[爆卦] 美媒:印度將取代中國成為金磚龍頭!消失

看板Gossiping作者時間6年前 (2017/09/21 21:52), 編輯推噓7(282140)
留言89則, 58人參與, 最新討論串1/9 (看更多)
2017.9.20 富士比:印度將取代中國成為金磚龍頭! 文中指稱: 中國正面臨巨額債務, 市場緊縮, 房市泡沫, 工資高漲等一系列問題, 以及越來越極權腐敗的政治環境, 政府濫用公權力干預市場. 相比印度有更低廉的人力, 多元化的民主社會, 擁有很大的投資潛力, 未來將取代中國成為金磚龍頭. The recent BRICS meeting in Xiamen formed the setting for what appeared to be a rapprochement between its two key members, India and China. It was preceded by a rather sudden diplomatic resolution to the recent Doklam (Donglang) crisis which saw Indian and Chinese troops step back from possible confrontation. This was widely viewed to have been agreed at the initiative of the Chinese, eager to secure the attendance of Narendra Modi at the immediately following BRICS meeting. Although the BRICS concept is long past its pomp, it is clear that China still values it as a diplomatic forum, either for what is discussed and agreed while it takes place, or for the appearance that emerges of the Chinese engaged in a multilateral forum in which they take centre stage. Indeed, China has long been the real engine behind the BRICS, given that both Brazil and Russia (B and R respectively) were dependent on the China driven commodity boom and South Africa (the S) is there to make up numbers. The real quandary, however, was always India. Without India, the "BRCS" would be harder to pronounce but perhaps a little easier to understand. Conceived by Goldman Sachs as a Powerpoint acronym to describe high growth emerging markets, there was always something slightly ad hoc about the arrangement, a useful thumb sketch perhaps, shorthand for time-poor, knowledge-light bankers and investment managers to add a patina of granularity to their boom dependent punts. In reality an almost endless, debt fuelled Chinese investment cascade fuelled what many mistook for a commodity super-cycle that flattered Russia and Brazil, and made India seem like the tortoise to China's hare. All about the growth The key problem with the BRICS was always that there is little that unites them all aside from a once shared propensity for high rates of growth. This is fine if all you seek are outlets for investment capital, but rather begs an assessment of–in each case–what that growth implies. A recent explainer by Michael Pettis makes the obvious, but seemingly not widely understood, point that 'GDP does not distinguish between activity that increases a country's wealth and activity that doesn't'. And in making this point he obliges readers to move beyond simplistic "GDPism" towards making judgements about the quality of investments in each case. Rising GDP, in other words, needn't always been good news. It might in fact be disguising some very bad news indeed. Here also is where China and India diverge. For all the fanfare laid on for the BRICS in Xiamen, the association has always been fundamentally driven by the development trajectories of those two Asian supergiants; China and India. Brazil and Russia, being primarily commodity suppliers, ride the international consequences of growth in those other two giants, but aside from that have little to contribute. In recent years China has driven the global economy with its rapid investment and export focussed growth while India has grown more slowly and organically. The upshot is that China has huge amounts of infrastructure and an economy that must now service enormous amounts of debt. The staggering GDP growth figures they have achieved over many years have yet to register the consequences of all that investment and if much of it generates little or no return, the consequent write-downs will weigh down on China's GDP figures for years to come. Some estimate coming write-downs in excess of 35% of GDP, which according to Pettis' formula would mean China's economy is actually much smaller than its reported GDP. India, on the other hand, registered a growth rate higher than China last year, and while India's economy is much smaller than China's right now, in contrast to China it has a great deal of catch up growth ahead of it, and– again unlike China–has a government with an appetite for structural reform as a key driver for future growth, rather than debt-fuelled investment and exports. What would Goldman Sachs say now? Setting aside China's effort to build the BRICS into a cooperative forum, the same formula that generated the BRICS concept would produce a wildly different set of results today. China, with its enormous debts, closed capital markets, asset bubbles and increasing communist party interference in the economy would look like an entirely different kind of investment prospect than India, with its greater growth potential, favorable demographics, open and pluralist society and reform minded government. Indeed, apart from both being large economies it's hard to imagine anyone putting the two economies in the same category anymore. All of which provides a useful contrast between the original concept of the BRICS as a meaningful investment destination premised largely on impressive growth rates, and its more recent emergence as a forum for the projection of influence. Because if the BRICS were originally premised on GDP growth, then as long China's GDP growth becomes increasingly dependent on self-defeating credit expansion, India looks the better bet. Furthermore, given the emphasis China placed on securing the attendance of Narendra Modi at Xiamen, it appears China might already understand this quite well. https://www.forbes.com/sites/douglasbulloch/2017/09/20/india-not-china-is-now-central-to-the-future-of-the-brics/#7806af525d1e -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 61.63.97.67 ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Gossiping/M.1506001958.A.2E2.html

09/21 21:53, , 1F
強姦大國
09/21 21:53, 1F

09/21 21:53, , 2F
老實說,不可能
09/21 21:53, 2F

09/21 21:53, , 3F
中國或成最大贏家
09/21 21:53, 3F

09/21 21:53, , 4F
show bob and vegana
09/21 21:53, 4F

09/21 21:54, , 5F
印度整個GDP加起來都沒有一個廣東省多
09/21 21:54, 5F

09/21 21:54, , 6F
因為廣東省GDP相當於俄羅斯,深圳市GDP相當台灣
09/21 21:54, 6F

09/21 21:54, , 7F
為什麼都沒人用數字實力說話?滿滿政治腦
09/21 21:54, 7F

09/21 21:55, , 8F
很難,這論點已經很久了,然而基礎建設差距大,人民受教育
09/21 21:55, 8F

09/21 21:56, , 9F
程度差距大,就算要比政府效能印度也會輸
09/21 21:56, 9F

09/21 21:56, , 10F
沒有制度的國家很難強大
09/21 21:56, 10F

09/21 21:56, , 11F
美媒不知唱衰中國多少年了......但是每年都失望XD
09/21 21:56, 11F

09/21 21:56, , 12F
腦殘評論 反正就是民主好棒棒 中國一定崩
09/21 21:56, 12F

09/21 21:56, , 13F
中國GDP造假很久了還在那邊吹
09/21 21:56, 13F

09/21 21:57, , 14F
一樓崩潰就是要推
09/21 21:57, 14F

09/21 21:58, , 15F
中國崩潰了
09/21 21:58, 15F

09/21 21:58, , 16F
強姦之國比隨地大小便之國還糟
09/21 21:58, 16F

09/21 21:59, , 17F
最後還是民主終將戰勝共產的美帝洗腦式英雄主義
09/21 21:59, 17F

09/21 22:00, , 18F
很看好印度欸 希望他們能發展起來
09/21 22:00, 18F

09/21 22:02, , 19F
富士比? 這一定是山寨雜誌
09/21 22:02, 19F

09/21 22:02, , 20F
中國或成最大贏家
09/21 22:02, 20F

09/21 22:03, , 21F
成長是作假呀,美國用衛星評估遠比報出來的數字高...
09/21 22:03, 21F

09/21 22:04, , 22F
印度?? 今天是愚人節嗎
09/21 22:04, 22F

09/21 22:04, , 23F
華人一向地下交易都很熱絡,不報稅的...
09/21 22:04, 23F

09/21 22:05, , 24F
哄堂大笑 拜託一下.. 中國就算真的崩潰完 還是贏印度
09/21 22:05, 24F

09/21 22:06, , 25F
中國GDP作假帳連隔壁賣水煎包的老王也知道
09/21 22:06, 25F

09/21 22:06, , 26F
拿巴西還俄羅斯就算了 有得討論..
09/21 22:06, 26F

09/21 22:06, , 27F
討厭中國是一回事 看不清現實是另一回事
09/21 22:06, 27F

09/21 22:07, , 28F
中國已經嚴打限制都市車輛成長了,但年年創新高...
09/21 22:07, 28F

09/21 22:07, , 29F
作假數字創新高嗎
09/21 22:07, 29F

09/21 22:08, , 30F
又再GDP 要不要連貪污一起算
09/21 22:08, 30F

09/21 22:08, , 31F
台灣GDP都把境外生產加進去當然年年創新高
09/21 22:08, 31F

09/21 22:09, , 32F
未看先猜大妓丸
09/21 22:09, 32F

09/21 22:09, , 33F
你們都相信了,那我也信了
09/21 22:09, 33F

09/21 22:10, , 34F
中國地方官員作出來的都能信了,你還有什麼不能信
09/21 22:10, 34F

09/21 22:11, , 35F
不然野雞雜誌富比士隨便看看就好嚕
09/21 22:11, 35F

09/21 22:14, , 36F
印度不是多元是混亂
09/21 22:14, 36F

09/21 22:16, , 37F
印度越來越值得投資
09/21 22:16, 37F

09/21 22:20, , 38F
印度光文盲率就堪慮
09/21 22:20, 38F

09/21 22:20, , 39F
還有落後基礎建設 低效率的政府部門
09/21 22:20, 39F

09/21 22:21, , 40F
印度貪腐也半斤八兩
09/21 22:21, 40F

09/21 22:22, , 41F
老實說很難 看看印度的環境除非馬哈拉施特拉邦獨立出來
09/21 22:22, 41F

09/21 22:25, , 42F
2016年全球貪腐指數排名 印度跟中國大陸分數相同
09/21 22:25, 42F

09/21 22:41, , 43F
未來? 未來的什麼時候?
09/21 22:41, 43F

09/21 22:41, , 44F
印度就算了 越南可能還比較有機會
09/21 22:41, 44F

09/21 22:47, , 45F
強姦國連電力供應都有問題 取代個鬼
09/21 22:47, 45F

09/21 22:47, , 46F
印度還是算了吧...大概那種最最低階的工作可以吧
09/21 22:47, 46F

09/21 22:48, , 47F
超越很難但是會取代大部分的低階工作..台灣20年前遇到
09/21 22:48, 47F

09/21 22:49, , 48F
製造業外移的力道大陸會慢慢挫勒蛋..
09/21 22:49, 48F

09/21 22:54, , 49F
...
09/21 22:54, 49F

09/21 22:55, , 50F
以後就沒人會再講bric了
09/21 22:55, 50F

09/21 22:57, , 51F
反串?
09/21 22:57, 51F

09/21 23:02, , 52F
誰會信?
09/21 23:02, 52F

09/21 23:05, , 53F
印度有成長潛力,尤其是農村人口大幅移居至城市時,需
09/21 23:05, 53F

09/21 23:06, , 54F
求會大爆發,中國沒有什麼都市化潛力了
09/21 23:06, 54F

09/21 23:21, , 55F
老實說阿三不是我們看不起你,看到來自星星的傻瓜,
09/21 23:21, 55F

09/21 23:21, , 56F
我終於明白
09/21 23:21, 56F

09/21 23:25, , 57F
結果印度4~6月的成長率還輸中國 掉到 5%
09/21 23:25, 57F

09/21 23:29, , 58F
成長率大起大落 根本沒有前途
09/21 23:29, 58F

09/22 01:42, , 59F
光印度的基建,除非你開公司 還幫 造橋 鋪路 修鐵路 搞電廠
09/22 01:42, 59F

09/22 03:04, , 60F
中國那沒有都市化潛力?真以為處處高樓大廈?
09/22 03:04, 60F

09/22 03:05, , 61F
印度教育是問題,但不是首要問題,光中國現今依然大量基
09/22 03:05, 61F

09/22 03:05, , 62F
礎教育缺乏,卻有經濟蓬勃,代表初階的工業發展對教育需
09/22 03:05, 62F

09/22 03:05, , 63F
求不高,當要更上層樓才會需要
09/22 03:05, 63F

09/22 03:58, , 64F
看外資投資流向最明顯,人會說話騙人,錢的流向才是真的,
09/22 03:58, 64F

09/22 03:58, , 65F
外資大舉撤出中國,印度卻是各國投資重點,玻璃別自慰了
09/22 03:58, 65F

09/22 05:03, , 66F
90.8高潮
09/22 05:03, 66F

09/22 05:03, , 67F
不過你講其它國家還有人信,硬督...
09/22 05:03, 67F

09/22 05:16, , 68F
中國的薪資高漲才是主因啦。反正低薪、低技術的產業,中國
09/22 05:16, 68F

09/22 05:16, , 69F
早就不稀罕了。再看看前面某些人分享的真實案例,很多根本
09/22 05:16, 69F

09/22 05:16, , 70F
不是自願撤資的,是被突如其來的新規定給逼走的。
09/22 05:16, 70F

09/22 05:25, , 71F
一堆低能怕中國怕到變成智障了
09/22 05:25, 71F

09/22 07:02, , 72F
水啦
09/22 07:02, 72F

09/22 07:08, , 73F
舔共舔成這樣 看過鏡子嗎?像條狗呢
09/22 07:08, 73F

09/22 07:10, , 74F
中國的GDP都靠印鈔稱,用美金計算的話已經負成長了
09/22 07:10, 74F

09/22 07:24, , 75F
這個其實就是業配文....先帶風向 再揪團去投資
09/22 07:24, 75F

09/22 07:25, , 76F
就開始新一輪的炒作
09/22 07:25, 76F

09/22 09:15, , 77F
先說結論可能性太低,喊中國房市泡沫已經快10年了,誰聽說
09/22 09:15, 77F

09/22 09:15, , 78F
過北上廣深跌了?重慶都要飛天了好嗎?非民主制對於市場管
09/22 09:15, 78F

09/22 09:15, , 79F
控就是強啊。印度真的不可能,整體人民水準,收入,比起對
09/22 09:15, 79F

09/22 09:15, , 80F
岸低太多了好嗎?
09/22 09:15, 80F

09/22 09:23, , 81F
難!
09/22 09:23, 81F

09/22 09:27, , 82F
這地方外派只能男的去耶...
09/22 09:27, 82F

09/22 10:23, , 83F
還不是繼續Kobe
09/22 10:23, 83F

09/22 10:30, , 84F
現在印度就十幾年前的中國啊
09/22 10:30, 84F

09/22 10:35, , 85F
其他國家還有可能,印度跟本阿斗加強版。
09/22 10:35, 85F

09/22 14:01, , 86F
低階外移很正常呀!
09/22 14:01, 86F

09/22 18:47, , 87F
錢的流向才是真的+1 不是怕中國 是支那怕外資全部撤走
09/22 18:47, 87F

09/22 18:47, , 88F
五毛開始出來洗地
09/22 18:47, 88F

09/22 19:32, , 89F
說中國崩潰都30多年了,還沒崩完啊?
09/22 19:32, 89F
文章代碼(AID): #1PmyGcBY (Gossiping)
討論串 (同標題文章)
以下文章回應了本文 (最舊先):
完整討論串 (本文為第 1 之 9 篇):
文章代碼(AID): #1PmyGcBY (Gossiping)