[Wang] What’s wrong with Chien-Ming Wang?

看板NY-Yankees作者時間15年前 (2009/04/15 18:50), 編輯推噓26(26042)
留言68則, 27人參與, 最新討論串1/1
http://tinyurl.com/cxq6gp The Yanks are buried 2.5 games back of the first place Blue Jays with only 155 games left to play (/hyperbole), but perhaps the biggest problem facing them right now is Chien-Ming Wang. The incumbent ace has been absolutely brutal in his two starts this year, allowing (gulp) 21 baserunners and 15 earned runs in just four and two-third innings pitched. That makes Sidney Ponson look like Roy frickin’ Halladay. The more troubling part is how Wang just doesn’t look like himself at all; his pitches are all up in the zone, his velocity is down, and his sinker isn’t sinking. This might not be something that just started last week either. Wang had a 1.56 WHIP and a 6.00 ERA in his previous six starts before lisfrancing his foot last summer, suggesting that something might have been wrong going back as far as last year. Of course that ten month layoff doesn’t help any, but we can still look at the data to see if we can find anything. Wang did have a good but not great Spring Training (21.2 IP, 25 H, 16 R, 10 ER, 4 BB, 10 K, 3 HR), however no one in their right mind would use Spring Training stats to evaluate anything, especially for a player with a signficant track record. Let’s compare three versions of Chien-Ming Wang using Pitch f/x: 1. Pre-May 18th, 2008: This was the light’s out CMW last year, when he had a 2.90 ERA and a 1.17 WHIP through his first nine starts and 59 IP. 2. Post-May 18th, 2008: Wang had his first of a series of clunkers on May 18th last year, which marks the point of that 6.00 ERA/1.56 WHIP era I mentioned earlier. I fail at labeling, but this version includes his May 18th start. 3. 2009: This year’s pair of starts, i.e. the really, really crappy version of CMW. I’m going to focus on Wang’s two main pitches in this analysis: his sinking fastball and slider. He’s also been known to throw changeups, splitters, and even the occasional curveball, but because he throws them so rarely it’s not worth the time and effort to take a deeper look at them. I’m going to start with the pitch trajectories as always, and to make life easier I gave fastballs and sliders their own individual graphs. Make sure you remember to click each graph for a larger, squinting at a computer screen has to be bad for your eyes. Fun starts after the jump. Looking at the fastballs first, you can see that the horizontal release point of the three versions are different, but the pitches typically end up at the same spot. That means that the post-May 18th fastball has less movement than the pre-May 18th version, and the 2009 version has even less movement than that. That’s not good, Wang’s a guy who needs his fastball to dart and dive and all that jazz. You can also see that his ‘09 slider isn’t moving as much as the ‘08 versions. Now, the look as if you were standing at first base: This view shows is that Wang is releasing both pitches from a higher spot this year than he did last. The fastball still has vertical drop, but it’s not moving horizontally as much, which you can see in the bird’s eye look. Let’s take a look from the catcher’s view: More than anything, this view just gives you a different look at the above. His pitches are still moving vertically in a way similar to last year, but they definitely don’t have the same kind of side-to-side movement. To further drive home that point: I haven’t posted one of these movement plots on RAB yet, so let me explain. It’s simple, don’t worry. The x-axis shows the horizontal movement of the pitch with 0 meaning it’s straight as an arrow. A negative value means the pitch moves in on righties, a positive value means it moves in on lefties. The y-axis is the vertical movement of the pitch compared to a ball thrown with zero spin. Fastballs have big numbers because they have more carry on them then this mythical zero rotation pitch, but breaking balls have small numbers because they move more. Curveballs are usually in the negatives, as are super elite sliders (think Brad Lidge). The units in this graph are inches. So, from this you can see that his fastball still has the same kind of vertical movement as last year, but it’s just not riding as hard horizontally. The slider’s dropping a bit more but not moving as much horizontally as last year. All of this is consistent with everything presented above. These trajectory and movement plots are fun to look at, but all they really show are results, the results of his pitching motion, and apparently that’s the problem. From Pete Abe: Wang seemed stunned. He said the issue was where he released the ball, which was off to the side instead of over the top. A sinkerball pitcher wants to stand tall on the mound and throw the ball on a downward plane. Otherwise the ball floats over the strike zone and you see what happens. That sounds good and make sense, but the data doesn’t agree. Here’s a look at Wang’s release points: If you haven’t seen these before, make sure you read RAB more often the point 0,0 is the center of the front of home plate, so the x-axis shows you how far away from the middle of the plate you are, and the y-axis shows you how far you are above the ground. Now, there’s a couple things going on here. First of all, those post-May 18th points that are mixed in with the pre-May 18th points are scattered over several starts. It’s not like all those pitches came from one or two starts, they’re spread out over all six starts. Secondly, it’s very likely that the difference in the general horizontal location of the pitches is caused by Wang move more towards the first base side of the rubber, but we’re focusing on the vertical location since Wang said he wanted to come more over the top. In general, Wang’s throwing the ball from a spot about six inches higher this year than he did last year, no matter if you consider the good ‘08 Wang or the bad ‘08 Wang. That contradicts what he said after the game, but that doesn’t mean he’s lying or the data’s wrong. It’s entirely possible that he wants to release the ball from an even higher spot than he currently is, but I have to ask why? I mean, if throwing it from a slightly lower slot worked last year, why change it? I’m no pitching coach or pitching mechanics expert, so I won’t even attempt to answer those questions. All I do know is that for some reason Wang is releasing the ball from a higher spot than last year and yet he still wants to come even more over the top. Finally, lets take a look at his velocity, because it’s definitely been down this year. That graphs encompassed a ton of pitches, 1,227 to be exact. Last year he was sitting at 91-93 pretty consistently, except for that one start which was probably a dead arm thing considering it was preceded by a spike in velocity (maybe he was overthrowing in a big start and wore himself down). This year Wang is sitting only 89-91, a small but definitely notable drop. This could be from bad mechanics, a dead arm period, injury, or about a million other things. The team already shot down injury and said it was just a mechanical issue, and I believe them because Wang didn’t appear to be in any obvious pain, he was more disgusted with himself. I don’t know what’s wrong with Chien-Ming Wang, but whatever it is, it’s causing him to lose movement on his pitches as well as velocity. Maybe it’s just rust from the long injury layoff. Disirregardless, I hope he gets himself straightened out sooner rather than later. The cool part about the ‘ 09 Yanks is that even though CMW is struggling, they can still trot out four quality starters. When’s the last time we could say that? -- 看來王葛格的低潮有可能是因為出手點太高的關係,導致伸卡球橫向位移不足 和我之前看轉播猜測的一樣 (葛格出手姿勢真的有改變的感覺,好像有點拉太快又太高的樣子,出手時也有刻意下壓) -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 140.112.5.3

04/15 18:52, , 1F
不是出手點太低,造成只有橫移沒有下沉嗎?
04/15 18:52, 1F

04/15 18:53, , 2F
春訓葛格第一場不就很多人問說怎麼改成高壓了
04/15 18:53, 2F

04/15 18:54, , 3F
6 inches higher!? wow....
04/15 18:54, 3F

04/15 18:54, , 4F
可是投教說在Bullpen時王的sinker沒有問題 至少代表他投的
04/15 18:54, 4F

04/15 18:54, , 5F
我沒看春訓,純粹是昨天看轉播感覺怪怪的
04/15 18:54, 5F

04/15 18:55, , 6F
出來 只是不知道為什麼無法帶進正式比賽
04/15 18:55, 6F

04/15 18:55, , 7F
手拉起來的時間很早,和以往的印象不同
04/15 18:55, 7F

04/15 18:55, , 8F
只能有待投教去解決這些問題
04/15 18:55, 8F

04/15 18:56, , 9F
比賽時有刻意下壓的感覺,不知是好是壞...
04/15 18:56, 9F

04/15 18:56, , 10F
變化球感覺有比較好
04/15 18:56, 10F

04/15 18:57, , 11F
我是不認為他會跟一堆酸民說的一樣一蹶不振,只是要花多少
04/15 18:57, 11F

04/15 18:57, , 12F
時間找回來的問題而已
04/15 18:57, 12F

04/15 18:59, , 13F
我猜一個月吧, 可是我總覺得會到五月多才會回穩
04/15 18:59, 13F

04/15 18:59, , 14F
希望不要就是了
04/15 18:59, 14F

04/15 19:00, , 15F
我今天有看
04/15 19:00, 15F

04/15 19:01, , 16F
沒想到繼Phil Hughes之後,再來是葛格提高arm slot XD...
04/15 19:01, 16F

04/15 19:02, , 17F
我猜理由都是差不多的吧讓Phil的curve更像12-6
04/15 19:02, 17F

04/15 19:02, , 18F
然後葛格是高壓讓他更有下沉的movement xD
04/15 19:02, 18F

04/15 19:02, , 19F
改回原來的吧 高壓本來球就比較直 也不方便投伸卡...
04/15 19:02, 19F

04/15 19:04, , 20F
今年與往年最大的不同就是高壓的姿勢啊...
04/15 19:04, 20F

04/15 19:06, , 21F
真的不需要去改有兩年以上實績投手的姿勢就是了-.-
04/15 19:06, 21F

04/15 19:06, , 22F
反正今年輪值有空間讓他慢慢調 只是再爆個幾場可能就得去RP
04/15 19:06, 22F

04/15 19:07, , 23F
我是想不到教練團有理由改葛格的姿勢
04/15 19:07, 23F

04/15 19:07, , 24F
位置來調整了
04/15 19:07, 24F

04/15 19:07, , 25F
多半是他自己的想法吧
04/15 19:07, 25F

04/15 19:08, , 26F
這樣做很危險,可能變成下個Zito...
04/15 19:08, 26F

04/15 19:08, , 27F
看狀況吧 反正他也不是無法丟出他最強的sinker
04/15 19:08, 27F

04/15 19:08, , 28F
改姿勢就沒辦法了阿XD
04/15 19:08, 28F

04/15 19:10, , 29F
是真的有可能改不回來...
04/15 19:10, 29F

04/15 19:10, , 30F
高壓投法是不是比較容易傷肩膀?
04/15 19:10, 30F

04/15 19:11, , 31F
投教說他sinker狀況不錯是在上次先發前一天的事情吧 不太可
04/15 19:11, 31F

04/15 19:11, , 32F
能才隔一天就再見吧 只是無法在實戰丟出
04/15 19:11, 32F

04/15 19:12, , 33F
葛格在牛棚丟的是好是壞,外人也無從得知
04/15 19:12, 33F

04/15 19:12, , 34F
也只能聽投教的一面之詞
04/15 19:12, 34F

04/15 19:14, , 35F
至少這是我們唯一可以收到的訊息了 投教唬爛我也沒辦法Orz
04/15 19:14, 35F

04/15 19:42, , 36F
快找古椎回來幫忙吧...
04/15 19:42, 36F

04/15 19:54, , 37F
古椎現在到哪去了阿
04/15 19:54, 37F

04/15 20:00, , 38F
家裡
04/15 20:00, 38F

04/15 20:07, , 39F
我很好奇如果今日的投教換成Moose效果不知道如何
04/15 20:07, 39F

04/15 20:08, , 40F
目前這個很好啊,為什麼要換?
04/15 20:08, 40F

04/15 20:08, , 41F
六月應該就回神了 小孩出世來祝運
04/15 20:08, 41F

04/15 20:11, , 42F
沒有說不好啦 只是單純好奇
04/15 20:11, 42F

04/15 20:11, , 43F
(其實是私心想繼續看到Moose待在洋基 XD)
04/15 20:11, 43F

04/15 20:12, , 44F
我覺得該找古錐回來 至少古錐在的時候王不曾這樣過
04/15 20:12, 44F

04/15 20:15, , 45F
我是覺得不用太久就應該調整的回來了啦
04/15 20:15, 45F

04/15 20:16, , 46F
Moose會問王建民你累不累? 下場能先發嗎? XD
04/15 20:16, 46F

04/15 20:27, , 47F
我無法想像那畫面XD
04/15 20:27, 47F

04/15 20:32, , 48F
樓樓上笑死我了~哈 話中有話~XDD
04/15 20:32, 48F

04/15 20:33, , 49F
我的意思是請他回來幫個忙,不是換他當投教
04/15 20:33, 49F

04/15 20:35, , 50F
之前不是說MLB不會亂改姿勢 口去
04/15 20:35, 50F

04/15 20:40, , 51F
可能阿肉沒站三壘王覺的氣場不太對0.0
04/15 20:40, 51F

04/15 21:33, , 52F
之前不是說放球點太低 sinker會橫著跑 不會下沉嗎
04/15 21:33, 52F

04/15 21:35, , 53F
怎麼現在又變成放球點太高了 暈
04/15 21:35, 53F

04/15 21:36, , 54F
有辦法 又橫著跑又下沉嗎 xd
04/15 21:36, 54F

04/15 22:31, , 55F
對METS 10K那場應該就是吧 只用一次 完美版本? Orz不要吧
04/15 22:31, 55F

04/15 23:37, , 56F
有 去年對CLE跟CC 1:0那場有一球Sinker就是超扯
04/15 23:37, 56F

04/15 23:42, , 57F
小王沒受傷恢復手感我覺得沒問題,只是時間長短而已..
04/15 23:42, 57F

04/15 23:46, , 58F
改高壓只會讓伸卡球吃大便而已
04/15 23:46, 58F

04/15 23:51, , 59F
下一場在爆就可以把Hughes拉上來了 小王就丟到牛棚
04/15 23:51, 59F

04/15 23:51, , 60F
消耗局數時讓他沒有壓力的調整應該是個不錯方法
04/15 23:51, 60F

04/16 00:16, , 61F
是怎樣??王不是伸卡球有問題好嗎?是控球有問題..球打出去
04/16 00:16, 61F

04/16 00:17, , 62F
不是安打就是出局但他投了不少保送....
04/16 00:17, 62F

04/16 00:46, , 63F
我也認為六月會回穩 有道是取某前生子後...
04/16 00:46, 63F

04/16 02:23, , 64F
伸卡頭不好可換四縫 二縫 變速 滑球搭配 其他球種也很重要
04/16 02:23, 64F

04/16 02:24, , 65F
以洋基今年砸下重金來看 沒那個耐心等到六月 頂多再一二場
04/16 02:24, 65F

04/16 03:24, , 66F
他投保送是因為除了直球伸卡球以外的變化球原本就不成熟阿
04/16 03:24, 66F

04/16 03:25, , 67F
這兩場在伸卡甜的要死不能一直投的狀況下 變化球又控不進去
04/16 03:25, 67F

04/16 03:25, , 68F
就會BB連發了
04/16 03:25, 68F
文章代碼(AID): #19vRlqAp (NY-Yankees)