02/26 19:12, , 257F
你奶奶的現在看到爆刀那張鳥樣真的還是覺得很哭
02/26 19:12, 257F
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02/26 19:34, , 258F
最有趣版本就是探險者
02/26 19:34, 258F
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02/26 19:38, , 259F
一代patch一代神 這種改法遲早出問題
02/26 19:38, 259F
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02/26 19:48, , 260F
大推昆特，小遊戲做到出本體，CDPR良心公司
02/26 19:48, 260F
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02/26 19:59, , 261F
PS4現在有昆特玩嗎
02/26 19:59, 261F
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02/26 21:28, , 262F
現在只有PC跟XBOX
02/26 21:28, 262F
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02/26 21:32, , 263F
求解 昆特一直說下載失敗 configuration error
02/26 21:32, 263F
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02/26 21:56, , 264F
是防毒或防火牆的問題嗎
02/26 21:56, 264F
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02/26 22:41, , 265F
昆特是一款真正的...
02/26 22:41, 265F
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02/26 23:12, , 266F
卡牌遊戲, 當初會開始玩 是因為lifecoach 也在玩
02/26 23:12, 266F
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02/26 23:21, , 267F
steam和希洽版有發key想要的可以去拿
02/26 23:21, 267F
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02/27 00:36, , 268F
昆特牌是一款真正的卡牌遊戲
02/27 00:36, 268F
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02/27 00:36, , 269F
最一開始我會玩 是因為教練也有在玩
02/27 00:36, 269F
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02/27 00:37, , 270F
然後我去教練家 看到他一直在玩 他也推薦我玩
02/27 00:37, 270F
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02/27 00:40, , 271F
要討論昆特幹嘛不去開版討論...
02/27 00:40, 271F
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02/27 00:48, , 272F
可惜坤特在台灣應該不會紅 沒廠商推在台灣很難紅
02/27 00:48, 272F
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02/27 00:48, , 273F
就像csgo在國外很紅 在台灣沒廠商推就是沒人玩
02/27 00:48, 273F
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02/27 01:00, , 274F
台人少是好事吧..爐石亞服一堆繁中ID水準僅次南朝鮮
02/27 01:00, 274F
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02/27 01:01, , 275F
所以我遇到韓文與中文ID 第一件事是先消音 Kappa
02/27 01:01, 275F
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02/27 01:36, , 276F
指標性人物走拉QQ
02/27 01:36, 276F
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02/27 02:25, , 277F
棄爐石去玩sv 競技場五十勝有五次五連 爐石平均五
02/27 02:25, 277F
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02/27 02:25, , 278F
六勝而已
02/27 02:25, 278F
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02/27 09:24, , 279F
怎麼打都有50%+ 那到底是誰35-50%?
02/27 09:24, 279F
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02/27 10:10, , 280F
玩昆特牌送巫師3唷
02/27 10:10, 280F
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02/27 12:44, , 281F
不爽不要玩 (咦?
02/27 12:44, 281F
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02/27 19:26, , 282F
Csgo門檻太高 噢 我說的是skin門檻太高
02/27 19:26, 282F
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02/28 05:37, , 283F
推翻譯 幸好沒砸很多錢在爐石
02/28 05:37, 283F
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02/28 13:48, , 284F
QQ
02/28 13:48, 284F
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02/28 15:01, , 285F
昨天拿到key 玩到現在 真的好玩
02/28 15:01, 285F
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03/02 00:55, , 286F
路人屌打選手不是什麼問題吧 faker也沒每把都贏 何
03/02 00:55, 286F
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03/02 00:55, , 287F
況選手排到的也是高端路人
03/02 00:55, 287F
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03/02 04:37, , 288F
推翻譯
03/02 04:37, 288F
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03/07 14:56, , 289F
爐石要電競應該是要比11戰取6 這樣比較公平 輸了6場
03/07 14:56, 289F
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03/07 14:56, , 290F
那不是你牌組爛 就是運氣差 天注定
03/07 14:56, 290F
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文章代碼(AID): #1Oia8NvC (Hearthstone)
‣ 更多 kuonet 的文章
文章代碼(AID): #1Oia8NvC (Hearthstone)