Re: [閒聊] LFC戰術討論

看板Liverpool作者magicalion (Loneliness)時間12年前 (2012/07/17 09:48)推噓23(23推 0噓 15→)

留言38則, 24人參與討論串2/6 (看更多)

首先我看到這篇討論Rodgers戰術文章，內容配合網頁圖型很清楚易懂。 Brendan Rodgers’ Tactical Approach: How Liverpool adapt to Tiki-Taka? http://goo.gl/5SVq7 ========================================================== 摘錄部分內容： Brendan Rodgers is a man who has an appreciation of footballing perception and culture, regardless of its roots, a man who strives for perfection in the evolution of the game. The strategies of ‘Tiki-Taka’ and ‘totaal-voetbal’ form the basis of Brendan Rodgers’ modus operandi. Rodgers的足球哲學主要來自於"tiki-taka"以及"totaal-voetbal"。 (註：前者多半來自於Barcelona，後者則是荷蘭的全攻全守足球，另外文章討論AVB和Rodgers戰術上的差異，也有稍微提到這兩者的差異) “I like to control games. I like to be responsible for our own destiny. If you are better than your opponent with the ball you have a 79 per cent chance of winning the game… for me it is quite logical. It doesn’t matter how big or small you are, if you don’t have the ball you can’t score.” (Rodgers 2012) Rodgers認為控制比賽是他的主要足球哲學，經過統計，79%的比賽是由控球率高的那方獲勝。 Maintaining possession, working the ball through various channels and quality of goal scoring opportunities (rather than quantity) are apropos of the Tiki-Taka school of football. To achieve the success found implementing Tiki-Taka football, not only are a particular set of players required but a template to enable the ever-flowing movement advocated by Spain, Barça and Swansea: Tiki-Taka足球強調維持高控球率，並且注重尋找"良好的"攻門得分機會而非濫射(重質不重量)。為了達到這樣的戰術要求，而非仰賴特定球員的個人發揮，球隊需要有模板的系統性戰術來確保場上球的流動。西班牙國家隊、Barcelona和Swansea都是這類風格足球的擁護者。 (註：在其他類似的文章中，我有看到Rodgers強調是建立系統後，找適合的球員Fit in 而非替隊中現有球員設計戰術，大方向是這樣。這也是當初我覺得AVB被弄下台很替他感到可惜的地方，因為他並沒有可以主導轉會的權力，以至於無法依照他的理念進行建隊(買人賣人)，希望我們別犯一樣的錯誤) “My template for everything is organisation. With the ball you have to know the movement patterns, the rotation, the fluidity and positioning of the team. Then there’s our defensive organisation…so if it is not going well we have a default mechanism which makes us hard to beat and we can pass our way into the game again. Rest with the ball. Then we’ll build again.” (Rodgers 2012) Rodgers強調有系統性的組織球場上的比賽進行是一切的基本。這裡講到很重要的一點：Rest with the ball. 意思應該是說當有球在手時，才是球員休息、重新組織然後發起另一波攻勢的時候。 (註：反過來說，另外文章有寫到，最累的時候應該是丟了球權，要發起壓迫把球搶回來時) For Liverpool, a new set of fundamentals will need to be put into place; a move away from the over-reliance on direct football that maximizes the quantity of goal scoring opportunities and not quality - a degree of trust will need to be installed in the individual’s know-how and when to shoot or make the decision that the opportunity is only a half chance and not a sure thing. The approach works on the principles that ‘the whole is greater that then sum of its parts’ 對LFC來說，過去太過強調直來直往的足球(direct football)，雖然可以最大化攻門的次數(因為長傳吊中，講求高效把球送往球門方向)，但其攻門次數轉化成實際得分的效率卻很差。攻門時機太過仰賴球員個人的技巧與判斷，但以結果來看成功率並不高。總之Rodgers認為足球應該講求整體團隊戰術進行而非僅仰賴球員個人天分。 (註：again，整體戰術大於球員) Brendan Rodgers, in early 2012, sketched out his strategy and explained his approach to the game for journalist Duncan White. First, he divided the pitch into eight zones and then plotted his formation. The division of zones is suggestive that each player when in possession should play a particular role, including the goal keeper and two centre backs: 2012年初，Rodgers說明了他的戰術安排。他把球場從己方球門到對方球門分成8個區域，利用不同的區域來劃分不同球員扮演的角色。 (圖型請參考前面網站) “When we have the football everybody’s a player. The difference with us is that when we have the ball we play with 11 men, other teams play with 10 and a goalkeeper.” (Rodgers 2012) Rodgers認為當球隊擁有球權時，守門員也扮演很重要的角色。而非僅是10名球員進攻+1守門員。 The formation moves away from the given 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-5-1 etc way of thinking and towards a concept of zones within the playing field. 這套系統並不強調傳統講解戰術時如4-4-2, 4-3-3或是4-5-1等類似的陣型，主要利用8個不同區域以及球員在這些區域進攻時所應發揮的功能。 Zone 1 – ‘the sweeper goalkeeper’ – This specialised zone is expected to take charge of a much larger zone in Tiki-Taka football compared to the more direct approach. The emphasis is on the goalkeeper to play with the ball at his feet and play far more short threaded passes than usual. Characteristics in this role include: good stature, efficiency with balls in the air, bravery, agility and willingness to play on the deck without fear – the keeper is expected to act as a pressure relief for under pressure team mates. Given that Liverpool’s Reina received his education at Barcelona’s La Masia it will come as a natural for Reina to play the required role in zone 1. Zone 1是己方小禁區前沿到大禁區範圍。做為同樣是進攻球員11人之一的守門員，應該要負責在此導球，並多進行短傳。由於進攻時該區域通常僅由守門員負責，所以要求守門員應該要有良好的身材、能控球、夠勇敢跟瀉捷，不懼怕在該區域進行控球。來自拉瑪西亞的Reina應該很容易習慣扮演該腳色。 Zone 2 - the ‘líbero’ – The players in zone 2 are (like the goalkeeper) expected to play a much larger role in ‘keep-ball’. They are too expected to act as pressure relief to a compact midfield as a way-out option. The two centre backs are expected to compliment one another: one technically brilliant and one with a powerful physical presence (see: Puyol-Pique). The more technical of the two is to act as a playmaker for changing the pace of the game – Ashley Williams made more long ball attempts than any other outfield player during 2011/12, mostly fast yet grounded balls played forward to feet. As a ‘líbero’ you have the whole picture in front of you – you are in a position to say pim let’s go this way, pim let’s go that way. Zone 2 是己方大禁區往前到大約1/3到1/4球場中間的位置(請看原圖)。在這個區域的球員應該要決定保持球權並且決定出球的方向。兩個中後衛在這個區域應該要相互配合，通常一個在技術上具有優勢；另一個則是在身體對抗上有優勢。 (例如Puyol-Pique組合) Swansea的中衛Ashley Williams是該隊在2011/12球季長傳最多的球員，但大多數的往前場的傳球還是以地面為主。由於在該區域的球員具有往前看全場所有球員位置的視野，所以他該決定往哪個方向傳球並向前發起進攻。 (註：這個區域我覺得我們的Agger-Skartel組合也很適合， Agger喜歡持球，Skrtel具有身體優勢。另外我沒記錯的話，我記得Agger說過喜歡打地面足球。請參考本版6754篇) Zone 3 – the ‘volante de salida’ – This player must be particularly good at playing his way out of trouble and yet still excellent at winning the ball back. Typical characteristics are the ability to read the game, act as an outlet for under-pressure team mates consistently and continually pass the ball within pressure. “I get the ball, I pass, I get the ball, I pass, I get the ball, I pass.” (Xavier Hernandez 2011) Xavi’s hypnotic approach to the game summarises the mindset for the player in this particular zone and like Leon Britton should boast a remarkably high pass completion rate – a 93.3% pass rate was widely acknowledged in January 2012. Zone 3 是從Zone 2邊緣往前到中圈弧頂(靠己方處)。在這個區域的球員強調能把球權搶回來的能力。需要能夠解讀比賽的球員，同時要有在壓力下處理球權並傳出的技術。這裡引述了Xavi的名言"搶球、傳球，搶球、傳球...repeat.." Xavi著名的催眠術表演總結了在這個區域球員正常發揮功能的極致。 2011/12賽季Swansea的Leon Britton，其於2012/1高達93.3%的傳球成功率，也做了很好的示範。 (註：這裡我有點不是很懂，因為Barcelona比較常出現在這個區域的應該是Busquets，不知道為什麼原文會一直講到Xavi，還是說因為Xavi也常會跑到這個區域!? 如果有人可以幫我解釋一下的話，那就太感激了。這個區域我覺得我們問題也不大，因為我們有世界級的Defensive Midfielder / Deep Lying Midfielder。有空再找統計上賽季Lucas的表現，大家就知道他有多威能了。) Zone 4 – the wing backs – the players in this zone will need to be prepared to work particularly hard up and down the wing; both defensively and in more advanced positions. It is important to note that crosses will now be made from the by-line rather than from deep – within zone G (8). Liverpool currently boasts a number of players who can fulfil this role – Johnson, Kelly, Enrique. Zone 4 大約是從己方中圈弧頂到球場中線。在這個區域的球員強調在邊翼的往前進攻和往後防守。這裡需要特別注意的是，傳中球將由過去從後場往前傳，改為僅在Zone 8(相對於Zone 1的區域，對方大禁區線到對方球門)從邊線起腳往中傳。目前LFC能夠滿足這個位置要求的球員：Johnson, Kelly和Enrique。 (註：這邊說到一個重點，以後看到傳中球應該會常發生在對方禁區的Zone G(8)，而非後場往前場大腳，或過中線後長傳到禁區。也因為這樣，我想未來LFC找AML/R或是FL/R應該不會太強調長傳禁區的能力，所以我想Downing和Adam在適應這個體系，相比其他人應該會比較吃力。) Zone 5 – the box to box creative midfielders – flair, the ability to change the pace of the game within a second, the decision of when to do so and an all round technical ability are required to fulfil the roles in zone 5. Zone 5 players are expected to continually find space amongst the ‘traffic’ and complete the triangles in possession. The players should not constantly look to create the spectacular but are expected to simply knit the possession and keep the ball more often than not. Steven Gerrard is one player who may have to adapt to fit within this role and play keep ball rather than looking to create often – however will no doubt still act as a catalyst to change the game. Zone 5 相對於Zone 4的位置，從球場中線到對方球場中圈弧頂。該區域球員需要能夠決定何時並且在短時間內改變球賽進行的速度，最好是全能全才球員。此區域球員需要不停地尋找場上的空間，並且維持三角傳球空間。球員被要求確保球權在手，而非不斷地尋找電光火石的絕佳機會。 Gerrard是目前可能符合該角色的球員，只是要稍微調整改變過去總是在尋求進攻機會，改為確保球權總是在己方。 Zone 6 – the inside forwards – Messi, Alexis Sanchez, Sinclair, Dyer et al. all represent the highly creative, technically gifted and unpredictable player expected to fulfil the requirements of this zone. Luis Suarez is one player who could walk into the Barcelona model and will no doubt provide Liverpool with the answers in this zone. Zone 6 相對於Zone 3的位置，從對方中圈弧頂到約2/3-3/4球場中間的位置。 Barcelona的Messi, Sanchez以及Swansea的Sinclair, Dyer等。需要具有創造力，有技巧以及難以預測的進攻模式。 Suarez滿足該區域球員的要求，甚至可以融入Barcelona的模式。 (註：這裡應該是AMR/L或FL/R的位置，但均強調球員需具備內切進攻球門的能力，同時因為前面提到戰術要求盡量在對方大禁區線後才進行傳中，所以以往用右腳球員打右路，左腳打左路的情形，很可能會有所調整， Suarez除了打FC中鋒，我覺得下賽季有可能打左邊的AML或是FL的位置，讓給他很大一片空間牽制跟突破，同時可以內切製造機會和攻門。) Zone 7 - the linking target man – This player is expected to be technically gifted when assessing his first touch, link up play and off ball movement. Carroll may well represent a target man, whether he adapts to act as a target man in this model is a question yet to be asked of him. While Carroll possesses world-class aerial ability, questions may be asked of his ability on the deck as well as his off ball movement. However, towards the end of the 2011/2012 season Carroll showed glimpses of being an extremely hardworking forward and may well find much success in this role. Anyone lucky enough to watch Fabio Borini will know that he was a huge loss to Swansea this past year, despite the success of Danny Graham. Zone 7 相對於Zone 2的位置，從球場2/3-4/3球場中間到對方大禁區線。這個區域的球員對於第一腳觸球、連結其他球員以及無球跑動方面要有出色的能力。 Carrol可能是選項之一，雖然還存有相當多的疑問。他有頂尖的空中作戰能力，主要的存疑來自於其腳下功夫以及無球跑動能力。然而在2011/2012本賽季的末段，他展現了強大的企圖心以及努力，希望尋求在這個區域展現其身價。任何人能看到Fabio Borini早前租借到Swansea的表現應該要感到幸運！雖然繼任的前鋒Danny Graham表現不錯，但Borini的離開是Swansea的重大損失。 (註：看到這我的嘴角忍不住微微揚起，話說這篇文章發表的時間是2012/5/31，那時還沒簽到Borini，應該說我們連主帥都還在找。但是文章中已經說明Borini做為前場的Target Man或是Poacher，有多適合打Rodgers體系的Tiki-Taka足球。一樣有文章討論Borini是否適應Rodgers體系的討論，稍後介紹。) Zone G (8) – the goal scoring opportunity and assist zone – this zone is vastly important zone to understand. The quality of chances cannot be stressed enough. Liverpool has, over the past five years, been noted for creating chance after chance without scoring. The players who break into this zone should be extremely good at making the decision as to whether a goal scoring opportunity is available or to turn back and play the ball back into the organism of Tiki-Taka. Barcelona however, highlighted the danger in over relying on this concept as their play became slower and more predictable as the game went on against Chelsea in the Champions League 2011/12. For situations like this, just maybe Steven Gerrard will recreate the brilliance he showed against Olympiakos (2004) and West Ham (2006). However, a balance between the Tiki-Taka patience and Gerrard’s direct play will be reworked under Rodgers without a doubt. As a general rule, one goal should be scored to every nine shots. Zone G(8) 對方大禁區線到對方球門區域。 Rodgers再次強調攻門品質的重要性。過去5年，LFC創造了許多攻門次數但進球率卻低得可憐。攻入這個區域的球員需要良好的判斷能力，可以判斷這次進攻是否是好的攻門機會；或是決定回傳重新組織進攻。 Barcelona過分依賴這樣的禁區進攻方式也被指出有其弱點，因為此時球的運轉會變慢且容易被預測。 2011/12賽季的歐冠就是因為這樣而被Chelsea抓住機會擊敗。為了應付這樣的情形，或許我們需要Gerrard再次演繹2004年對Olympiakos，以及2006年對West Ham比賽中的表現。當然我們期待在Rodgers的訓練下，可以在Tiki-taka這種需要耐心和Gerrard直接純粹足球方式的中間找到平衡。平均來說，每9次攻門應該要獲取1個進球。 Whether or not Rodgers’ methodology is a success at Liverpool is the question. However, the success may come down to the amount of control Rodgers is offered over the club structure: from the academy to the first team. Liverpool have kept no secrets in their approach to managers and directors this summer but all roads point to one single conceptual view of football – that of Barcelona and La Masia; the hope of becoming a successful club in perpetuity. 未來Rodgers的戰術要求能否在LFC獲得成功仍然是未知數。成功與否的關鍵可能取決於Rodgers從青訓到first team能夠控制和管理的權力大小有關。 (註：還好最後聽說Rodgers說服了亨利，給了他所有的權限，反之，若三年後失敗也沒甚麼理由了。) LFC近期在決定是否採用主帥統籌所有權力或是總教練和足球總監分治的方式，不論考慮哪種方法，其主要目的都在於打造另一個Barcelona和La Masia。一種長久成功的足球發展模式和俱樂部。 The variable of ‘time’ presents Liverpool with the biggest challenge. Tiki-Taka football simply does not transpire from one single season of transitional change – just ask A.S. Roma and Luis Enrique of 2011/12. Swansea were already a technically gifted side and good in possession long before Brendan Rodgers, both P.Sousa and R.Martinez provided the club with the foundations. The core of the Swansea side has been with the club for many years; Tiki-Taka has become the club’s tradition. 最大的挑戰在於要花多久時間才能達到這個目標？ Tiki-Taka足球並非可以在一個球季即一蹴即成。 2011/12的A.S. Roma球會和Luis Enrigue(教練)就是最近的例子。 Swansea在Rodgers接手前已有一批具有控球技巧的球員，前任P.Sousa以及R.Martinez都是類似強調控制足球概念並奠定球會的基礎。這樣的技術風格深植球隊許多年，Tiki-Tak已變成球會的傳統。 However, Liverpool needs change – the club needs to move away from the over reliance on two or three individuals and a move away from the many, many wasted chances over the years. Progress and longevity are the goals of Liverpool & Brendan Rodgers and it is this collaboration of ideologies that may well lead Brendan Rodgers and Liverpool back to the glory years of yesteryear, a glimpse of futuristic realistic success. 然而LFC需要改變，過去幾年LFC已太過依賴部分特定球員，同時過於浪費得分的良機。獲得長遠的發展進程以及成功是LFC以及Rodgers的目標。 Liverpool needs to restructure from the ground up and no man is better suited to become Liverpool’s very own Pep Guardiola than Brendan Rodgers. Liverpool fans should expect the unexpected. But then again, what’s new here? Liverpool were 3 nil down at the Atatürk Stadium when half time came in 2005. LFC需要從地基打起，除了LFC非常渴望的Pep Guardiola之外，沒有人可以比Rodgers做得更好！ LFC球迷們準備好這趟重建之旅吧！旅途中或有許多意想不到的事！但是，嘿！又能怎樣呢？當年2005的歐冠決賽，中場休息時我們還0:3落後呢！最後的結局，你和我再清楚不過了。 Please see supporting articles: 1. La Masia - http://goo.gl/3kPAq 2. How to play like Barcelona or Swansea - http://goo.gl/HD9rq (這是文章末附上的延伸閱讀，強烈推薦想要了解Tiki-Taka足球的人可以看，知道Barcelona和Swansea的戰術概念，因為下個賽季你就會在LFC上看到啦！) ======================================================================= 首先，如果摘譯有錯，麻煩跟我說，謝謝！本來只是想看完之後的心得寫寫，不會花太多時間，後來變成翻譯了，搞了幾個小時..... 沒辦法，我覺得這是我看過一系列介紹新主帥戰術理念最好的幾篇文章之一，未來有空的話，會陸續跟大家介紹。看完之後，熱血沸騰，期待已久的Tiki-Taka足球終於要在我最喜愛的球會上展現，雖然不知道會不會成功，但的確會讓我想知道下賽季的LFC會變成怎麼樣。於是................... 我拿出了ipad的FM，實驗了一下..... 先說我知道可能沒太大的意義，畢竟遊戲和現實中還是差很多。首先我們的後防線基本上是可以滿足Rodger的戰術需要的，而且我們防線在萎靡中場的摧殘下，仍然是英超居前列的水準。位置只有1種，角色會隨可上場的人有些更改，因為只有Agger可以打Ball Playing Centre Back的角色。 Left Back (Wing Back) - Enrique, sub:Aurelio > Robinson Centre Back (Ball Playing Back) - Agger Centre Back (Centre Back) - Skrtel, sub:Kelly > Coates Right Back (Wing Back) - Johnson, sub:Kelly > Flannagan 中場我們有世界級的盧神，但其他也都還不錯。位置看對手強弱會稍調調整，細節就不詳列了。但不脫MC*3 / DMC*1+MC*2 / MC*2+AMC*1 Defensive/Deep Lying Midfielder - Lucas, sub:Gerrard, Henderson Centre Midfielder/Box to Box Midfielder - Gerrard, sub:Henderson Adv. Playmaker - Cole, sub:Henderson, Aqualani, Maxi, Gerrard 前場就有點神奇，我找不到Borini可以買，於是我把Carrol/Downing賣了，改買Dempsey打中鋒的位置。位置配置有兩種 FC*3 Foward Centre *1 (Poacher) - Dempsey, sub: Kuyt Foward Centre *2 (Comp. Forward) - Suarez, Bellamy, Kuyt 和 AML*1+FC*1+AMR*1 Attacking Midfielder Left (Inside Forward) - Suarez, sub:Maxi, Bellamy Foward Centre (Poacher) - Dempsey, sub:Kuyt Attacking Midfielder Right (Inside Forward) - Bellamy, sub:Kuyt, Suarez 整體戰術設定為Balance, Short-pass以及Pressing (On)，還有Tackle(Commitment)。就這樣我賣了Carrol, Downing和Adam，多了個Dempsey，和忘了有沒有買到Joe Allen。打完2011/12球季後，剛好英超第4取得歐冠資格。 Dempsey超鬼神，進了很多球，然後Suarez製造了很多助攻以及某種程度的進球，這也反映出有另外一篇文章說明Suarez其實是很好的機會創造者，但非很會保握進球機會的Finisher。另外有一篇文章還統計了2011/12賽季Suarez每場英超聯賽所創造出來機會的數量，其中僅有5場還是6場沒有創造出任何機會。而這5-6場當中僅有1隻英超球隊非常了解Suarez的特點，並且在主客場2次防守都有效地限制了Suarez的發揮，讓他無法創造出任何的進球機會。那隻球隊就是我們現在的主帥Rodgers曾經帶領的Swansea！期待他早就已經開始偷偷撰寫Suarez使用手冊，並且完整的帶到LFC！讓LFC重返歐冠！YNWA！ -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 93.97.48.98

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minikai

07/17 10:49, , 1^F

07/17 10:49, 1^F

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wWindaZz

07/17 10:52, , 2^F

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musicken

07/17 10:54, , 3^F

07/17 10:54, 3^F