Re: [分享] Why GW2 might not be the MMO for you

看板GuildWars作者 (未來。正來。)時間11年前 (2012/10/04 16:44), 編輯推噓26(27123)
留言51則, 25人參與, 最新討論串3/3 (看更多)
做為英文的翻譯練習,把 M 板友略過的部份也補上了。 Why GW2 might not be the MMO for you. 為什麼 GW2 可能不是適合你的網路遊戲 MMO = massively multiplayer online (大型多人線上遊戲) 以下簡稱多人網路遊戲 Heaps of people have been complaining about the lack of endgame, the excessive grind(*), the not excessive enough grind, and everything else in between. 很多人抱怨這個遊戲封頂之後沒事可做、重覆的任務太多或太少,和其他介於之間 的問題。 (*註:grind 在遊戲方面的註解是 the process of engaging in repetitive tasks 反覆進行同個任務的過程。) It's easy to discount these opinions when you're a fan of the game, but the reality is this mentality is part of the MMO culture and for some gamers it is a prerequisite of any MMO. 如果你喜歡這個遊戲,你可以很容易地忽略這些意見。但事實是,這樣的心態是多人 網路遊戲文化的一部份,甚至對某些玩家來說,這是任何遊戲被稱為 "多人網路遊戲" 的先決條件。 Traditionally, MMO's have used skinner box(*) psychology to keep players busy in their games. This is often manifested as a gear(**) treadmill, where you are always aspiring to reach a certain goal but that goal is continually shifted further and further out. This is end game as most players know it. 傳統上,多人網路遊戲利用 skinner box 的心理來保持玩家在遊戲裡的忙碌狀態。 這種機制通常設計成 "裝備跑步機" :當你渴望達到某個目標的時候,這個目標同時 也持續往更遠的地方移動。這是大部份玩家所知道的 "封頂 (end game)" 。 (*skinner box 指的是一個動物行為測試,當實驗大白鼠對特定刺激做出正確的反應 時,就能得到食物或其他的獎勵,但當它做出不正確的反應時,會得到懲罰。 延伸到遊戲方面,指的是利用運作複雜的時間表來強化對重覆動作的獎勵。) (**gear 除了齒輪之外也有裝備的意思) The logic behind this is clear and financially motivated. MMO's are traditionally a subscription based model so the burden is on the publisher/developer to sustain a playerbase that will perpetually pay their monthly subscription. 隱藏在這種邏輯背後的是明顯的財務動機。多人線上遊戲傳統上依靠的收入來自玩 家定期支付的費用,因此遊戲發行者和開發者面對的問題是如何使一定數目的玩家願 意持續支付每個月的遊戲費用。 The side effects of this model are readily apparent: the developer is forced to neuter difficulty in an attempt to make the game more accessible to casuals (the widest consumer base), and must constantly reinforce the need to keep raiding/pvping through rewards. Without those rewards in place the skinner box model falls apart. 這個模式的副作用是顯而易見的:遊戲的開發者被迫降低難度以迎合消費族群中最廣 大的非職業玩家,同時也必需持續地增加副本和PVP的獎勵以加強玩家的動機。如果 沒有這些獎勵,skinner box 的模式也就不存在了。 I believe this is the crux of why some people take issue with GW2. Arenanet has released a game that challenges all of these concepts. GW2 is an intrinsically rewarding game, meaning the enjoyment is meant to come from playing the game itself. 我相信這是有些人認為 GW2 有問題的癥結所在。Arenanet發行了一款挑戰這些概念 的遊戲,而 GW2 是一款 "以本質做為獎勵" 的遊戲,這表示遊戲的樂趣來自 "玩遊戲" 本身。 (以上這段板友翻譯得比較順暢) Think about games like Counter-Strike, Battlefield 3, DoTA, and StarCraft. As you invest more time playing each of those games you become a better player. That's pretty much it. They focus on your skill improvement as a means to enduring entertainment. They do not make a grind necessary nor do you gain permanent character improvements that set you apart from your competitors. They are intrinsically rewarding. 想想 CS, BF3, DoTA, 和 SC,你在這些遊戲上花更多的時間讓你變成技術更好的玩家, 也差不多就是這樣了,它們的重點在於提升玩家的技術以提供更長久的娛樂,重覆的任 務或動作不是必須的,也不會給玩家的角色帶來任何能夠優於對手的永久改變,這些都 是以遊戲本質做為獎勵的遊戲。 Contrast that with your average MMO and you find a system that isn't intrinsically rewarding. End game typically consists of new raid encounters with a new carrot dangling from that stick: shiny new gear. The gear will become a prerequisite for the next tier so you're going to need to get it all. The new challenges are exciting for the first week or so, particularly for guilds that get ranked kills but then turn into mindlessly farming the same content until the entire guild is geared up. 做為對比的是一般的多人線上遊戲和其他遊戲本質不是獎勵的系統。封頂之後通常包 含了新的副本以及新的胡蘿蔔:閃亮的新裝備;這些裝備通常會變成進到下個挑戰的 先決條件,所以玩家需要得到所有的新裝。這些新的挑戰在第一個星期左右很新奇, 尤其是那些拿到首殺的公會,但接下來這些挑戰會轉變成無腦的農裝,一直到所有的 公會成員都拿到新的裝備為止。 As soon as that's done, it's time to rinse and repeat. This style of play means the game is forcing motivation upon you. You are often playing not for the virtue of enjoyment itself but to remain relevant as the goal post continues to shift. Your previous time investment becomes a reason to not quit. 當換裝的動作完成之後,接下來又會出現新的副本重覆同樣的過程,這種遊玩的形式 代表遊戲強迫玩家維持對遊戲的動機。玩家常常不是因為享受遊戲本身而玩,而是為 了保持與持續遠離的目標之間的距離,你已經花在這個遊戲裡的時間最後成為一個無 法退出的理由。 Make no mistake, end game in every other AAA MMO(*) has been incredibly grindy and boring once you score the first kill. As someone who has scored US top 20 kills throughout WoTLK and Cataclysm, I can attest to the fact that this sentiment is shared by nearly every raider I've played with. It also makes playing the game a chore - you can't stop or take a break because it sets you and your teammates behind on the treadmill. 毫無疑問地,每個由大型遊戲公司所開發的網路遊戲所設計的 "封頂" 已經是令人 難以置信地反覆過程,一旦取得首殺之後也變得枯燥無味。做為一個曾經在巫妖王之怒 和大災變取得美國前 20 殺的玩家,我可以證明一個事實:這種感覺是幾乎所有和我 一起過打副本的玩家所共有的,也讓玩遊戲變成一個苦差事:你不能停下來或休息一下, 因為這會讓你的裝備落後,拉開你和隊友之間的距離。 (*AAA MMO 我查了網路上的註解,有一說指的是由大型遊戲開發公司 (如 SOE, blizzard等) 耗費大量的成本 (高於兩億美金) 所製作的,這不代表遊戲一定是 好的,但至少代表開發者在各方面都努力讓他所發行的是好遊戲。) There will be a certain class of player that craves this motivation. For them, they need the sense of accomplishment baked into skinner box psychology in order to motivate them. 有一群特定的玩家渴望這種動機,對他們來說,他們需要從 skinner box 得到的成就感 激勵他們。 GW2 is different. If you crave this, you might find the game unfulfilling. So to those players I say you aren't wrong about your opinions, but GW2 may just not be the MMO for you. 但GW2 是不同的,如果你渴望這種模式,你會覺得遊戲不過癮。因此,對這些玩家我會 說,不是你的意見不對,只是 GW2 可能不是適合你的多人網路遊戲。 TLDR(*): The rewards are playing the game. 給直接 end 的人:這個遊戲的獎勵是玩遊戲本身。 (*TLDR = Too long. Didn't read) -- 非常想說什麼。 但是說出來的,通常都不是什麼。 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 111.240.67.35

10/04 17:02, , 1F
推翻譯
10/04 17:02, 1F

10/04 17:04, , 2F
推翻議
10/04 17:04, 2F

10/04 17:04, , 3F
push
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10/04 17:12, , 4F
10/04 17:12, 4F
※ 編輯: twinkle 來自: 111.240.67.35 (10/04 17:16)

10/04 17:39, , 5F
推推...
10/04 17:39, 5F

10/04 17:50, , 6F
10/04 17:50, 6F

10/04 18:01, , 7F
推翻譯
10/04 18:01, 7F

10/04 18:10, , 8F
簡單一句話 本遊戲封頂後 不會給你任何成就感
10/04 18:10, 8F

10/04 18:10, , 9F
能玩本遊戲就是最大的好處
10/04 18:10, 9F

10/04 18:38, , 10F
真的 不用上班打卡真的很讚 不會因為沒空刷副本就跟不上人
10/04 18:38, 10F

10/04 18:50, , 11F
其實我覺得如果要做跟CS、SC之類遊戲相同成就感的MMO
10/04 18:50, 11F

10/04 18:51, , 12F
開房間型的(如龍之谷)就已經做到了 利用評分標準來給
10/04 18:51, 12F

10/04 18:52, , 13F
獎勵而且刷一場時間又少 GW2可能很難達成這種理想
10/04 18:52, 13F

10/04 18:52, , 14F
10/04 18:52, 14F

10/04 18:59, , 15F
開房形GW一代就是這樣 但這樣的玩法也會有他的限制
10/04 18:59, 15F

10/04 18:59, , 16F
大世界上的互動是不一樣的感覺
10/04 18:59, 16F

10/04 19:13, , 17F
其實我覺得gw2 沒有大世界互動感 因為事件沒做不影響npc
10/04 19:13, 17F

10/04 19:14, , 18F
應該說影響很小 到可以忽視
10/04 19:14, 18F

10/04 19:32, , 19F
用評分標準來給獎勵的副本GW早就做過了...
10/04 19:32, 19F

10/04 19:47, , 20F
這樣還叫影響很少…
10/04 19:47, 20F

10/04 19:53, , 21F
WOW屠城感覺都比現在GW2的動態好玩多是事實
10/04 19:53, 21F

10/04 19:54, , 22F
蠻期待以後資料片會出改變更多的動態任務
10/04 19:54, 22F

10/04 19:54, , 23F
本來就影響很少
10/04 19:54, 23F

10/04 19:56, , 24F
WOW屠城要拿去跟WvW比了吧……怎麼會跟動態任務比
10/04 19:56, 24F

10/04 20:04, , 25F
gw2這叫影響很少 那八成的mmo叫什麼?
10/04 20:04, 25F

10/04 20:08, , 26F
就連wow 除了大事件外 npc也是解完了 就在那邊等下個人
10/04 20:08, 26F

10/04 20:25, , 27F
GW2的理念是這樣,可是兌換副本裝與此矛盾...
10/04 20:25, 27F

10/04 20:33, , 28F
又把WOW拖出來鞭...可以不要比爛嗎
10/04 20:33, 28F

10/04 20:34, , 29F
換造型如果真的跟神裝一樣有吸引力,就不會有那麼多玩家
10/04 20:34, 29F

10/04 20:34, , 30F
嚷著說End game沒東西玩了XD
10/04 20:34, 30F

10/04 20:35, , 31F
原來拿現在的standard叫做鞭(筆計)
10/04 20:35, 31F

10/04 20:36, , 32F
有吸引力的人又不會上來抱怨 不然你當那麼多團是哪來?
10/04 20:36, 32F

10/04 21:15, , 33F
翻譯的很好,太強了!
10/04 21:15, 33F

10/04 22:37, , 34F
10/04 22:37, 34F

10/04 22:51, , 35F
我的推文被修掉了?
10/04 22:51, 35F

10/04 22:54, , 36F
我沒有修掉推文噢,只有在 17:16 的時候改過文章的內文
10/04 22:54, 36F

10/04 22:55, , 37F
看錯篇 補推<(_ _)>
10/04 22:55, 37F

10/05 04:05, , 38F
結尾可能忘了補一句"可惜的是動態事件跟我們想的不一樣"
10/05 04:05, 38F

10/05 06:02, , 39F
龍之谷光疲勞值就像打卡上班了哪裡是GW2追求的感覺...
10/05 06:02, 39F

10/05 07:31, , 40F
那我只好沉痛地告訴你,GW2動態事件對遊戲的影響,還沒有
10/05 07:31, 40F

10/05 07:32, , 41F
WOW來的豐富、來得好玩,在GW2中動態任務失敗了,頂多
10/05 07:32, 41F

10/05 07:34, , 42F
沒傳點、沒商人,對世界有影響嗎?! 一點點...WOW!?
10/05 07:34, 42F

10/05 07:35, , 43F
伺服器事件就算了,雖然好玩,但只有特定日子才會發生
10/05 07:35, 43F

10/05 07:38, , 44F
以冬握為例子,想打亞夏就得先拿下冬握,或者聲望系統...等
10/05 07:38, 44F

10/05 09:24, , 45F
樓上的胡蘿波真可口
10/05 09:24, 45F

10/05 12:30, , 46F
東握的例子不過就是WvW 看你要不要努力去獲得那加成
10/05 12:30, 46F

10/05 12:31, , 47F
當然沒有到東握沒打下來就沒得打副本那麼強烈
10/05 12:31, 47F

10/05 12:32, , 48F
不過喜歡東握的通常是勝利的一方把 輸的一方還會說
10/05 12:32, 48F

10/05 12:32, , 49F
:東握是什麼地方 能吃嗎?
10/05 12:32, 49F

10/05 13:59, , 50F
wow不管什麼任務 不管什麼副本 打不打都無所謂 不影響
10/05 13:59, 50F

10/05 13:59, , 51F
哥從頭到尾就只打戰場和競技場 愛則拉斯也不會爆炸
10/05 13:59, 51F
文章代碼(AID): #1GRKnbxH (GuildWars)
文章代碼(AID): #1GRKnbxH (GuildWars)