Re: [資訊] China’s Great Shame

看板CrossStrait作者 (A將~)時間13年前 (2012/11/15 22:11), 編輯推噓0(0024)
留言24則, 3人參與, 最新討論串5/8 (看更多)
※ 引述《inebriety (酩酊)》之銘言: : 楊繼繩 : google了一下作者是中國人,職業是記者、教授。 看來你不太認識他。 楊繼繩是相當有名的人物,他擔任新華社記者30多年,是既有資歷,又有地位的, 也因為他有這樣的資歷,所以他在調查1958中國大飢荒時,這樣的身份使得他比 較能夠查到許多不被公開的資料,據他所說,就只有貴州的資料沒有辦法取得, 所以他的書《墓碑:中國六十年代饑荒紀實》,書中沒有貴州的資料。 他現在的身份是《炎黃春秋》雜誌副社長,仍然持續在重建中共建政的黑歷史。 他可以說是目前最知名的,研究1958中國大飢荒的專家之一,許多人都會請他演講 和說明那段歷史。 http://baboon1900.blogspot.tw/2010/09/1958-1962.html 這是兩年前他的演講逐字稿,影片的部分已經被刪除了。 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQGXZc_6ei4
這是他最近接受美國之音專訪的影片。 https://sites.google.com/site/dajihuanglishi/ 這是搜集各種大飢荒研究書籍的網站,第一本就是《墓碑:中國六十年代饑荒紀實》 : 他po在今天紐約時報上,翻成中國的奇恥大辱好了。 : 到底大躍進是死幾人阿,怎麼死的人數都差很多? 死多少人很難統計,因為大飢荒的持續時間也不容易確定,他在影片就說了 "人家都說是三年大飢荒,可是我們四川是五年大飢荒" 四川是餓死人最多的省份,有的統計是800萬,但更多的說法是1000萬!就是差在於 計算是應該結束在1961年,還是1963年? : http://tinyurl.com/bxpcn33 : THIRTY-SIX million people in China, including my uncle, who raised me like a : father, starved to death between 1958 and 1962, during the man-made calamity : known as the Great Famine. In thousands of cases, desperately hungry people : resorted to cannibalism. : The toll was more than twice the number of fallen in World War I, and about : six times the number of Ukrainians starved by Stalin in 1932-33 or the number : of Jews murdered by Hitler during World War II. : After 50 years, the famine still cannot be freely discussed in the place : where it happened. My book “Tombstone” could be published only in Hong : Kong, Japan and the West. It remains banned in mainland China, where : historical amnesia looms large and government control of information and : expression has tightened during the Communist Party’s 18th National : Congress, which began last week and will conclude with a once-in-a-decade : leadership transition. : Those who deny that the famine happened, as an executive at the state-run : newspaper People’s Daily recently did, enjoy freedom of speech, despite : their fatuous claims about “three years of natural disasters.” But no : plague, flood or earthquake ever wrought such horror during those years. One : might wonder why the Chinese government won’t allow the true tale to be : told, since Mao’s economic policies were abandoned in the late 1970s in : favor of liberalization, and food has been plentiful ever since. : The reason is political: a full exposure of the Great Famine could undermine : the legitimacy of a ruling party that clings to the political legacy of Mao, : even though that legacy, a totalitarian Communist system, was the root cause : of the famine. As the economist Amartya Sen has observed, no major famine has : ever occurred in a democracy. : In Mao’s China, the coercive power of the state penetrated every corner of : national life. The rural population was brought under control by a thorough : collectivization of agriculture. The state could then manage grain : production, requisitioning and distributing it by decree. Those who tilled : the earth were locked in place by a nationwide system of household : registration, and food coupons issued to city dwellers supplanted the market. : The peasants survived at the pleasure of the state. : The Great Leap Forward that Mao began in 1958 set ambitious goals without the : means to meet them. A vicious cycle ensued; exaggerated production reports : from below emboldened the higher-ups to set even loftier targets. Newspaper : headlines boasted of rice farms yielding 800,000 pounds per acre. When the : reported abundance could not actually be delivered, the government accused : peasants of hoarding grain. House-to-house searches followed, and any : resistance was put down with violence. : Meanwhile, since the Great Leap Forward mandated rapid industrialization, : even peasants’ cooking implements were melted down in the hope of making : steel in backyard furnaces, and families were forced into large communal : kitchens. They were told that they could eat their fill. But when food ran : short, no aid came from the state. Local party cadres held the rice ladles, a : power they often abused, saving themselves and their families at the expense : of others. Famished peasants had nowhere to turn. : In the first half of 1959, the suffering was so great that the central : government permitted remedial measures, like allowing peasant families to : till small private plots of land for themselves part time. Had these : accommodations persisted, they might have lessened the famine’s impact. But : when Peng Dehuai, then China’s defense minister, wrote Mao a candid letter : to say that things weren’t working, Mao felt that both his ideological : stance and his personal power were being challenged. He purged Peng and : started a campaign to root out “rightist deviation.” Remedial measures like : the private plots were rolled back, and millions of officials were : disciplined for failing to toe the radical line. : The result was starvation on an epic scale. By the end of 1960, China’s : total population was 10 million less than in the previous year. : Astonishingly, many state granaries held ample grain that was mostly reserved : for hard currency-earning exports or donated as foreign aid; these granaries : remained locked to the hungry peasants. “Our masses are so good,” one party : official said at the time. “They would rather die by the roadside than break : into the granary.” : As a journalist and a scholar of contemporary history, I felt a duty to find : out how the Great Famine happened and why. Starting in the 1990s, I visited : more than a dozen provinces, interviewed over a hundred witnesses, and : collected thousands of documents. Since the Great Famine was a forbidden : topic, I could get access to archives only under the pretext of “researching : agricultural policies” or “studying the food issue.” : Communist leaders established a vast system of slavery in the name of : liberating mankind. It was promoted as the “road to paradise,” but in fact : it was a road to perdition. : I intended my book to be a memorial to the 36 million victims, but also a : literal tombstone, anticipating the ultimate demise of the totalitarian : political system that caused the Great Famine. I was mindful of the risks in : this endeavor: if something happens to me because I tried to preserve a : truthful memory, then let the book stand as my tombstone, too. : Yang Jisheng, deputy editor of the historical journal Yanhuang Chunqiu and a : former editor at the Xinhua News Agency, is the author of “Tombstone: The : Great Chinese Famine, 1958-1962.” This essay was translated by Guo Jian from : the Chinese. -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 61.64.206.48

11/15 22:22, , 1F
我認識他的話就不用google了
11/15 22:22, 1F

11/15 22:22, , 2F
文章也只有最後一段提到他的一點資歷
11/15 22:22, 2F

11/15 22:23, , 3F
死多少人怎麼信最後也不會有共識的,除
11/15 22:23, 3F

11/15 22:23, , 4F
非阿共官方願意公開。
11/15 22:23, 4F

11/15 22:24, , 5F
歷史就是這樣 都信 都不信 保留一點空間
11/15 22:24, 5F

11/15 22:25, , 6F
那句單純要吐嘈一下死人數據都差很多
11/15 22:25, 6F
你是想吐嘈什麼? ※ 編輯: Aadmiral 來自: 61.64.206.48 (11/15 23:02)

11/15 23:05, , 7F
死人真可憐,死後只剩數據給活人玩。
11/15 23:05, 7F
你去和以色列人講吧!你就和他們說,繼續去計算納粹大屠殺的人數是活人玩的 ※ 編輯: Aadmiral 來自: 61.64.206.48 (11/15 23:06)

11/15 23:06, , 8F
我說了 我說我原文那句是要吐嘈用的
11/15 23:06, 8F

11/15 23:07, , 9F
你要自己憤憤不平我也管不著。
11/15 23:07, 9F
那你想管什麼?

11/15 23:07, , 10F
台灣慰安婦你捐了多少錢?
11/15 23:07, 10F
我沒有捐錢。 ※ 編輯: Aadmiral 來自: 61.64.206.48 (11/15 23:08)

11/15 23:07, , 11F
八八風災你捐了多少錢?
11/15 23:07, 11F

11/15 23:08, , 12F
嘴巴上替人不爽很簡單,誰都做的到。
11/15 23:08, 12F
你認為數字大了就不重要了? ※ 編輯: Aadmiral 來自: 61.64.206.48 (11/15 23:09)

11/15 23:08, , 13F
自己好好想吧,我諷刺不是沒理由。
11/15 23:08, 13F
還真看不明白你什麼理由。 ※ 編輯: Aadmiral 來自: 61.64.206.48 (11/15 23:09)

11/15 23:09, , 14F
那篇文也是我po出來的,針口沒針對任何
11/15 23:09, 14F

11/15 23:09, , 15F
人,只是回答一下我說那句用意而已。
11/15 23:09, 15F
就因為很多人真的在乎,所以才會一直去研究和統計,試圖去還原部分真相。 曹樹基的那一本《大饑荒》,已經絕版了,幾年前我在誠品翻過,裡頭全是統計表格 我是完全看不下去,所以就沒買。 他這麼認真的算統計表格,當然都是中共官方提供的,難道他是不在意大饑荒,只反共 的嗎 ? 當然不是嘛!他沒有任何的反共背景!他還在浙江大學教書咧 ※ 編輯: Aadmiral 來自: 61.64.206.48 (11/15 23:12)

11/15 23:10, , 16F
我跟你說 全世界都認為重要 。
11/15 23:10, 16F

11/15 23:10, , 17F
那你認為重要又比他人重要的價值高在哪
11/15 23:10, 17F

11/15 23:11, , 18F
你認為重要 我也認為重要阿 你比我高尚?
11/15 23:11, 18F

11/15 23:11, , 19F
回話只會 你去______________________
11/15 23:11, 19F

11/15 23:11, , 20F
對人這麼頤指氣使 哪惹到你了?
11/15 23:11, 20F

11/15 23:13, , 21F
你就好好研究幫他們平反吧
11/15 23:13, 21F

11/15 23:16, , 22F
我要幫誰平反?
11/15 23:16, 22F

11/15 23:24, , 23F
請原諒我 原諒我不成熟 ~~懶得回 8
11/15 23:24, 23F

08/13 09:16, , 24F
你要自己憤憤不平我也管 https://muxiv.com
08/13 09:16, 24F
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