Re: [BOX ] Thunder 101:98 Jazz 技術統計已回收

看板NBA作者 (你為什麼要那麼著急呢?)時間10年前 (2013/10/31 15:39), 編輯推噓20(288110)
留言146則, 46人參與, 最新討論串3/3 (看更多)
[古聞] Pippen評論Kobe的單場81分:時代背景規則不同怎能比較? Can't Compare Kobe and MJ The eras in which they played are completely different Kobe 和 MJ 不能相互比較,因為他們所處的時代是完全不同的 Kobe Bryant's 81-point performance the other night against Toronto was certainly incredible, but it is unfair to try and compare what Kobe did to what Michael Jordan did in his playing career or what he could have done for that matter. 科比得81分絕對是非常了不起的表現,但是因為這樣便認為科比已經可以和麥可喬丹比肩 ,對喬丹並不公平:不管我們看的是生涯表現,還是單場最高得分。 In the era when Michael played, it was a physical game. Defense was promoted. Guys took pride in it. Today defense is no longer a part of the game. Guys are driving to the basket. There are rules where you can't step in front of them. To me, it is taking away from the game seeing a guy like Tony Parker taking advantage of the rules. He is shooting 55 percent from the field. That says something about the game itself. In the history of the NBA, I'm sure a point guard has never led the league in field goal percentage. It's a different game now. It's really not about being tough and physical because the NBA isn't a physical game anymore. When you talk about how the Knicks and Bulls used to battle in the early '90s, the Oakleys, and Pat Ewings, the Masons, and how they would have the ability to use their hands to put you in a trap position. There is no way you can even triple team a guy now and stop him. Any contact is a foul. I can't compare the two players because I see it as two different games. If I'm guarding Kobe Bryant in today's game, I couldn't be the defender I was known as. 麥可當球員那個時代,聯盟的肢體碰撞強度遠勝現在,當時聯盟鼓勵防守,許多球員也以 強悍的防守自豪;現在聯盟鼓勵進攻,新規則不允許防守者以身體預先阻斷持球者的行進 路線,所以球員可以如入無人之境的切入籃下;對我來說,看到馬刺的帕克利用這個規則 恣意切入得分,總覺得這樣的球賽有些缺憾。NBA歷史上好像還沒有控球後衛命中率領先 聯盟的,但是看看帕克今年55%的命中率,你應該知道現在的比賽已經和過去不一樣了。 強悍的肢體防守不再受聯盟青睞。回想90年代初期公牛和尼克的殊死戰,老鬼(Oakley) 、猩猩(Ewing)、梅森(Mason)這些傢伙的防守,他們可以用手把你往預先設下的陷阱裏推 ;現在呢?三夾都不一定守的住一個人,因為只要一有肢體接觸就是犯規。我沒辦法比較 科比和喬丹兩個人,因為比賽完全不同,我只知道如果我在今天的規則下守科比,我不會 是過去那個以防守令人喪膽的Pippen …………略 If you want to say that Kobe could get 100, I would say that Michael could get 100. If Kobe could get 81, I think Michael could get 100 in today's game. I think the psychological style that Michael was able to master in the game, puts him far beyond Kobe. But Kobe's youthfulness has put him in a position where it looks like he is overtaking Michael. Kobe has 10 years in this league. That is a lot of experience to have and still be a very youthful player. 如果你認為科比可以挑戰100分,我會告訴你麥可也可以;科比剛剛得了81分,我想如果 麥可來打今天的比賽,他會得100分!麥可場上的心理素質遠勝科比,雖然看起來好像科 比已經超越了(同齡時的)麥可,但別忘了科比已經入行十年,論經驗來說他已經不算年 輕了。 ………略 With that said, I am sure Phil doesn't want to coach that type of game. It's not his style. I don't expect it to happen again. Phil will probably do everything in his power to make sure it doesn't. I don't think Phil is going to try to promote what Kobe has done more than anything because he has damaged his whole team. You just scored 81 points. Do you need your teammates? Are they going to step up when you need them or are you going to continue to pound them like you've been doing and be selfish just to get some individual accolades? 除了前面說的,我想菲爾也不想看到這樣的比賽,這不是菲爾喜歡的風格,他一定會想辦 法改變這種情形。我想菲爾不會允許科比繼續這樣下去,因為科比正在傷害整支球隊,你 一個人就可以拿81分,你要你的隊友幹嘛?反過來說,哪一天當你需要他們,他們能站出 來嗎?還是說你打算繼續壓抑他們的能力隻為了追求自我的榮耀? From a leadership perspective I think Kobe has taken a step back. Look at what he has to live up to now. You just scored 81 points. If you scored 81 points, your team should pretty much go out and win at least 75 percent of their games the rest of the year. Is that fair to say? You just compared yourself to Wilt. Can you go out with your team and do that or are you just going to go out and score tons of points every night? Are you going to get back to the point where you are shooting a lot of shots and you're teammates are not shooting and you're losing? 從領導能力的觀點來說,我想科比是不進反退了。看看科比過去受到的批評,如果你有單 場得81分的能力,你的球隊接下來應該要有75%的勝率,這個要求不過份吧?你自比為張 伯倫,可是你可以和你的隊友一起達成這個目標嗎?還是你在乎的隻是自己每天晚上的得 分?難道你又要回到過去那種自己射到爽,隊友涼到爽,然後球隊輸球的日子? Right now, Kobe has willed the Lakers to a 22-19 record. It will be interesting to see what happens the rest of the way. 目前在科比的加持下,湖人的戰績是22-19,接下來的戰績會如何,大家都在拭目以待。 ; Hand Check: 『防守者不得用手觸碰進攻方球員,除非他位於禁區,而且進攻球員背對籃框。 防守者可以在不影響進攻球員移動(意指速度、敏捷性、平衡及節奏)的前提下短暫的 觸碰進攻方。防守者可以在進攻方背向籃框且離籃框很近時,以前臂觸碰其背部以保 持有利的防守位置。除此之外,任何觸碰皆會被視為有犯規嫌疑。』 講白話一點,就是以前防守者通常都會去用你的前臂去架在對方的腰部附近,好施力增加 對抗性,不讓進攻者輕易的就吃掉你。現在可不行這樣囉!如果要這樣,應該第一節還沒 打完就會犯滿畢業下場了 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 203.73.175.247

10/31 15:43, , 1F
皮硼酸酸
10/31 15:43, 1F
※ 編輯: Joey818 來自: 203.73.175.247 (10/31 15:44)

10/31 15:45, , 2F
Kobe 81那場也才20罰,沒有特別多
10/31 15:45, 2F

10/31 15:48, , 3F
這規則真是和平
10/31 15:48, 3F

10/31 15:52, , 4F
重點不在於罰球數,而是在不同時空規則下,防守強度
10/31 15:52, 4F

10/31 15:52, , 5F
從根本上改變了,很多以前有利於防守的者動作不能作
10/31 15:52, 5F

10/31 15:53, , 6F
暴龍那場防守太誇張了,Kobe擺明要一直自幹,還不重
10/31 15:53, 6F

10/31 15:53, , 7F
因此對於進攻者壓制力降低
10/31 15:53, 7F

10/31 15:53, , 8F
點看管他
10/31 15:53, 8F

10/31 15:53, , 9F
討論罰球數根本呵呵
10/31 15:53, 9F

10/31 15:53, , 10F
老巴: PIP說的對 因為6>>>5
10/31 15:53, 10F

10/31 15:56, , 11F
權威開金口 眾人應仔細聆聽
10/31 15:56, 11F

10/31 15:56, , 12F
杜大哨爺: 乾爹 我不可以失去我的罰球
10/31 15:56, 12F

10/31 15:59, , 13F
里查是看不懂文?暴龍那場防守大家心知肚明
10/31 15:59, 13F

10/31 16:00, , 14F
非常強 而且暴龍全隊一定瘋狂堵摳比
10/31 16:00, 14F

10/31 16:02, , 15F
那麼久以前當然會有人過度期待KB8超越神
10/31 16:02, 15F

10/31 16:02, , 16F
就跟現在LBJ一樣 都是遲早被看破
10/31 16:02, 16F

10/31 16:04, , 17F
同理 中職的四壞球也沒比mlb多 可見好球帶是一樣的
10/31 16:04, 17F

10/31 16:06, , 18F
你會被迷迷噓,居然質疑仙人
10/31 16:06, 18F

10/31 16:11, , 19F
宇宙世界超級無敵中肯 大環境差太多
10/31 16:11, 19F

10/31 16:14, , 20F
以前常打籃球的同學教別人防守也是教hand check
10/31 16:14, 20F

10/31 16:14, , 21F
看來現在不能用了
10/31 16:14, 21F

10/31 16:16, , 22F
沒有hand check大概是開放區域防守的配套吧
10/31 16:16, 22F

10/31 16:16, , 23F
又hand check又區域防守大概不用得分了
10/31 16:16, 23F

10/31 16:18, , 24F
Pip沒拿過81分還敢酸老大
10/31 16:18, 24F

10/31 16:30, , 25F
MJ3分求看天吃飯,想DER一百分?
10/31 16:30, 25F

10/31 16:32, , 26F
以前能用手撐進攻者,現在不行了喔(沒研究)
10/31 16:32, 26F

10/31 16:33, , 27F
這誰?有五罐81分嗎?
10/31 16:33, 27F

10/31 16:36, , 28F
中肯好聞
10/31 16:36, 28F

10/31 16:37, , 29F
KOBE至少不會像KD LBJ WADE依樣假摔
10/31 16:37, 29F

10/31 16:42, , 30F
Pippen轉到火箭第一場比賽就被Kobe震撼教育,從此證明
10/31 16:42, 30F

10/31 16:44, , 31F
Pippen言過其實,證明不管什麼規則Kobe都能輕易得分
10/31 16:44, 31F

10/31 16:45, , 32F
不過現在聯盟防守不如以前是事實,沒辦法要捧皇帝嘛
10/31 16:45, 32F

10/31 16:46, , 33F
除了Phil那段之外還都有他的道理 之前湖人有一場靠
10/31 16:46, 33F

10/31 16:46, , 34F
Kobe發威第四節大反攻打贏小牛 Phil賽後還跟Kobe手握
10/31 16:46, 34F

10/31 16:47, , 35F
手舉高高表示他對那場比賽Kobe的感受
10/31 16:47, 35F

10/31 16:48, , 36F
靠,那Pippen你還有臉說LBJ可以打爆Jordan..
10/31 16:48, 36F

10/31 16:49, , 37F
在過去那個規則下,LBJ佔得了什麼便宜嗎...笑話
10/31 16:49, 37F

10/31 16:50, , 38F
KOBE要犯規幹嘛假摔 用手肘打別人鼻子就好啦
10/31 16:50, 38F
還有 68 則推文
10/31 19:44, , 107F
承認那天KOBE真的像神一樣很難嘛
10/31 19:44, 107F

10/31 20:58, , 108F
重點不在人盯人,而是非法防守規則的取消...
10/31 20:58, 108F

10/31 20:59, , 109F
說真的,眾所皆知防守佔位比肢體接觸重要,而非法防守
10/31 20:59, 109F

10/31 20:59, , 110F
這也是造成內線凋零的原因之一
10/31 20:59, 110F

10/31 21:00, , 111F
防守三秒跟半區域聯防,讓禁區人才往大前鋒移動
10/31 21:00, 111F

10/31 21:00, , 112F
的取消讓防守佔位的靈活性大增,也導致輪轉的進步
10/31 21:00, 112F

10/31 21:01, , 113F
本來防守進攻強的人就不可能靠單防守住,人盯人也好
10/31 21:01, 113F

10/31 21:01, , 114F
區域也好,聯盟本來就沒規定防守的模式,但是取消非法
10/31 21:01, 114F

10/31 21:03, , 115F
防守,讓協防能夠來得更快更聰明,而且既然規則對進攻
10/31 21:03, 115F

10/31 21:04, , 116F
者有利,以"不能大量肢體接觸"的尺度下,做到同等效率
10/31 21:04, 116F

10/31 21:04, , 117F
的防守,這不也代表防守戰術變得更聰明,更進步?
10/31 21:04, 117F

10/31 21:08, , 118F
另外我覺得肢體接觸這種東西對明星球員來講根本沒差
10/31 21:08, 118F

10/31 21:08, , 119F
因為明星球員在哨音上一直都是得利的
10/31 21:08, 119F

10/31 21:16, , 120F
非法防守剛取消那幾年聯盟得分一度壓低,07-08開始,平
10/31 21:16, 120F

10/31 21:17, , 121F
均得分破百的球隊突然暴增,將近一半的球隊
10/31 21:17, 121F

10/31 21:18, , 122F
有人記得那年改了什麼規則嗎?
10/31 21:18, 122F

10/31 21:20, , 123F
你知道為啥嗎,因為07-08開始3分球數量爆增
10/31 21:20, 123F

10/31 21:21, , 124F
在命中率同等的情況下3分得分效率更好這你應該明白
10/31 21:21, 124F

10/31 21:21, , 125F
而這也是05太陽帶來的小球革命的影響
10/31 21:21, 125F

10/31 21:38, , 126F
是啊,Antoine Walker早就說過囉~
10/31 21:38, 126F

10/31 21:47, , 127F
但也要準,他當時的塞爾提克是數一數二爛投的球隊...
10/31 21:47, 127F

10/31 21:47, , 128F
要看球隊進攻變化,看馬刺最準...馬刺這十幾年的球風
10/31 21:47, 128F

10/31 21:48, , 129F
一直都貼著聯盟潮流走,從低位變後場切入變擋拆+三分
10/31 21:48, 129F

10/31 21:49, , 130F
當然這是雞生蛋,也有可能他們制服組太優秀,選才組隊
10/31 21:49, 130F

10/31 21:49, , 131F
到戰術總是佼佼者,導致他隊在經營上也跟著效仿
10/31 21:49, 131F

10/31 22:14, , 132F
肢體接觸隊明星球員的表現"沒差"這我不能同意
10/31 22:14, 132F

10/31 22:15, , 133F
你可以說好的球員在不同型態的比賽會用不同的方式去
10/31 22:15, 133F

10/31 22:16, , 134F
協助球隊,但不能說因為有明星哨而根本沒差
10/31 22:16, 134F

10/31 22:18, , 135F
高頻率的肢體接觸會加強防守方的主動性,也會約制
10/31 22:18, 135F

10/31 22:18, , 136F
進攻方靠個人能力強打的意圖
10/31 22:18, 136F

10/31 22:22, , 137F
季後賽跟季賽強度提升的關鍵在哪?不也就是肢體碰撞
10/31 22:22, 137F

10/31 22:23, , 138F
的尺度提高嗎,同樣一個明星球員在高碰撞下數據就是
10/31 22:23, 138F

10/31 22:25, , 139F
會掉,個人火力的展現就是沒辦法那麼為所欲為
10/31 22:25, 139F

11/01 00:07, , 140F
科迷又在睜眼說瞎話了
11/01 00:07, 140F

11/01 10:26, , 141F
高肢體碰撞不是防守 "技術" 好,但是對壓制進攻非常
11/01 10:26, 141F

11/01 10:26, , 142F
有效
11/01 10:26, 142F

11/01 10:27, , 143F
說90 年代防守技術不如今天輪轉區防花樣多,我同意
11/01 10:27, 143F

11/01 10:28, , 144F
但說對進攻者的壓迫,尤其是單打者的壓迫,90s 應該
11/01 10:28, 144F

11/01 10:28, , 145F
遠大於今日
11/01 10:28, 145F

11/01 10:29, , 146F
Kobe 打球花樣很多,但是同意球技比老喬更好的人多嗎
11/01 10:29, 146F
文章代碼(AID): #1ISWb4CK (NBA)
文章代碼(AID): #1ISWb4CK (NBA)