[情報] Nature 也寫了有關葉詩文用藥與否的文章

看板Olympics_ISG作者 (無血之大戮)時間11年前 (2012/08/02 15:50), 編輯推噓19(24538)
留言67則, 31人參與, 最新討論串1/7 (看更多)
這個是全世界公信力最高的科學雜誌 簡單翻一下 --- 為什麼奧林匹克的功勳引起懷疑 多快是太快? XDDDD 文章提出四大問題 1.葉的表現異常嗎? 是. (文章內的解釋不翻,記者要自己做功課XDDDD) 2.藥物測試通過 排除了用藥的可能? 否 3. 如何用選手的表現來抓用藥者? 要建立選手表現的數據庫 血液的資料庫 定期追蹤 4. 然後運動員是否會因為表現太好而被處罰? 那是一個需要被驗證的問題 http://www.nature.com/news/why-great-olympic-feats-raise-suspicions-1.11109 Why great Olympic feats raise suspicions 'Performance profiling' could help to catch cheaters in sport. Ewen Callaway 01 August 2012 At the Olympics, how fast is too fast? That question has dogged Chinese swimmer Ye Shiwen after the 16-year-old shattered the world record in the women's 400-metre individual medley (400 IM) on Saturday. In the wake of that race, some swimming experts wondered whether Ye’s win was aided by performance-enhancing drugs. She has never tested positive for a banned substance and the International Olympic Committee on Tuesday declared that her post-race test was clean. The resulting debate has been tinged with racial and political undertones, but little science. Nature examines whether and how an athlete's performance history and the limits of human physiology could be used to catch dopers. Was Ye’s performance anomalous? Yes. Her time in the 400 IM was more than 7 seconds faster than her time in the same event at a major meet in July. But what really raised eyebrows was her showing in the last 50 metres, which she swam faster than US swimmer Ryan Lochte did when he won gold in the men’s 400 IM on Saturday, with the second-fastest time ever for that event. Doesn't a clean drug test during competition rule out the possibility of doping? No, says Ross Tucker, an exercise physiologist at the University of Cape Town in South Africa. Athletes are much more likely to dope while in training, when drug testing tends to be less rigorous. “Everyone will pass at the Olympic games. Hardly anyone fails in competition testing,” Tucker says. Out-of-competition tests are more likely to catch dopers, he says, but it is not feasible to test every elite athlete regularly year-round. Tracking an athlete over time and flagging anomalous performances would help anti-doping authorities to make better use of resources, says Yorck Olaf Schumacher, an exercise physiologist at the Medical University of Freiburg in Germany, who co-authored a 2009 paper proposing that performance profiling be used as an anti-doping tool1. “I think it’s a good way and a cheap way to narrow down a large group of athletes to suspicious ones, because after all, the result of any doping is higher performance,” Schumacher says. The ‘biological passport’, which measures characteristics of an athlete’s blood to look for physiological evidence of doping, works in a similar way to performance profiling (see 'Racing just to keep up'). After it was introduced in 2008, cycling authorities flagged irregularities in the blood characteristics of Antonio Colom, a Spanish cyclist, and targeted drug tests turned up evidence of the banned blood-boosting hormone erythropoietin (EPO) in 2009. How would performance be used to nab dopers? Anti-doping authorities need a better way of flagging anomalous performances or patterns of results, says Schumacher. To do this, sports scientists need to create databases that — sport by sport and event by event — record how athletes improve with age and experience. Longitudinal records of athletes’ performances would then be fed into statistical models to determine the likelihood that they ran or swam too fast, given their past results and the limits of human physiology. The Olympic biathlon, a winter sport that combines cross-country skiing and target shooting, has dabbled in performance profiling. In a pilot project, scientists at the International Biathlon Union in Salzburg, Austria, and the University of Ferrara in Italy, developed a software program that retroactively analysed blood and performance data from 180 biathletes over six years to identify those most likely to have doped2. The biathlon federation now uses the software to target its athletes for drug testing. Could an athlete then be disciplined simply for performing too well? “That would be unfair,” says Tucker. “The final verdict is only ever going to be reached by testing. It has to be.” In recent years, cycling authorities have successfully prosecuted athletes for having anomalous blood profiles, even when banned substances such as EPO could not be found. But performance is too far removed from taking a banned substance and influenced by too many outside factors to convict someone of doping, Tucker says. “When we look at this young swimmer from China who breaks a world record, that’s not proof of anything. It asks a question or two.” -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 166.248.10.19 ※ 編輯: imgkiller 來自: 166.248.10.19 (08/02 15:52)

08/02 15:52, , 1F
反正任何的質疑都推給種族歧視就是好了
08/02 15:52, 1F

08/02 15:54, , 2F
這雜誌公信力沒犯過錯 ? 個人寧可對內文持保留意見
08/02 15:54, 2F

08/02 15:54, , 3F
現在大家都在關心假球風波 戰中韓 沒人有空理這個了啦
08/02 15:54, 3F

08/02 15:55, , 4F
我一直在想 :如果對岸用了無法驗出的新藥來讓游泳選手實力
08/02 15:55, 4F

08/02 15:55, , 5F
問題根本不在有沒有用藥 因為不管怎麼樣都會有陰謀論(比如這
08/02 15:55, 5F

08/02 15:55, , 6F
那以後都不用驗啦 投票決定有沒有吃藥就好啦
08/02 15:55, 6F

08/02 15:55, , 7F
篇的新藥論) 最重要的問題是在證據出現前大規模的暗示明示
08/02 15:55, 7F

08/02 15:56, , 8F
大增,為什麼不多用在幾個人身上,只挑葉詩文 !?
08/02 15:56, 8F

08/02 15:56, , 9F
我基督教徒朋友還說林書豪變很強是上帝給他力量 你覺得勒XD
08/02 15:56, 9F

08/02 15:56, , 10F
歷史上藥檢通過,但後來卻證明有用藥的例子不少..
08/02 15:56, 10F

08/02 15:56, , 11F
抹黑懷疑 這種事北島.劉翔.bolt都遭遇過 批的最大力的永遠都
08/02 15:56, 11F

08/02 15:56, , 12F
很多老外真的會信上帝會讓人創造奇績跟不可能喔
08/02 15:56, 12F

08/02 15:57, , 13F
新型掩蓋劑也是個問題
08/02 15:57, 13F

08/02 15:57, , 14F
是歐美白人媒體 這些是我們真的能看到的事實
08/02 15:57, 14F

08/02 15:57, , 15F
而不是跟著去討論他的成績怎麼樣 歐美國家又少出天才了?
08/02 15:57, 15F

08/02 15:58, , 16F
有人追著討論他們的成績嗎???
08/02 15:58, 16F

08/02 15:58, , 17F
說了半天 還是質疑而已 也不敢斷言葉一定有用藥
08/02 15:58, 17F

08/02 15:58, , 18F
表現異常就是用藥? 有證據才來說吧 這樣質疑很可笑
08/02 15:58, 18F

08/02 15:59, , 19F
古今中外多少異於常人的天才 全部都說是吃藥好了
08/02 15:59, 19F

08/02 16:00, , 20F
奧運八金的菲爾普斯是不是也用了本文所謂無法驗出的禁藥 ?
08/02 16:00, 20F

08/02 16:00, , 21F
這篇沒有斷定葉詩文有用藥吧...|||
08/02 16:00, 21F

08/02 16:00, , 22F
會不會是吃紅景天或是類似的補給品
08/02 16:00, 22F

08/02 16:01, , 23F
菲爾普斯四年前有吃藥,現在沒吃藥所以成績差很多 !?
08/02 16:01, 23F

08/02 16:02, , 24F
這篇太有針對性了吧 針對個人欸 怎不去質疑其他人?
08/02 16:02, 24F

08/02 16:02, , 25F
其實2008菲爾普斯也被說過禁藥 只是沒吵起來啊
08/02 16:02, 25F

08/02 16:02, , 26F
要不要每個破記錄的 Nature都發一篇質疑文?
08/02 16:02, 26F

08/02 16:02, , 27F
時間會慢慢證明吧
08/02 16:02, 27F

08/02 16:02, , 28F
MLB禁藥大聯盟表示:
08/02 16:02, 28F

08/02 16:02, , 29F
標題亂下 這雜誌有說"用藥與否"? 沒有吧...
08/02 16:02, 29F

08/02 16:03, , 30F
因為葉詩文的藥檢通過 西方媒體還是一片質疑聲浪阿
08/02 16:03, 30F

08/02 16:03, , 31F
應該是吃了驗不出來的新藥。有些選手都是這樣幹...
08/02 16:03, 31F

08/02 16:04, , 32F
標題沒有葉詩文 但內容有阿 沒有葉詩文 不會有這篇文章
08/02 16:04, 32F

08/02 16:04, , 33F
用這種質疑式的 就可以寫一篇IF超高的........
08/02 16:04, 33F

08/02 16:05, , 34F
就說重點不在有沒有吃藥了 反正不管怎麼樣質疑是不會消失的
08/02 16:05, 34F

08/02 16:06, , 35F
問題在於西方歐美媒體大剌剌的懷疑與陰謀論 這才是最糟糕的
08/02 16:06, 35F

08/02 16:07, , 36F
還有個記者直接在賽後記者會要求葉只用"是或不是"回答用藥問
08/02 16:07, 36F

08/02 16:07, , 37F
題 這是怎麼樣的傲慢跟輕視?
08/02 16:07, 37F

08/02 16:08, , 38F
你以為這不是歐美雜誌啊?
08/02 16:08, 38F

08/02 16:08, , 39F
重點是:美國自己的人表現異常 就不會有這種質疑文章了
08/02 16:08, 39F

08/02 16:08, , 40F
美國昨天有一個蛙式準決賽 就比世界紀錄快2秒的女選手
08/02 16:08, 40F

08/02 16:08, , 41F
比世界紀錄快2秒耶 好誇張 美媒跟BBC怎不質疑她也吃藥?
08/02 16:08, 41F

08/02 16:09, , 42F
對啊 然後再來說質疑葉有道理 同樣身為被歧視人種的我們還很
08/02 16:09, 42F

08/02 16:09, , 43F
高興的一起懷疑
08/02 16:09, 43F

08/02 16:13, , 44F
就種族歧視而已啊...
08/02 16:13, 44F

08/02 16:16, , 45F
絕對有用__
08/02 16:16, 45F

08/02 16:16, , 46F
傳統歐美強項被黃皮膚的贏走 質疑一下不過分吧XD
08/02 16:16, 46F

08/02 16:20, , 47F
非爾普斯拿這麼多面金牌 要不要抓去驗血驗毛髮
08/02 16:20, 47F

08/02 16:20, , 48F
今天要是白人游出這樣的成績 就不會有這樣的質疑了
08/02 16:20, 48F

08/02 16:22, , 49F
非爾普斯其實蠻常被抽檢的,他的成績太好,所以抽檢很多
08/02 16:22, 49F

08/02 16:22, , 50F
葉詩文只是破奧會紀錄被質疑成這樣 那個美國女選手可是破
08/02 16:22, 50F

08/02 16:23, , 51F
藥檢歸藥檢 但不會特地還發Nature去質疑用藥問題
08/02 16:23, 51F

08/02 16:23, , 52F
世界紀錄耶
08/02 16:23, 52F

08/02 16:23, , 53F
去看四年前 有這樣規模的質疑聲浪嗎?
08/02 16:23, 53F

08/02 16:23, , 54F
說到用藥美國說第二誰給說第一
08/02 16:23, 54F

08/02 16:23, , 55F
美國女選手是天才 有啥好質疑的
08/02 16:23, 55F

08/02 16:24, , 56F
中國製藥技術有比老美神我可不相信
08/02 16:24, 56F

08/02 16:24, , 57F
中國以前游泳用藥紀錄的確比美國多 至少就被抓到的來說
08/02 16:24, 57F

08/02 16:25, , 58F
這只是Nature News,當成科普週刊看就好了。
08/02 16:25, 58F

08/02 16:27, , 59F
非爾普斯四年前一片歌功頌德XD
08/02 16:27, 59F

08/02 16:32, , 60F
無緣無故的質疑就是歧視 國籍也好 膚色也好 成績也好
08/02 16:32, 60F

08/02 16:33, , 61F
騎士吧 ~
08/02 16:33, 61F

08/02 17:04, , 62F
還不習慣而已 多輸幾次就好了
08/02 17:04, 62F

08/02 17:06, , 63F
08/02 17:06, 63F

08/02 20:24, , 64F
美國老大思想
08/02 20:24, 64F

08/02 21:21, , 65F
Science是不是要發文質疑Phelps?
08/02 21:21, 65F

08/03 23:17, , 66F
so?
08/03 23:17, 66F
※ 編輯: imgkiller 來自: 166.248.17.200 (08/04 04:01)

08/07 00:41, , 67F
美國狗
08/07 00:41, 67F
文章代碼(AID): #1G6Z5BXo (Olympics_ISG)
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