Re: [心得] 比賽心得

看板Hearthstone作者 (小黃)時間8年前 (2015/09/02 11:19), 8年前編輯推噓65(66推 1噓 56→)
留言123則, 60人參與, 最新討論串2/3 (看更多)
第一次翻，麻煩鞭小力一點。有些卡牌不知道大家是不是這樣講。 只是希望這篇文章也有機會被國外看見，所以來翻翻看。 ※ 引述《tomchen60229 (小威)》之銘言： : 剛回到台灣 在國外不太可能用手機發文 : 比賽完看到很多推文 巴哈的文章 : 覺得挺難過的 所以決定打這篇文章 : 如果有餘力的版友可以順便幫我轉巴哈嗎? I just got back. I saw many forums in Taiwan talking about my luck in the tournament. That makes me sad, so I've decided to write this. Feel free to repost this on other forums. : 這次比賽的運氣算是相當不錯 : 但最後一天跟trump kolento打的時候 互相的運氣比拚其實都相當接近55波 : 下面講解一些比較有印象的事情 : (VOD我只看我覺得我出的有爭議的地方 所以對手的失誤我只提幾個) Truely, my luck in this tournament has been decent. However, from my estimation, trump and kolento has about the same luck as I have when we were competing. These are some facts that I kept in mind: (I didn't watch all the VODs. I will only list some of my opponents' errors.) : 第一天K神真的賽到歪頭 : 每次我起手運氣比較好的時候 : 就一定重賽(4場)(斷線) : 重賽到最後K神起手超好/我起手不好 : 這場就會結束了 : 我對運氣好壞是不會有太多感情的 因為爐石就這樣啊 : 但重賽害我輸我就會覺得超級無敵霹靂不爽 : 所以打K神打到最後 我臉超臭 : 但接下來的比賽就重新出發 沒斷線我都沒差 Kolento (as a worshiping tone in Chinese) has damn good luck on the first day. Everytime I got better luck, the internet disconnected and we had to rematch. Those matchs that did play to the end, ironically all favors Kolento. I don't get affected much by luck, because I am a professional and that's how I see this game. Yet, I do get affected by internet disconnection. That's why I was really annoyed by then. I told myself not to be disturbed by internet disconnection. It's good that the internet problem didn't occur during the rest of the tournament. : 跟trump打其實賽前不太害怕 : 因為光就牌組而言我算是相當克制他帶的牌組 I feel confident competing against trump, since my decks counter his a lot. I was defeated by Cho in the first game. I only needed a normal 2 cost minions to trade against a fast palladin. Not to mention what a disastrous it was to see coin + divine-favor. : 第一場被阿周害死 沒阿周不一定會贏 : 但阿周絕對是快攻比較希望看到的牌 : 打快攻聖我只需要血多的2費生物就可以交換很多東西 : 更不用說後來的硬幣神恩術有多慘了 : 第二場其實也還好 : 四費我知道他要鬥毆了 因為正常戰士不會吝嗇去砍鏡像 : 但還是得下雪人 不下的話很可能他就直接出其他生物 : 鬥毆最後留鏡像-50% : 接下來好幾回合沒有生物進來 失去超級多的節奏 : 好不容易傳到紅龍(關於傳送門我最後會在特別留一段來解說) : 紅龍算是運氣非常不錯了 : 下一個傳送門傳漁人-廢物 : 最後一回合密法飛彈贏的機率-2/3*2/3*2/3=70%+ (飛彈一下都打不到臉或嘲諷) : 其實我覺得加上我卡牌卡的要死 這場的運氣也就普普通通啊 The second game is ok. At turn 4, I know he's about to Brawl, otherwise he'll just hammers a mirror-image. Yet, I still had to put the Yeti on board. After the brawl, a mirror-image was left. -50% luck. Later I didn't get minion from the draws, that dragged my tempo. It was a compensate that I portalled Alexstrasza. (There will be a clearer comment about unstable-portal later in the pargraph.) The second portal gave me a Murloc--trashy. The last turn my win rate was more than 70%. ( 1 - 2/3 * 2/3 * 2/3 ) Overall, my luck in the game is average. : 第三場 : 前面沒生物出/沒奧多爾有點衰 : 後面跳末日賽到歪頭啊啊啊啊 : 不過如果我被對面場面壓力嚇到 提早打出伐木機 而不是打臉 : 這場結果還有點難說 : 但這場真的賽賽賽賽賽賽賽賽賽 The third game In the beginning I felt a bit awkward without minions in my hand. (譯按；奧多爾沒翻出來，那邊我比賽沒看，不知道發生什麼事。) However, there was the Doomsayer! If I chose to kill the Piloted-Shredder instead of going face, it would be totally another game. (I still think going face is better) However, overall to say, I got LUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKY. : 第四場 : 起手換掉殭屍我覺得是很好的換牌 : 中間雙王牌死不來讓我有點抖 : 其實現在的龍術逼出對面的鬥毆之後 : 王牌射掉一隻大隻的生物兼舖其他生物就會贏了 : 不太需要留藍龍收尾 The forth game. I feel good about my trading with Zombie-Chow. In the midgame I didn't draw one of my two Big-Game-Hunters. I don't really need Malygos in the end. By having one Big-Game-Hunter and other minions on board was good enough to win. : 第五場 : 算是運氣很好 : 對面很卡我蠻順的 : 但其實就算正常打我也還是有自信贏就是了 : 而且Trump有打錯(失誤篇等等XD) The fifth game. Lucky. I got a great tempo, although I think I don't need that much luck to win this game. By the way, Trump made an error. (will specify late) : 對上K神 : 第一場 : K神賽到歪頭 我起手全換摸不到食屍鬼/小斧/護甲/猛擊 : K神起手直接飛刀手+兩1費 當然也奠基在K神打對直接出飛刀手 : T7打奴隸是非常劣勢的對戰 一定是要賭對方沒有解 看能不能靠鋪生物直接打爆奴隸 : 而且戰士很多處理一血生物的方法 所以後手一定是出飛刀手 : 中間科學家沒拉爆炸拉毒蛇-50% : 飛刀毒蛇射死我的護甲不射苦痛/臉-慘 : 最後收尾的胡佛我反而覺得還好 抽到其他傷害卡的機率很高 看到胡佛就笑笑就好了 : 反正這場看起來就是該輸的場 我盡力了 vs. Kolento The First Game I got super back luck in the beginning. I didn't get any of my useful 2 costs. (7 cards) It was a good decision that Kolento put the Juggler on board at turn 1. The T7 hunter can't do much against Grim-Patron-Warrior, so you need to take the oppornunity to bet that your opponent can't clean your combo. So kolento did take the oppornunity. The death of Mad-Science gave him Snake-Trap instead of Explosive-Trap. -50% The snakes-Juggler combo shot my Armorsmith--disaster. The Huffer in the end was ok. Kolento had many other dammage cards to end it. This game was on his side. I did everything I could. : 第二場 : 應該算是我賽的多一點 : 起手完全沒低費生物 天生技到T3-慘 : 但K神也T3才硬幣跳生物算是互相卡牌也還好 : 希瓦娜抓小軟泥-33% 慘 : 伐木機掉-水晶 -還好 有點影響但影響不大 可接受 : 這場節奏一直不太好 因為中間一直沒有低費生物來補曲線 : 只能硬著頭皮解場 : 軍需官報到-賽到歪頭 基本上絕對是當時的最佳解 其他可能是貓頭鷹或一視 : 但來軍需官絕對就是賽 沒啥好說 : 奉獻-奉獻反而還好 最後我手上還有聖療 也就是我有抽四張卡的機率抽到貓頭鷹/一視 : 雖然不算高但我覺得也還可接受了 The second game I got more luck overall. I didn't get low cost minions in the beginning-- disasterous. Kolento was about the same. He only get to use coin at turn 3. Sylvanas's death got the Ooze. -33% The Shredder's death was acceptable. Quartermaster! Soooooooo Lucky for my! Definitely the best draw at that turn. Other acceptable options are Awl and Equality. Later in the game, the turn that I draw consecration was ok. I alreday have Lay-on-Hands in hand, so that means I have 4 cards draw chance to get Awl/Equlity. : 第三場 : 這場其實要等到傳送門篇再來講解 : 我可以先給結論 這場我有大失誤 所以輸了活該 The third game. I will specify more later with Portal. Conclusion first. I deserved the loss. There was a huge error. : 第四場 : 奴隸打聖騎就這樣 : K神第一天賽到不行 : 這場正常發揮 就這樣 The forth game It's a normal Grim-Patron-Warrior vs. Pallidin game. (譯按：沒翻K神第一天賽到不行，感覺跟這場沒太大關係。) : 第五場 : 傳到藍龍超鳥的 : 而且我手牌能卡成那樣也是不簡單 衰到歪頭 : 更不用說戈莫克33%神躲 : 這場打到後來有點不想打了 傳送門篇跟失誤篇會再認真講解 : 總之卡牌卡到死 慘到不行 The fifth game Portalled Malygos, that was shitty. The draws were simply horrible, not to mention that 33% dodge rate of Gormok. Other things will be specify with Portal and Error paragraph. Overall, back luck. : 第六場 : 雙方手牌差不多 : 這邊我要特別提個 我起手抓貓頭鷹是非常針對K神的牌組的抓法 : 事實也奏效了 很多時候選手比賽看起手抓牌 : 反而可以看出很多這選手到底強不強的資訊 : 這場我覺得K神最後失誤害他輸了 : 失誤篇我再來提 The sixth game My draw lucks were about the same as Kolento. There's one thing I want to clarify. Keeping the Awl was something specifically against Kolento's deck. It worked quite well later. Sometimes you can tell if a player is good or not based on what he keeps. Later, Kolento made a huge mistake that cost the game. Will specify later. : 第七場 : 傳送門傳到3費以下非一血生物就結果論來說都行 這機率我算不出來XD : 但算是傳到相當不錯的東西(如果K神有2費嘲諷 3費技師就差很多 但沒有) : 烈焰火炮-50% : 大法師-其實這邊保守的算就好 我們只算我大到爆炸的生物 : 爆爆/炎魔/大法師 抽中的機率大概是20%吧 : 第二個傳送門-相當賽 剛好補足曲線 但我覺得這張已經不太影響結果了 : 最後一場基本上就是我賽到歪頭 The seventh game Actually I only needed to Portal a 1-3 cost non 1 health minion. I can't calculate the odds though. LOL Instead I got something really nice. However, Kolento didn't have 2 or 3 cost in hand, so it didn't differ much. Wrong target firing Flamecannon. -50% The Antonidas draw was ok. I could have drew other big minions like Ragnaros or Dr.Boom. About 20% I guess. The second portal was damn lucky for me, but I don't think that matters much. Overall, I was lucky as hell. : 其實最後一場覺得蠻遺憾的 我跟K神前面都盡全力互有來往 : 最後一場卻靠著運氣贏了K神 總覺得因此會抹滅我們這個精采的BO7 : (最後跟K神握手後情不自禁的說了:sorry for last game) : 把言論導向運氣遊戲 真心覺得這種感覺很差 : 說真的這次比賽我覺得我跟K神都值得這次冠軍 : K神非常努力地在短時間組出龍族套牌 : 我自己銀白出來到上飛機前只有50小時左右 大概只睡8小時其他時間都在試牌吧 : (完全不睡覺反而效率會超低) I feel pretty sad because of the last game. We had some close games, but ended up winning him out of luck. I somehow feel that it has erased the whole BO7. (At the end when I was shaking hands with Kolento, I can't help but say, "sorry for last game") People feel that it's just luck. I don't feel comfortable about that. I sincerely think both Kolento and I are worth to get the champion. Kolento managed to build up a Dragon deck so quickly. I only have 50 hours between the release and getting on the airplane. I slept only 8 hours, leaving all the time for testing decks. (It will be ineffecient if I don't sleep at all.) : 雖然我不是很喜歡這套法師 但短短的兩天內 我試的許多其他套牌更令我不滿意 : (我試牌至少一副20場+) : 德魯伊的話我是覺得龍族體質太優秀了 體質優秀的其他生物太多蠻克制德魯伊套牌的 : 新卡其實就我個人觀點 : 沒有真的幫到德魯伊多少 本來組了一副感覺還不錯的野獸德 但最後打的幾場狀況很差 : 就只好放棄了 所以這次才沒帶愛將德魯伊(而且我原本以為會有一堆聖騎) : 只有我跟K神直接三副裡面選了現在最op的聖騎(也許比奴隸差一點點) : 而且我們兩個都沒出現多少重大失誤 : 誰贏了都不奇怪 只能說我最後運氣比他好一點 贏下了最後一分 I don't like this Mage deck that much, but out of two days of testing, I favors other decks even less. (I test a new deck for at least 20 games) I feel that the dragons are powerful, the druid seems to get countered. In my opinion, I feel like the new cards didn't bring much to druid. At first I had a Beast-Druid deck, but after some tries I gave up. That's why I didn't bring my loving druid to the tournament this time. I thought there will be a lot of Pallidins, but only Kolento and I brought it. Both of us didn't make huge errors throughout the tournament. Either of us could have won. You could say I had a little more luck overall, and won the last game. : 其實pavel這次也打得很好 : 但他沒測試新牌 獵人在這個meta幾乎是一攤死水 : 他就輸在牌組的準備上輸人一大截 最後獵人被K神穿爆 I think pavel did qute well too. He wasn't testing new decks though. Hunter in this meta is kind of useless. He lost to Kolento due to his lack of deck preparation. : (傳送門篇) : 很多人看到傳送門傳出傳說就覺得太神了吧 : 但傳送門傳出最好的東西其實是剛好最符合你現在需求的生物 : 以節奏法來說很多時候其實比較希望傳出標準白板生物 : 或者剛好符合現在場面的特殊生物(大怪-BGH 嘲諷-黑騎 打秘密聖-魔鼓山) : 接下來一隻一隻解說 : 紅龍-非常好的結果 不過效果只扣6滴 所以其他大隻生物可能比較好一點 : 漁人-廢物 但大幅提升最後lethal的機率 : XX勇士-算是相當優質的結果了 剛好二費可以出出去 : 但因為這場打得太貪心失誤沒這樣做而輸 : 基本上4/5費白板等級生物都跟這隻的意思差不多 : 加茲魯維-廢物 5費3/6超慘 : 藍龍-如果我手牌三四費有東西出還不錯 但我那手牌配上這隻就是廢物中的廢物 : 尤其對上快攻你花了2mana卻什麼也沒做到 等於拱手讓敵人勝利 廢物 : 奈幽蛛網領主-還不錯 但如我上面提到 只要1-3費的非一血有一攻的生物都行 : 斯塔拉格-差不多就是最好的結果了 可能贈恨者比他好一點而已 : 整體來說其實一半好一半壞 : 我是不覺得我傳送門就有特別強啦 : 神運的傳送門是要配合你手上的法力曲線完美演出 : 才稱得上是神運 : 不然很多時候就只是傳說來雷門而已 PORTAL Many people find it amazing to see a Legend out of a Portal. But actually, the best card out of a Portal should be effective what you actually NEED NOW. Take tempo mage for instance, many times you just need a normal minion to put on board. Or if you are really lucky, means that you get something that counters your opponents board. Such as BGH vs big minions, The-Black-Knight vs. Taunt or Mogu'shan Warden against Secret-Palladin. Now, one by one let's take a look. 1. Alexstrasza - good for that time. only damge 6 points. There are other better options. 2. Murloc - trashy. However, gave big chance for lethal later. 3. Nexus Champion Saraad - very very good. Just what I to put on board for 2 cost. Same as other 4 or 5 cost normal minions. 4. Gazlowe - trashy. 5. Malygos - trashy at that time. If I had other minions to put on, it will benefit later. 6. Nerub'ar Weblord - not bad as I mentioned. I need 1-3 cost minion with at least 1 attack and more than 1 health. 7. Stalagg - almost the best at that time. You can see that the goods and bads are 50/50. I don't think that the Portal is an op card. If you can't get a minion that fits your mana curve, even a legend is a trash. : (失誤篇) : 先從自己的失誤講起 : 1.第一天龍的順序下錯了 但最後對面傷害超高 不影響結果 : 2.聖v.sK神那場 軍需官下來之後應該全部打臉 不應該去換 : 為什麼哩? : 這種時候我們只需要考慮AOE對吧 有可能解場的是 : 1.火占+Nova 這種結果的話 我主動去換會剩一隻2/2軍需官 : 也就是我前一回合少3傷害 後一回合多兩傷害 以要拚擊殺來說 不換比較好 : 2.費倫祝福+Nova 同上 : 3.伊瑟拉的覺醒(聖光炸彈看K神其他比賽就大概確定不可能放) : 有打臉K神剩三滴 沒辦法丟 沒打臉六滴可以丟 絕對是不換比較好 : 還好K神沒抽到覺醒 不然這手失誤很大 : 這邊順便提一下 看比賽我常常很兇的狂打臉 : 那是因為我認真考慮過對手能做的所有可能性 : 我會怎麼樣被懲罰? 有多少張可以懲罰我? 值不值得在這個對戰組合去冒這個風險? : 這些都需要非常長期的經驗累積 跟對所有職業牌組很深的了解 ERRORs First, I'd like to point out my own errors. 1. The first day, I placed the dragons in the wrong order. It didn't affect the result, though. 2. When I was playing Paladin against Kolento, after I placed the Quartermaster on board, I should deal all the damages to hero, rather than exchanging minions. Why? We should consider all the AOEs that the opponent might use. (1) Wild-Pyromancer + Holy-Nova : in this case only a 2/2 Quartermaster will be left on board if I chose to exchange. Velen's ChosenWhich means I will deal 3 damage to hero less last turn, and deal 2 more damage the next turn. It would be better to go all face, since I was looking to end the end soon. (2) Velen's-Chosen + Holy-Nova : same as above. (3) Lightbomb : from other games that I saw from Kolento, I considered that this card is not in his deck. (4) Ysera Awakens : if I go all face, Kolento would be only 3 health remaining, he won't be able to play the card. Luckily, Kolento didn't have Ysera Awakens, or I would be heavily punished. I quick note: sometimes you see me going all face, that's the result after my consideration all the possibilities that my opponent might do. How am I going to be punished? How many cards does he have to punish me? Is it worth the risk in this special match-up? These all count on player's experiences and deep understandings of all the decks. : 3.法師v.sK神戰士 : 看到勇士又進鏡像 想貪一個(裸下會遇到亞歷史卓莎的勇士/斬殺/盾猛) : 但這樣打超級無敵世界虧節奏 : 先不說二費什麼事都沒做(丟傳送門跟pass差不多) : 接下來回合還要點天生技才能發動抽牌效果 : 而抽牌效果對節奏牌組來說是不太重要的 : 這場就在前面打錯 祕法飛彈又沒打中嘲諷龍的狀態下輸了 : 當然沒打錯也不一定贏 但很有贏的可能性! 3. Mage vs. Kolento's warrior I became greedy after having both Nexus-Champion-Saraad and mirror-image in hand. (I was too afraid of Alexstrasza's Champion/Execute/Shield-bock) But pulling another Portal is just the same as passing another round, which loses my tempo. Not to mention that I needed another round to Inspire, and it doesn't do much for a tempo mage to have one more card. If I didn't make this error, I have better chance to win the game. : 4.法師v.sK神聖騎 : 這邊我要先自首 : 我本來想丟藍龍出去 結果他突然移動位置 就丟到蒼蘭龍了... : 但我後來再仔細想想 藍龍在我已經失血過多的情況下 只有進我唯一一張祕法飛彈有用 : 蒼蘭龍卻能幫助濾喚焰者 所以要我再打一次認真想 我可能還是不太確定丟哪張 : 以結果論來說 丟出藍龍 對面一定全打我臉 所以不知道我可以撐到哪時候 : 照後面進牌看來好像有機會又很微妙 4. Mage vs. Kolento's Palladin I confess. I wanted to pull out Malygos, but my mouse slipped. It was Azure-Drake, instead. But after considering more carefully, Malygos is not that good, since I don't have much health. It would only benefits me if I draw Arcane Missiles. However, Azure-Drake would give me more oppotunities to get Flamewaker. If you ask me again which one I should pull out, I still don't have an answer. To conclude, if I pull out Malygos, he surely would go all face, and I don't know how long I can stall. It seems like I have a little chance based on the cards I draw in the next few turns. It's a tricky question. : 5.關於Trump失誤(奴隸v.s術) : 食屍鬼絕對不是一張你到了T6還能放在場上的卡 : 就算對面有戰鬥狂怒 你炸掉跟對面來撞還是你炸掉比較好(對面撞可以先出生物) : 跟不用提戰哥白沫可以衝出來了 尤其巨人打奴隸算是優勢對決 : 這種時候一定是打得越保守越好 而且多抽一張牌我不覺得在T7後能做到多少事情 : 當然我覺得這場打到這個狀況 其實trump已經輸定了 所以可能不太影響吧 5. About Trump's Error (Grim-Patron-Warrior vs. Warlock) Ghoul is definitely not the card that should remain on board at turn 6. Even if the opponent have Battle-Rage in hand, it's still better to clear the Ghoul. Also, there might be a Warsong + Frothing Berserker combo coming. Handlock is superior against Grim-Patron-Warrior, so he should be more conservative. Pulling one more card at turn 7 won't do much. Anyway, I think based on the situation, the game was already on my side. What he have or have not doned might not differ much. : 6.關於K神失誤(牧師v.s術) : 在我用暗焰的前一回合 K神貪了兩個 : 一個是選擇不撞5攻生物 最後剛好被我爽炸 : 另外一個是不選擇buff自己二費嘲諷 而決定再出一隻生物 : 這邊要來解說一下為什麼buff比較好 : 雙嘲諷為什麼比單嘲諷好? : 單嘲諷會怕貓頭鷹/靈魂虹吸 : 但有在看我之前比賽就會知道我沒有虹吸(基本上應該推得出來) : 貓頭鷹一張還兩張就沒有那麼絕對 但以藍龍術的正常配置來說 : 通常是放一張 而且前幾場我也有快把牌庫抽完 大概可以猜得出來我沒有第二張的 : 雙嘲諷怕的則是掃場 我的地獄烈焰/暗影之焰都還沒有出現 : 兩個都可以把K神的場面清的相當乾淨 暗焰我剩兩隻 地獄剩一隻4/1 : 再來提到如果有貓頭鷹 雙嘲諷也只需要再補3點傷害 一樣可以達成lethal : 而三點對藍龍術來講並不是非常困難的一件事: 6.關於K神失誤(牧師v.s術) : 在我用暗焰的前一回合 K神貪了兩個 : 一個是選擇不撞5攻生物 最後剛好被我爽炸 : 另外一個是不選擇buff自己二費嘲諷 而決定再出一隻生物 : 這邊要來解說一下為什麼buff比較好 : 雙嘲諷為什麼比單嘲諷好? : 單嘲諷會怕貓頭鷹/靈魂虹吸 : 但有在看我之前比賽就會知道我沒有虹吸(基本上應該推得出來) : 貓頭鷹一張還兩張就沒有那麼絕對 但以藍龍術的正常配置來說 : 通常是放一張 而且前幾場我也有快把牌庫抽完 大概可以猜得出來我沒有第二張的 : 雙嘲諷怕的則是掃場 我的地獄烈焰/暗影之焰都還沒有出現 : 兩個都可以把K神的場面清的相當乾淨 暗焰我剩兩隻 地獄剩一隻4/1 : 再來提到如果有貓頭鷹 雙嘲諷也只需要再補3點傷害 一樣可以達成lethal : 而三點對藍龍術來講並不是非常困難的一件事 : 綜合以上分析 我覺得這邊單嘲諷上buff一定是比較好的選擇 6. About Kolento's error (Priest vs. Warlock) Before the turn that I used Shadowflame, kolento was too greedy for two times. One was choosing not to damage my 5-attack minion. The other is not to buff his own 2-cost minion, and chose to pull out another minion. Why is buffing his minion better? Why are two taunts better than one? One taunt fears Awl/Siphon-Soul. (but I think Kolento knows that I don't have Siphon-Soul in the deck) It is hard to tell whether I have one or two Awls in the deck, but usually Malygos-Warlock brings only one Awl. (he can also tell from one of the games that I almost emptied my deck) Anyway, having two taunts is afraid of is fear of board cleaning abilities. Both my Hellfire and Shadowflame hasn't appeared yet. Both of these will clear Kolento's board, and I will have minions remaining. (2 minions in the case of Shadowflame, one 4/1 in the case of Hellfire.) If I have an Awl, even if two taunts are there, 3 more damage is all I need to achieve lethal. (which is easy for Malygos-Warlock) Comparing all the odds, I think buffing his minion is definitely a better choice. : 如果對相關的分析還有興趣可以看我粉絲團上次大賽的檢討/牌組文 : https://www.facebook.com/tom60229 If you are interested in more analysis of the last tournament, please visit my fb. https://www.facebook.com/tom60229 : 我覺得現在爐石比較可憐的地方在於 : 賽評只敢揣測現在選手在防守什麼 : 而不敢判斷這決定是好的或壞的(而且賽評跟選手的水準其實差非常多) : 所以很多不太理解的人就會覺得 喔~他這樣打好像也沒錯啊 : 只是運氣比較差所以輸了 錯了 很多時候都絕對有機率上比較好的選擇 : 甚至有些時候可以根據對方出過的牌判斷對面手上有那些東西 : 很多選手比賽也是失誤連連 但觀眾看不出來 : 很多選手比賽打的超級穩健完美 但觀眾也看不出來 : 於是爐石比賽的記憶點就變成了topdeck rng : 比賽贏的人就都是運氣好 輸的就是運氣不好 I feel sorry for the fact that in Hearthstone tournaments, the commentators can only guess what the players are afraid of. They dare not judge if it was good or bad. (probably because the commentators and the players are in a different level of gameplaying) So it sometimes misleads the viewers. They might think it's just back luck and the player didn't make a mistake. Wrong. In most cases, there are definitely better choices based on odds. Sometimes you can even tell what the opponent have in hand based on what they've done. Sometimes a player made a lot of mistakes, but the viewers don't know. Sometimes a player made so many perfect plays, yet the viewers don't know either. Therefore, hearthstone tournaments are remembered by those topdeck RNG moments. If you win, it's luck. It you lose, it's bad luck. : 打這麼多只是想告訴大家 : 爐石絕對是個需要運氣才能贏的遊戲 : 但爐石同樣包含了相當大量的技術成分 : 只是非常難看得出來 : 而技術高超的玩家如K神 firebat : 你會發現他們常常在大賽進到四強 去查戰績你會發現他們勝率明顯比其他人高一截 : 難道這些也都是靠運氣累積出來的嗎?? : 希望大家能好好想想 : 最後我想說 : 今年一整年我打進了10多個大大小小的資格賽 : 拿了台灣區資格(blizzcon太緊張打很差真的很對不起台灣觀眾) : 鐵人論壇冠軍 這兩次國際大比賽冠軍 : 我認為我運氣的確相當不錯 : 但我對我的實力也是絕對非常有自信的 : 如果這些例子都不能說服你爐石需要相當程度的技術 : 那我也找不出更好的例子了 I wrote all this to send one messege. Yes, Hearthstone needs luck to win game. Yet, Hearthstone contains a lot of skill within. These skills are very hard to been seen. But let's take a look at Kolento and Firebat. Their win rates are a lot higher than other pros in the tournaments, and they are often in the final or semi-final. Why is that? Out of Luck? This year I've played more than a dozen of qualifiers to get the qualification of Taiwan-zone. (sorry for my underperforming in blizzcon) The two champions that I got recently were out of decent luck. But I am also very confident with my skill. If these examples can persuade you that Hearthstone needs a mount of skills, I have no other words to say. -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 1.34.108.142 ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Hearthstone/M.1441163970.A.2A8.html ※ 編輯: Severus (1.34.108.142), 09/02/2015 11:19:46 ※ 編輯: Severus (1.34.108.142), 09/02/2015 11:19:58
推
09/02 11:23, , 1F
猛 推個！
09/02 11:23, 1F
推
09/02 11:27, , 2F
等翻完轉reddit吧
09/02 11:27, 2F
推
09/02 11:33, , 3F
推翻譯
09/02 11:33, 3F
推
09/02 11:33, , 4F
猛
09/02 11:33, 4F
推
09/02 11:34, , 5F
第五段 compensate->compensation
09/02 11:34, 5F
推
09/02 11:36, , 6F
portal 前講pavel那段 I lost->He lost
09/02 11:36, 6F
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09/02 11:37, , 7F
坦白講語法錯誤有不少....但還是辛苦了orz
09/02 11:37, 7F
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09/02 11:37, , 8F
例如I don't like this Mage deck pretty well 沒人
09/02 11:37, 8F
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09/02 11:38, , 9F
這樣講的啦 改成I dont like this deck that much
09/02 11:38, 9F
推
09/02 11:39, , 10F
打trump第三場奧多爾不翻也沒差啦 我只是想說沒生物
09/02 11:39, 10F
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09/02 11:39, , 11F
下一句有問題 我說的打出伐木機是攻擊trump的伐木機
09/02 11:39, 11F
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09/02 11:40, , 12F
末日早掉出來 沒有聖療在手 trump血線很高
09/02 11:40, 12F
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09/02 11:41, , 13F
trump可以先開始鋪場 很有可能讓這場遊戲是不同結果
09/02 11:41, 13F
推
09/02 11:41, , 14F
很會
09/02 11:41, 14F
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09/02 11:42, , 15F
打K神2費我是七張 猛擊只有一張
09/02 11:42, 15F
推
09/02 11:43, , 16F
很多用字有更好的選擇，不過有翻有推
09/02 11:43, 16F
推
09/02 11:44, , 17F
然後感謝幫翻譯~
09/02 11:44, 17F
推
09/02 11:47, , 18F
推翻譯，辛苦了
09/02 11:47, 18F
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09/02 11:49, , 19F
感謝，回去修。
09/02 11:49, 19F
推
09/02 11:51, , 20F
各個選手帶聖騎的部分 只能確定前三副
09/02 11:51, 20F
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09/02 11:51, , 21F
第四副trump也有帶 我覺得還是要稍微提一下
09/02 11:51, 21F
推
09/02 12:08, , 22F
翻譯辛苦了
09/02 12:08, 22F
推
09/02 12:13, , 23F
想練英文就多看點書 想玩爐石就不要逞強秀英文
09/02 12:13, 23F
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09/02 12:14, , 24F
身為台灣人我衷心希望這種英文不要出現在國際論壇
09/02 12:14, 24F
推
09/02 12:17, , 25F
樓上那麼強你翻 有錯誤的地方修正就好
09/02 12:17, 25F
推
09/02 12:17, , 26F
真的不太順
09/02 12:17, 26F
推
09/02 12:17, , 27F
你可以也翻一篇教學相長~不然幫他改正也是可以
09/02 12:17, 27F
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09/02 12:18, , 28F
通常都盡量用人稱主詞為開頭
09/02 12:18, 28F
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09/02 12:18, , 29F
沒有必要這樣就賭上身為台灣人XD
09/02 12:18, 29F
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09/02 12:19, , 30F
人家韓國人英文爛個一逼 還不是都很敢說.(星海)
09/02 12:19, 30F
推
09/02 12:20, , 31F
第一句我會翻I read many comments about how lucky
09/02 12:20, 31F
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09/02 12:20, , 32F
I was during the tournament
09/02 12:20, 32F
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09/02 12:20, , 33F
原PO翻譯在加油吧.
09/02 12:20, 33F
推
09/02 12:20, , 34F
英文沒很好又怎樣 這樣別人會看不懂？
09/02 12:20, 34F
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09/02 12:21, , 35F
不過畢竟是完整的文 能夠完整翻好在過去 也是比較好
09/02 12:21, 35F
推
09/02 12:23, , 36F
覺得可以用same luck as I do
09/02 12:23, 36F
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09/02 12:23, , 37F
那個six前科一堆 專門放那種馬後砲就閃人的那種
09/02 12:23, 37F
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09/02 12:24, , 38F
而且推的文經常遊走在板規邊緣 跟他認真就輸了
09/02 12:24, 38F
推
09/02 12:24, , 39F
原來如此XD 害我認真惹
09/02 12:24, 39F
還有 47 則推文
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09/02 15:33, , 87F
卻比香港人還在意發音
09/02 15:33, 87F
推
09/02 15:33, , 88F
認真給推但說真的希望不要轉...有很高的機率被酸英
09/02 15:33, 88F
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09/02 15:33, , 89F
文能力然後轉移焦點...
09/02 15:33, 89F
推
09/02 15:37, , 90F
我怎麼覺得先聲明自己英文不夠好就好，難不成非母語
09/02 15:37, 90F
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09/02 15:37, , 91F
不能發言嗎......
09/02 15:37, 91F
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09/02 15:38, , 92F
那個地方比PTT更凶狠 你覺得他們會管你嗎...
09/02 15:38, 92F
推
09/02 15:41, , 93F
我也不知道，但每個地方都有蠢貨，因噎廢食沒必要吧
09/02 15:41, 93F
推
09/02 15:46, , 94F
酸民只會比想討論的人還多...
09/02 15:46, 94F
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09/02 15:46, , 95F
你看看八卦版吧 我覺得湊熱鬧的人更多
09/02 15:46, 95F
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09/02 15:47, , 96F
或是一些熱門大版
09/02 15:47, 96F
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09/02 15:47, , 97F
我是覺得要就盡量做到好 以免好意被模糊掉
09/02 15:47, 97F
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09/02 15:47, , 98F
做到好自然會有正常一點的人幫忙說話
09/02 15:47, 98F
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09/02 15:48, , 99F
這種直接式的中翻英 發上去就是被狂戰英文而已
09/02 15:48, 99F
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09/02 15:48, , 100F
noooooooo 我翻的文章結果ptt斷連結 T_T
09/02 15:48, 100F
推
09/02 15:48, , 101F
會討厭亞洲人的就是會阿，翻譯過去還是可以幫大哥增
09/02 15:48, 101F
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09/02 15:48, , 102F
加人氣吧
09/02 15:48, 102F
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09/02 15:49, , 103F
呵呵 種族歧視跟語言歧視不會因為一篇文而改變的
09/02 15:49, 103F
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09/02 15:49, , 104F
所以我就說不用因噎廢食阿......
09/02 15:49, 104F
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09/02 15:50, , 105F
要就是做到不會被挑英文來戰 不然就真的別發
09/02 15:50, 105F
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09/02 15:50, , 106F
發了只是被模糊焦點 之後比賽chat狂戰你英文差
09/02 15:50, 106F
推
09/02 15:54, , 107F
照這樣講你只要說是翻譯就可以開戰了，要挑文法母語
09/02 15:54, 107F
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09/02 15:54, , 108F
照挑哪有可能倖免
09/02 15:54, 108F
※ 編輯: Severus (1.34.108.142), 09/02/2015 17:55:11
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09/02 18:31, , 109F
的確很多地方可以修啦 同意修好點再轉去較妥當
09/02 18:31, 109F
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09/02 18:32, , 110F
版上人很多應該有專業的能幫忙(釣板主)
09/02 18:32, 110F
※ 編輯: Severus (1.34.108.142), 09/02/2015 18:40:15 ※ 編輯: Severus (1.34.108.142), 09/02/2015 18:41:11
推
09/02 18:41, , 111F
先推以防被說看不懂
09/02 18:41, 111F
推
09/02 20:38, , 112F
借問ㄧ下，請問vod上哪找
09/02 20:38, 112F
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09/02 21:05, , 113F
不過電玩心得戰文法實在是....又不是比外語能力...
09/02 21:05, 113F
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09/02 21:38, , 114F
你想像一下 有篇中國服文章沒轉換直接放過來
09/02 21:38, 114F
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09/02 21:38, , 115F
沒轉換成台灣翻譯 下面會怎推文就可以想像了
09/02 21:38, 115F
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09/02 21:39, , 116F
能避免還是盡量避免啦
09/02 21:39, 116F
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09/02 22:17, , 117F
是啦 但還是怪 畢竟簡體用字跟英文文法不算很雷同
09/02 22:17, 117F
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09/02 22:18, , 118F
很多老外打的英文比我們還簡單
09/02 22:18, 118F
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09/02 22:19, , 119F
我還是別模糊本文了 恭喜大哥
09/02 22:19, 119F
推
09/02 22:51, , 120F
簡體字的舉例特別貼切 國外英文文法爛我猜也是他們
09/02 22:51, 120F
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09/02 22:51, , 121F
習慣的爛法 我們爛估計不被接受
09/02 22:51, 121F
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09/02 22:52, , 122F
還是推翻譯
09/02 22:52, 122F
噓
09/04 00:00, , 123F
最後一句應該是can't persuade
09/04 00:00, 123F
, , 124F
ad
‣ 更多 Severus 的文章
文章代碼(AID): #1Lvch2Ae (Hearthstone)
‣ 更多 Severus 的文章
文章代碼(AID): #1Lvch2Ae (Hearthstone)