Re: [討論] Kobe在關鍵時刻為什麼常常軟掉?

看板NBA作者 (另一旅程的開始)時間6年前 (2018/02/14 05:35), 6年前編輯推噓24(502647)
留言123則, 80人參與, 6年前最新討論串2/3 (看更多)
原文:http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about- kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time 翻譯:kart 類似的文章不少,作者自己也提了, 不過這篇文章比較特別的是...他列出了比較負面的例子... The truth about Kobe Bryant in crunch time By Henry Abbott/ESPN 關於Kobe在關鍵時刻的真相。 At the end of Game 2 of the 2009 Finals, the Magic knew who to guard, and got the block. 在2009冠軍賽第二場關鍵時刻,魔術知道要防守誰,也成功的蓋了「他」火鍋。 Ask pundits. Ask general managers. Ask players. Ask almost anybody. Who would like to have take the last shot with the game on the line? 問任何與NBA有關的人,最後一擊要給誰? Kobe Bryant wins by a country mile. Every time. (In a general manager poll this season, he earned 79% of the vote, his ninth consecutive blowout.) Kobe幾乎每次都在類似投票中大幅度領先(本季對個球隊經理的調查, 他以高達79%的比例連續九年獲得壓倒性勝利。) There is not really any other serious candidate. 幾乎沒有人能在這項投票中望其項背。 Ask me, though, (as Ryen Russillo did last week and Mike Trudell the other day) and I'll tell you I don't know who's the best, but with all due respect to Bryant's amazing abilities scoring the ball, there's zero chance he's the king of crunch time. 如果你要問我(或是之前有在注意關鍵時刻的專業球評),   那我會跟你說我不知道誰是最好的,我也非常尊敬Kobe驚人的得分能力, 但是他百分之百(幾近0%)不會是關鍵時刻的王者。 The sin of predictability 觀察一:可預測性 Bryant makes crunch time defense easy for opponents by shooting just about every time he touches the ball (over a five-year period, he mustered 56 clutch shots, to go with one assist). Kobe的可預測性在於他幾乎一碰到球就一定要射, 讓關鍵時刻對手對他的防守相對簡單許多。 (過去五年中關鍵時刻中他總共投了56球,只有一個助攻) Fans of his raw machismo howl that such criticism misses the point, but the point is that when Bryant gets the ball in crunch time, it's a virtual certainty that he'll shoot it, and it's better than two-to-one odds that he'll miss. 很多Kobe迷喜歡嚎叫說批評者搞不清楚狀況。 但是重點是Kobe在關鍵時刻幾乎肯定一拿到球他就一定要出手, 而且有遠大於50%的機會他會投失。 In 1997, he famously airballed two shots that could have beat the Jazz -- instead the Jazz won the series. In 1999, he whiffed on a 3-pointer at the buzzer that would have tied Game 2 against the Spurs. In Game 4 against the Kings in 2002, he missed a 2-pointer that would have tied the game (before the ball was tipped out to Robert Horry for the winning 3). In Game 7 of that same series, Bryant missed a tip that would have won the game in regulation. In Game 3 against the Timberwolves in 2003, he missed two key shots in the last seconds of overtime, and the Lakers lost. 1997年,Kobe在季後賽對爵士投了有名的兩顆籃外空心,   而這兩顆如果進了就有可能拿下1場,最後卻是爵士把湖人橫掃。 1999年,他在季後賽第二場對馬刺投失一棵可能追平的三分。 2002年第四戰對上國王,他投失了一個可追平的兩分球。   (雖然結果球彈到Robert Horry手上投進致勝三分)   在第七戰時Kobe一個補籃不進,否則可以不用打延長賽。   2003年第三戰對上灰狼,他最後連續投失了兩球導致輸球。 I'll spare you the entire list, but it's long. In the final 24 seconds of playoff games, Bryant has racked up almost as many airballs as makes, making just below 30 percent of game-tying or go-ahead shots. He hasn't hit such a shot in a playoff game, in fact, since 2008, including key misses in the closing moments against the Jazz and Magic in 2009, and the Thunder and Suns last spring. He made one of his four shots in the fourth quarter of Game 7 of last year's Finals. 舉凡種種,不甚枚舉,我也不想統統列出來給你們看, 只能說名單很長很可怕。 但是在季後賽裡,   最後24秒進攻中的Kobe投進的球跟他投出的籃外空心差不多一樣多,   總計命中率不到30%。 事實上,自從2008年以後他在季後賽就沒有在關鍵時刻投中過了,   包括2009年對上爵士和魔術,和2010年對上雷霆和太陽。 而他在去年的總冠軍賽第七場第四節只勉強投進一球。 No matter how you define crunch time -- from the last five minutes of the fourth quarter or overtime to the last 24 seconds -- and no matter how you define production -- field goal percentage, offensive efficiency, David Berri's Wins Produced, the results tell the same story: Bryant is about as likely to hit the big shot as any player. 不管你怎樣定義關鍵時刻--常規賽最後五分鐘和延長賽,或是只算最後24秒 --   也不管你要怎麼計算一個球員的貢獻 -- 命中率、進攻效率,帶來的勝場精算等等,   結果通常只有一個:Kobe關鍵時刻的表現很一般,跟一般球員沒啥兩樣。 ESPN Stats and Information's Alok Pattani dug through 15 years of NBA data (see table below) -- Bryant's entire career, regular season and playoffs -- and found that Bryant has attempted 115 shots in the final 24 seconds of a game in which the Lakers were tied or trailed by two or fewer points. He connected on 36, and missed 79 times. 根據我們ESPN的統計,過去15年來(請看下表),也就是Kobe的全部生涯在內,   包括所有季賽和季後賽,Kobe在最後24秒球隊落後或平手的局面, 他總共投了115顆,進了36顆,投失了79顆。 One shot for all the cookies. And the NBA is nearly unanimous that this is the guy to take it, even though he has more than twice as many misses as makes? 怕了吧,所有NBA一致舉手通過要給他投最後一擊的人,   即使他有超過兩倍的機率投失,遠多於投進。 His crunch time production is slightly higher in the first half of this season, but still certainly not the best in the league. And analyzing any large number of games, one year, five years or fifteen years, and defining crunch time a number of different ways, shows the same pattern. (There are a many ways this has been sliced.) 他今年這方面的表現比他的平均值好一點點,但是顯然跟最好差很多。 重點是不管你怎麼分析 -- 只算某年,只算某五年,   或算上過去15年,結果還是一樣的。 Bryant shoots more than most, passes less, and racks up misses at an all-time rate. There is no measure, other than YouTube highlights and folklore, by which he's the best scorer in crunch time. Kobe關鍵時刻出手比是最高的,傳球非常稀有,而且投失球數正在往史上新高邁 進。所有統計都顯示,除了Youtube和高光以外,他絕對不是關鍵時刻最好的得分手。 With the game on the line Trailing by one or two points, or tied, in the final 24 seconds of regular-season and playoff games since 1996- 97, with a minimum of 30 shots. From Alok Pattani of ESPN Stats & Information. 以下是從96-97年開始統計,   在24秒內,球隊落後0-2分時,球員出手表現。   (包括季賽和季後賽,出手數超過30次以上) Player Makes Attempts FG% Carmelo Anthony 21 44 47.7 Chris Paul 14 31 45.2 Shawn Marion 12 30 40 Brandon Roy 12 30 40 Hedo Turkoglu 12 30 40 Rashard Lewis 18 46 39.1 Glenn Robinson 14 36 38.9 Deron Williams 14 36 38.9 Mike Bibby 15 39 38.5 Dirk Nowitzki 25 65 38.5 Jalen Rose 12 32 37.5 Tim Duncan 23 62 37.1 Eddie Jones 13 36 36.1 Karl Malone 11 31 35.5 Ben Gordon 17 49 34.7 Chris Webber 18 52 34.6 Raymond Felton 12 36 33.3 LeBron James 23 69 33.3 Ray Allen 23 70 32.9 Gilbert Arenas 13 40 32.5 Vince Carter 31 96 32.3 Steve Francis 14 44 31.8 Damon Stoudamire 12 38 31.6 Nick Van Exel 16 51 31.4 Kobe Bryant 36 115 31.3 Jason Terry 14 45 31.1 Allen Iverson 21 68 30.9 Kevin Garnett 22 72 30.6 Ron Artest 9 30 30 Allan Houston 12 41 29.3 Entire league 2038 6861 29.7 (統計至:1/28/11 10:43 AM ET 為止。) The un-clutch Lakers 觀察二:關鍵時刻讓湖人無法發揮 One of the key arguments in his favor is that he draws double-teams, which allows other Lakers to score. But that doesn't seem to happen much. Over Bryant's 15-year career, the Lakers have had the NBA's best offense, and second-best won-loss record. No other team can match their mighty 109 points per 100 possessions over the entire period. Kobe迷常常爭論說Kobe屌的就是他關鍵時刻能吸引包夾,   這樣其他人不是就有機會了嗎。   但是不幸的是,這個現象並沒有發生太多。 在Kobe 15年的生涯之中,湖人隊是這15年以來全NBA攻擊最好的球隊, 而且擁有第二高的輸贏比。   沒有任何一隊可以接近他們的進攻效率(每100次進攻能得109分) You'd expect Los Angeles to also have one of the league's best offenses in crunch time, right? Especially with the ball in the hands of the player most suited to those moments. 在這麼顯眼的數字下你會期待照理來說湖人隊在關鍵時刻表現應該也不俗,對嗎?   尤其是還有公認關鍵時刻最強的人在隊上,不是嗎? That's not what happens, though. In the final 24 seconds of close games the Laker offense regresses horribly, managing just 82 points per 100 possessions. And it's not a simple case of every team having a hard time scoring in crunch time. Over Bryant's career, 11 teams have had better crunch time offenses, led by the Hornets with a shocking 107 points per 100 possessions in crunch time, a huge credit to Chris Paul. 但是這並沒有如人們想像般發生。 事實上,如果只看關鍵時刻的24秒,   湖人隊的進攻效率下降到爛透了的每100次進攻才有82分的效率,   而且這並不是因為關鍵時刻通常任何NBA球隊都表現不好。   在Kobe的生涯中(15年來),有11隊比湖人隊在關鍵時刻都有效率,   最有效率的是黃蜂隊,關鍵時刻每100次進攻可以得107分,這要感謝CP3的強力加持。 The Lakers are not among the league leaders in crunch time offense -- instead they're just about average, scoring 82.35 points per 100 possessions in a league that averages 80.03. They are, however, among the league leaders in how much worse their offense declines in crunch time. 上面說了,湖人隊並不是關鍵時刻進攻最好的球隊,   只在平均值(每100次進攻得80分)。 不過他們在平常進攻效率和關鍵時刻進攻效率的差值,倒是全聯盟最大的。 (109分下降到82分!) When Bryant is on the floor in crunch time, Bryant's Lakers are actually outscored by their opponents. 之前有文章提過,當Kobe關鍵時刻在場上時,   湖人得分效率其實是輸給對手的。(就連+/-值都是負值) A great offensive team performing at average levels, with a star setting records for number of shots attempted. Teammates left wide open. Evidence, even, that Bryant's play puts his team into nailbiters that needn't be so close. 一個強大進攻效率的球隊,到了關鍵時刻表現平平,   隊中有一個球星不斷創造投球數的紀錄,而隊友通常都是有大空檔。 這些都是Kobe讓他所處的球隊處於不利位置的證據。 That, my friends, is a ballhog. 我的讀者朋友們,這就叫做自幹王。   -   心得:   該死的Horry不愧為季後賽先生。   看到板上近來討論 KOBE 的絕殺首選問題,故把收藏已久的文章搬出來給各位看看。 不過我想無論是在任何情況下,湖人的絕殺首選仍舊會是 KOBE。   不過,真正的絕殺王者是:卡梅龍安東瓜。 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 66.152.115.226 ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/NBA/M.1518557754.A.DA3.html

02/14 05:36, 6年前 , 1F
只能說Kobe印象分數太好.但實際命中率很差
02/14 05:36, 1F

02/14 05:42, 6年前 , 2F
Melo那是什麼可怕的數據
02/14 05:42, 2F

02/14 05:42, 6年前 , 3F
打完自己推是什麼意思?
02/14 05:42, 3F

02/14 05:42, 6年前 , 4F
比平常還高那麼多
02/14 05:42, 4F

02/14 05:44, 6年前 , 5F
可能忘記換
02/14 05:44, 5F

02/14 05:49, 6年前 , 6F
關鍵時刻Kobe肯定出手 反觀某皇怕數據不好看丟炸彈
02/14 05:49, 6F

02/14 05:50, 6年前 , 7F
你這個文章很久了,計算數據的方式也沒有上兩篇細
02/14 05:50, 7F

02/14 05:56, 6年前 , 8F
自己不能推喔~ 只能加註解
02/14 05:56, 8F

02/14 06:04, 6年前 , 9F
學到一個英文單字了
02/14 06:04, 9F

02/14 06:09, 6年前 , 10F
魔術關鍵勝利一場,然後場場被KB屠殺好像沒說服力?
02/14 06:09, 10F

02/14 06:09, 6年前 , 11F
rw等等會上場ㄇ
02/14 06:09, 11F

02/14 06:26, 6年前 , 12F
問題是數據不太充足,全列出來檢驗比較好
02/14 06:26, 12F

02/14 06:27, 6年前 , 13F
你不是第一個酸的 也不會是最後一個
02/14 06:27, 13F

02/14 06:31, 6年前 , 14F
Kobe強就強在精神 不像某人關鍵時刻在那邊傳球靠
02/14 06:31, 14F

02/14 06:31, 6年前 , 15F
隊友 難怪會想轉隊 那邊逃避 哈哈哈
02/14 06:31, 15F

02/14 06:42, 6年前 , 16F
上一篇比較簡單直接 這篇只是字很多而已
02/14 06:42, 16F

02/14 06:43, 6年前 , 17F
其他人出手次數夠多嗎? 樣本值要夠統計才有意義
02/14 06:43, 17F

02/14 06:48, 6年前 , 18F
趕快拉姆斯救援囉
02/14 06:48, 18F

02/14 06:51, 6年前 , 19F
拉姆斯救援幹嘛 姆斯關鍵時刻就比較爛啊zzzzz
02/14 06:51, 19F

02/14 06:55, 6年前 , 20F
趕快比爛啊 顯得自己較強
02/14 06:55, 20F

02/14 06:55, 6年前 , 21F
所以精神可以得分嗎 別傻啦 這篇完全沒說到姆斯也能
02/14 06:55, 21F

02/14 06:55, 6年前 , 22F
被拉救援 真的NBA史上最偉大救援王耶
02/14 06:55, 22F

02/14 06:56, 6年前 , 23F
看到沒有 某迷邏輯談到Kobe每當數據被屌打 就會開
02/14 06:56, 23F

02/14 06:56, 6年前 , 24F
始扯精神了 無一例外XD
02/14 06:56, 24F

02/14 06:56, 6年前 , 25F
因為有什麼他自創的曼巴精神啊 不意外
02/14 06:56, 25F

02/14 06:58, 6年前 , 26F
不是印象分數吧 硬要吹而已
02/14 06:58, 26F

02/14 07:05, 6年前 , 27F
精神?
02/14 07:05, 27F

02/14 07:06, 6年前 , 28F
啊詹迷就是精神 數據都輸啊 還要比什麼 轉隊次數
02/14 07:06, 28F

02/14 07:06, 6年前 , 29F
嗎 好啦恭喜James 2>0
02/14 07:06, 29F

02/14 07:06, 6年前 , 30F
這篇數據都有寫啊 是哪里有問題了
02/14 07:06, 30F
※ 編輯: buggie (66.152.115.226), 02/14/2018 07:10:49

02/14 07:14, 6年前 , 31F
精神XDDC
02/14 07:14, 31F

02/14 07:15, 6年前 , 32F
推啊
02/14 07:15, 32F

02/14 07:19, 6年前 , 33F
原來自幹是好事呢!
02/14 07:19, 33F

02/14 07:24, 6年前 , 34F
NBA是商業行為 關鍵時刻光看他雖千萬人吾往矣 不管
02/14 07:24, 34F

02/14 07:25, 6年前 , 35F
有沒有投進 主場球迷跟電視前的Kobe迷也能接受
02/14 07:25, 35F

02/14 07:27, 6年前 , 36F
不過勇箭賽刺的團隊打法已慢慢扭轉這種英雄主義
02/14 07:27, 36F

02/14 07:27, 6年前 , 37F
老大的命中率數據看不出來
02/14 07:27, 37F

02/14 07:30, 6年前 , 38F
有時候也蠻懷念老大的 湖人隊有比賽版上都鬧哄哄
02/14 07:30, 38F
還有 45 則推文
02/14 09:28, 6年前 , 84F
因為瓜沒大歐和咖獸三塔等強力隊友阿
02/14 09:28, 84F

02/14 09:44, 6年前 , 85F
哈哈,槍西、AI、Camby、阿嬤都哭哭了
02/14 09:44, 85F

02/14 09:46, 6年前 , 86F
給ksk:原文自己就提到LBJ了,搞清楚先後順序
02/14 09:46, 86F

02/14 09:47, 6年前 , 87F
最被高估的球員 沒有之一
02/14 09:47, 87F

02/14 09:55, 6年前 , 88F
季後賽關鍵時刻都是KB在 carry XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
02/14 09:55, 88F

02/14 09:58, 6年前 , 89F
幸運板JR不意外
02/14 09:58, 89F

02/14 10:04, 6年前 , 90F
02/14 10:04, 90F

02/14 10:14, 6年前 , 91F
中肯
02/14 10:14, 91F

02/14 10:24, 6年前 , 92F
好知道了
02/14 10:24, 92F

02/14 10:27, 6年前 , 93F
造神說什麼曼巴精神,肉包精神還差不多
02/14 10:27, 93F

02/14 10:30, 6年前 , 94F
不信任隊友,唉
02/14 10:30, 94F

02/14 10:31, 6年前 , 95F
每次都講關鍵時刻 到底是30秒比較關鍵還是5分鐘
02/14 10:31, 95F

02/14 10:31, 6年前 , 96F
2分鐘落後0-2分跟2分鐘內三分差那個比較合理啊
02/14 10:31, 96F

02/14 10:32, 6年前 , 97F
不講清楚 雞同鴨講 結果就是戰不完
02/14 10:32, 97F

02/14 10:40, 6年前 , 98F
得證:甜瓜>>>>腿詹
02/14 10:40, 98F

02/14 10:41, 6年前 , 99F

02/14 10:52, 6年前 , 100F
某迷真的是不看一下數據,不然就是徦裝沒看到
02/14 10:52, 100F

02/14 10:53, 6年前 , 101F
好啦 下去領500
02/14 10:53, 101F

02/14 11:01, 6年前 , 102F
呵 之前不是有人解密KB早在選秀前,就去湖人運作,
02/14 11:01, 102F

02/14 11:01, 6年前 , 103F
這算聰明透頂,KB愚蠢了嗎?
02/14 11:01, 103F

02/14 11:21, 6年前 , 104F
這篇還是沒有解釋為什麼Kobe這麼爛,全NBA的球員最
02/14 11:21, 104F

02/14 11:21, 6年前 , 105F
後一擊還是會交給他
02/14 11:21, 105F

02/14 11:22, 6年前 , 106F
難道其他NBA球員只會看youtube高光?
02/14 11:22, 106F

02/14 11:32, 6年前 , 107F
看到kart直接end
02/14 11:32, 107F

02/14 11:39, 6年前 , 108F
又在說不利的數據了 以後科不利的數據都不算
02/14 11:39, 108F

02/14 11:52, 6年前 , 109F
對對對 幸運丁尺
02/14 11:52, 109F

02/14 12:09, 6年前 , 110F
02/14 12:09, 110F

02/14 12:27, 6年前 , 111F
給別人投 不如自己幹進
02/14 12:27, 111F

02/14 13:04, 6年前 , 112F
瓜瓜真王者
02/14 13:04, 112F

02/14 13:10, 6年前 , 113F
笑死 硬湊喔
02/14 13:10, 113F

02/14 13:26, 6年前 , 114F
你不知道上一篇找了數據找很久,終於找到一個05-07
02/14 13:26, 114F

02/14 13:26, 6年前 , 115F
贏的,然後一堆__看了直接高潮嗎?呵呵
02/14 13:26, 115F

02/14 13:28, 6年前 , 116F
不利結果五冠,那屎上最大團484該解散了?
02/14 13:28, 116F

02/14 13:28, 6年前 , 117F
阿,還真解散惹
02/14 13:28, 117F

02/14 14:36, 6年前 , 118F
02/14 14:36, 118F

02/14 14:38, 6年前 , 119F
這篇中肯 明明兩屆MVP Nash大空檔硬不傳
02/14 14:38, 119F

02/14 14:39, 6年前 , 120F
看直播時只能搖頭
02/14 14:39, 120F

02/14 14:41, 6年前 , 121F
科黑用英文寫不會比較高級
02/14 14:41, 121F

02/14 20:55, 6年前 , 122F
因為更多人連出手都有問題,還談什麼命中率!
02/14 20:55, 122F

02/14 22:06, 6年前 , 123F
推一下絕殺王者瓜
02/14 22:06, 123F
文章代碼(AID): #1QWrewsZ (NBA)
文章代碼(AID): #1QWrewsZ (NBA)