[情報] Bonds, Clemens belong in the HOF

看板MLB作者時間13年前 (2013/01/08 22:08), 編輯推噓115(117269)
留言188則, 117人參與, 最新討論串1/1
http://tinyurl.com/bf556kl Barry Bonds was the first name I checked on my Hall of Fame ballot. Bonds是我第一個填在選票上的名字 Roger Clemens was the second name I checked. Clemens是第二個 Sammy Sosa was the third. Sosa是第三個 There was no hesitation. No moment of wavering. Didn't even blink. 完全沒有猶豫 Bonds, a seven-time MVP, might have been the greatest baseball player since Babe Ruth. Clemens, a seven-time Cy Young Award winner, was one of the most dominant pitchers of the last 50 years. Sosa, the only man to hit 60 or more homers in three seasons, was one of the most prolific home run hitters we've ever seen. 一個七度MVP 一個七屆賽揚獎 一個三度60轟 Oh, the steroids debate? 類固醇? None ever failed a drug test after Major League Baseball implemented testing in 2004. They were never suspended by MLB for steroids, human growth hormone, amphetamines or any other performance-enhancing drugs. 從2004藥檢以來全都過關了 沒被禁賽過 Clemens was exonerated on perjury charges for lying about steroid use in federal court. Bonds also beat perjury charges and was convicted only on an obstruction-of-justice charge that he's appealing. Clemens的官司勝了 Bonds的偽證也勝了 Do I still believe they cheated? Absolutely. 我相信他們作弊嗎? 當然 Do I have proof? No. 有證據嗎? 沒有 Do I have strong suspicions that Mike Piazza and Jeff Bagwell cheated after witnessing their colossal changes in body type and performance? Absolutely. Do I have any proof, beyond the whispers of teammates and close friends? Nope, sure don't. 我也強烈懷疑Piazza/Bagwell 但同樣也沒有證據 Piazza, the greatest hitting catcher in baseball history, is a Hall of Famer. Bagwell had a Hall of Fame career and eventually will be inducted. Rafael Palmeiro is the only player on this year's ballot who for certain tested positive for steroids. His positive came two months before he reached the magical 3,000-hit plateau, July 15, 2005. Major League Baseball was well aware of the test result. He was permitted to play while he secretly appealed, and MLB celebrated his historic 3,000-hit feat two weeks before his 10-day suspension. Palmeiro insists to this day he did nothing wrong, that the positive must have come from a tainted B-12 shot administered by teammate Miguel Tejada. Few seem to believe him. He has never received more than 12.6% of the Hall of Fame vote. I don't believe him either, but as one of only four players in baseball history to attain at least 3,000 hits and 500 homers, he gets my vote. Palmeiro被禁賽後表示他只是不小心打錯藥 我不相信 但三千安五百轟 夠了 Simply, I refuse to exclude players who used performance-enhancing drugs from the Baseball Hall of Fame. It doesn't matter if they were suspected, caught, indicted or admitted their use on national TV. I don't care if Bonds or Clemens came out tomorrow and divulged every detail of their steroid use. Or Piazza informed everyone how a 62nd-round draft pick could possibly hit .250 with six homers in his second year in the minors and three years later hit 35 homers for the Los Angeles Dodgers. They still get my vote. 簡單的說 我不在乎有沒有用藥 The Baseball Hall of Fame is not a cathedral. It is a museum of the history of the game. 名人堂是歷史博物館 不是教堂 And these players were the greatest of their era. It just so happens to be the steroid era. 而這些都是當代最好的球員 只是生在類固醇時代 Many were using the finest drugs available to enhance their own performance, and, in turn, they improved their team's chances of winning. Name a World Series champion from the last 25 years, and I'll name you at least one player strongly suspected of using steroids on that team. 用藥求勝的球員太多了 We don't take away their trophy. We don't put an asterisk by their name or forfeit their regular-season victories like the NCAA. The San Francisco Giants' World Series championship wasn't celebrated any less because Melky Cabrera played two-thirds of the season before flunking his drug test. 我們不會因為毒奶的貢獻就貶低巨人的冠軍 Look, if steroids were available 50 years ago, some of the game's greatest players -- Bob Gibson, for one --say they likely would have taken them. Their drug of choice was amphetamines, with trainers passing them out like candy. They were also illegal to have without a prescription, but of the 59 living Hall of Fame players, you can fit in a broom closet the ones who never consumed a greenie. 現在有類固醇 以前有安非他命 很多名人堂球員就用過 The truth is that baseball's general managers and their coaching staffs never had a problem with players using performance-enhancing drugs. (And given how easily Cabrera scored a two-year, $16 million contract from the Toronto Blue Jays this offseason, they still don't.) GM和教練也不在乎用藥 PED users were typically the most dedicated players on the team. They worked out more than most. They were the ones most concerned about nutrition. They got their sleep. 打藥的通常是最認真的球員 他們注重營養 作息規律 The only time baseball's executives really got angry was when they signed or traded for a player who was using performance-enhancing drugs, stopped taking them and saw his performance plummet. 只有當他們停止用藥表現下滑時 球團才會生氣 It's baseball. Pitchers scuff or spit on the ball until they get caught. Hitters cork their bats. Managers and coaches steal signs. GMs try to find loopholes in the draft and waiver wire. Prospects lie about their age. Cheating will always be a part of baseball. 作弊一直是棒球的一部份 "Guys have always been cheating, period,'' Gibson said three years ago on the Mike and Mike in the Morning show. "I'm just glad they didn't have steroids when I was playing. . . . I probably would have a tendency to say, 'Let's try this and see what it does to me.' " There are victims, of course, none bigger on this year's ballot than first baseman Fred McGriff. He had a .886 OPS (on-base-plus-slugging percentage) and, until the height of the steroid era in 2000, the 10th-highest OPS by anyone with at least 8,000 at-bats. Everyone ahead of him is in the Hall of Fame. He had six consecutive seasons of at least 30 homers, eight seasons of 100 or more RBI, nearly 900 more hits than Mark McGwire and more RBI and hits than Bagwell. McGriff says he never used PEDs. His body didn't change, and there weren't dramatic spikes in performance. Yet his numbers were dwarfed by the steroid era. He'll have my vote as long as he's on the ballot. The rest of my votes go to Craig Biggio, one of the greatest offensive second basemen in history; Jack Morris, the greatest pitcher of the '80s; shortstop Alan Trammell, the Barry Larkin of his generation; and closer Lee Smith, who wasn't Mariano Rivera, or even Trevor Hoffman, but a was model of consistency. 剩下的投票人選有: Fred McGriff/Craig Biggio/Jack Morris/Alan Trammell Lee Smith Biggio is the only player this year whose induction is probable. Morris will be awfully close. Piazza, and likely Bagwell, will make it within a couple of years. Bonds and Clemens will make it too, but their entry will be delayed for perhaps another five years. My feeling is that they shouldn't have to wait. We can't erase the steroid era from the record books, so let's make sure the greatest players from this era are honored at the Baseball Hall of Fame. 他們都不應該等待 我們不能把類固醇年代給抹去 所以就讓當代最好的球員進去吧 Maybe it'll take a current Hall of Famer to admit he used performance-enhancing drugs. Maybe it'll take greater acceptance that steroids were used more pervasively than anyone could have envisioned. Maybe then, and only then, will enough voters believe that, although these players might be flawed, they deserve to be in Cooperstown. Maybe then enough voters will come to terms with the era for these stained candidates to gain the ultimate honor. -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 140.112.25.133

01/08 22:11, , 1F
01/08 22:11, 1F

01/08 22:12, , 2F
我們稱之為~~~~~~戰神
01/08 22:12, 2F

01/08 22:12, , 3F
這篇太霸氣了
01/08 22:12, 3F

01/08 22:12, , 4F
最後一句...某部分中肯
01/08 22:12, 4F

01/08 22:12, , 5F
的確沒啥差 只是跟他們同一時代沒吃藥的球員很衰
01/08 22:12, 5F

01/08 22:14, , 6F
不是每個用藥的都可以這麼強
01/08 22:14, 6F

01/08 22:16, , 7F
天啊! 強硬不失道理,近乎無法辯駁,好讚的文章。
01/08 22:16, 7F

01/08 22:16, , 8F
我同意
01/08 22:16, 8F

01/08 22:16, , 9F
打藥的通常是最認真的球員 他們注重營養 作息規律
01/08 22:16, 9F

01/08 22:18, , 10F
我們不會因為毒奶的貢獻就貶低巨人的冠軍XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
01/08 22:18, 10F

01/08 22:18, , 11F
不管你想不想面對 類固醇年代就擺在那裡
01/08 22:18, 11F

01/08 22:18, , 12F
但我不同意用藥合法化
01/08 22:18, 12F

01/08 22:19, , 13F
沒有人同意用藥合法化阿 問題是那時候根本沒有不合法
01/08 22:19, 13F

01/08 22:20, , 14F
我開始相信你了XDDDD
01/08 22:20, 14F

01/08 22:20, , 15F
反觀中職
01/08 22:20, 15F

01/08 22:21, , 16F
Selig s__ks.
01/08 22:21, 16F

01/08 22:22, , 17F
霸氣外洩~~
01/08 22:22, 17F

01/08 22:23, , 18F
戰!!!
01/08 22:23, 18F

01/08 22:23, , 19F
只可惜多了這一票可能還很不夠多
01/08 22:23, 19F

01/08 22:24, , 20F
現在有類固醇 以前有小綠
01/08 22:24, 20F

01/08 22:24, , 21F
可以看見Lou Whitaker和Alan Trammell一起進去的一天嗎
01/08 22:24, 21F

01/08 22:24, , 22F
說的真好
01/08 22:24, 22F

01/08 22:26, , 23F
要開戰了
01/08 22:26, 23F

01/08 22:28, , 24F
贊成
01/08 22:28, 24F

01/08 22:28, , 25F
那時候沒有合不合法的問題 他們也沒錯
01/08 22:28, 25F

01/08 22:28, , 26F
本來就沒有不合法
01/08 22:28, 26F

01/08 22:29, , 27F
名人堂是歷史博物館 不是教堂 !!!
01/08 22:29, 27F

01/08 22:29, , 28F
根本沒啥好戰~
01/08 22:29, 28F

01/08 22:30, , 29F
Manny認真?
01/08 22:30, 29F
http://www.appledaily.com.tw/appledaily/article/sports/20100316/32364224/ 不逛夜店 每天做重量 悍創透露,拉米瑞茲抵台前,就曾問過他的經紀人,是否要帶他去夜店,不過遭到婉拒, 拉米瑞茲不是夜店咖,工作人員只帶他去中式餐館吃飯,拉米最愛的是海鮮類,而他作息 很正常,不愛亂晃,唯一不變的是,每天一定固定做重量訓練90分鐘,讓工作人員很佩服 :「巨星不是這麼容易誕生的。」

01/08 22:31, , 30F
馬怪.火箭人.棒子爺的成績及貢獻進不了名人堂 那還要誰進?
01/08 22:31, 30F

01/08 22:31, , 31F
01/08 22:31, 31F

01/08 22:32, , 32F
"typically" 原PO都翻了還看不懂嗎
01/08 22:32, 32F

01/08 22:32, , 33F
01/08 22:32, 33F

01/08 22:34, , 34F
整篇沒有問題 但那段是一種合理化的說詞吧
01/08 22:34, 34F
※ 編輯: abc12812 來自: 140.112.25.133 (01/08 22:35)

01/08 22:35, , 35F
go go Bonds
01/08 22:35, 35F
※ 編輯: abc12812 來自: 140.112.25.133 (01/08 22:37)

01/08 22:36, , 36F
Lou Whitaker要等vc翻案..然後Trammell又沒衝線吧
01/08 22:36, 36F
還有 113 則推文
01/09 15:11, , 150F
Bonds也是啊,07年破完紀錄後就找不到工作了
01/09 15:11, 150F

01/09 15:12, , 151F
這實在有點很難不去懷疑有默契封殺這回事
01/09 15:12, 151F

01/09 15:56, , 152F
講得真是太好了 我懷義 但我沒有證據
01/09 15:56, 152F

01/09 16:25, , 153F
爽推
01/09 16:25, 153F

01/09 17:58, , 154F
Selig吃屎
01/09 17:58, 154F

01/09 18:08, , 155F
再幾個小時就知道了....
01/09 18:08, 155F

01/09 18:14, , 156F
Melky那段翻的有點怪吧
01/09 18:14, 156F

01/09 18:15, , 157F
巨人的冠軍不會因為牛奶的作弊行為而被貶損
01/09 18:15, 157F

01/09 18:16, , 158F
這段比較像一碼歸一碼的額外註釋而已.沒其他意義阿
01/09 18:16, 158F

01/09 19:56, , 159F
只能說我手上有票就不投他們 但其他人怎麼想 我管不著.....
01/09 19:56, 159F

01/09 19:58, , 160F
agree
01/09 19:58, 160F

01/09 22:22, , 161F
還幫他找理由勒
01/09 22:22, 161F

01/09 22:46, , 162F
Selig sucks拉 !!!
01/09 22:46, 162F

01/09 22:59, , 163F
前面說得很有道理啊 但為何最後要把禁藥合理化?
01/09 22:59, 163F

01/09 22:59, , 164F
這篇文章的敗筆就在最後了
01/09 22:59, 164F

01/09 23:08, , 165F
哪裡把禁藥合理化了?? 他說類固醇是那個時代的事實, 現在
01/09 23:08, 165F

01/09 23:08, , 166F
是禁藥 以前可不是
01/09 23:08, 166F

01/09 23:09, , 167F
今年可能沒人會進 HOF應該砍掉重煉
01/09 23:09, 167F

01/09 23:33, , 168F
有太多球員就算給他吃藥也沒辦法60轟..
01/09 23:33, 168F

01/09 23:43, , 169F
01/09 23:43, 169F

01/09 23:50, , 170F
我覺得有些道理 那時候確實並沒有禁藥不禁藥問題
01/09 23:50, 170F

01/10 10:50, , 171F
威力十足的LUB
01/10 10:50, 171F

01/10 13:48, , 172F
贊成,他們是我們從小看到大的
01/10 13:48, 172F

01/10 15:22, , 173F
請問可轉棒球版嗎?
01/10 15:22, 173F
marcohpsh:轉錄至看板 Baseball 01/10 15:31

01/10 16:04, , 174F
Big Mac 用的那種藥 是幫助他可以做強度更高的重訓啊
01/10 16:04, 174F

01/10 17:04, , 175F
霸氣阿可惜其他評審
01/10 17:04, 175F

01/11 04:02, , 176F
先搞清楚他們用的藥再來說他們認真不認真好嗎 ?
01/11 04:02, 176F

01/11 04:02, , 177F
他們用的藥,如果不更努力重訓,甚至要花兩到三倍的時間的話
01/11 04:02, 177F

01/11 04:03, , 178F
通通都沒用的,拜託一下.在那個時代那不是禁藥!
01/11 04:03, 178F

01/11 04:04, , 179F
你會因為2000年把鴉片定為毒品然後把1800年用鴉片的人關?
01/11 04:04, 179F

01/11 20:27, , 180F
統測作弊榜首也應該無罪 因為人家作弊也不能這麼高
01/11 20:27, 180F

01/11 23:24, , 181F
樓上說的就好像現在不能用鯊魚裝 要去把之前奧運靠鯊魚裝
01/11 23:24, 181F

01/11 23:24, , 182F
裝拿一堆金牌的通通取消一樣
01/11 23:24, 182F

01/11 23:25, , 183F
因為用鯊魚裝作弊 所以之前有用的通通都要抓
01/11 23:25, 183F

01/11 23:29, , 184F
打完才發現好像跟樓上沒關係...
01/11 23:29, 184F

01/11 23:30, , 185F
同樣邏輯 那些選手一定都知道穿鯊魚裝可以提升成績所以還
01/11 23:30, 185F

01/11 23:31, , 186F
要穿 靠鯊魚裝衝高世界紀錄害沒穿的人很難破
01/11 23:31, 186F

01/12 14:21, , 187F
這就是霸氣阿...XD
01/12 14:21, 187F

11/02 08:12, , 188F
那時候沒有合不合法的問 https://noxiv.com
11/02 08:12, 188F
文章代碼(AID): #1Gx2XlkA (MLB)