Re: [討論] 定期定額的誤繆

看板Fund作者 (螢火蟲)時間15年前 (2009/08/12 09:45), 編輯推噓50(500275)
留言325則, 15人參與, 最新討論串30/35 (看更多)
來分享一些學術研究對定期定額的看法: 1. Nobody Gains from Dollar Cost Averaging Analytical, Numerical and Empirical Results Dollar Cost Avemging is an investment system that is widely advocated by brokerage firms and mutual funds. In its best known form, an investor seeking to put a lump sum into risky assets is counseled to invest the money over a period of time in equal installments in order to avoid the devastating effect of a marketfall immediately afkr a single, lump-sum investment. Using graphical analysis, historical stock market returns, and Monte Carlo simulations, this article demonstmtes that no such benefit accrues to a Dollar Cost Averaging Strategy. Two alternative strategies, optimal rebalancing and buy and hold achieve better performance in all three analyses. 三種策略比起來,定期定額是最遜色的。 2. Mathematical Illusion: Why Dollar-Cost Averaging Does Not Work by John G. Greenhut, Ph.D. In spite of the weight of evidence provided in academic literature against the strategy of dollar-cost averaging, DCA continues to be practiced by investors and recommended by financial advisors. Beyond its psychological appeal, the popularity of the approach can be said to stem from simple illustrations that show DCA resulting in greater stock holdings across a stock market cycle than is achieved by a one-time, lump-sum investment. Alternatively presented, the average cost per share purchased under DCA is demonstrated, by example, to be less than the average price of stock over its cycle. This paper challenges that illustration. It shows that variations in stock prices should not follow the mathematical pattern assumed in the examples. In fact, the price movement should follow a particular mathematical form that yields the same number of shares purchased, whether by DCA or lump-sum investing. Absent any benefit from stock price volatility in reducing average cost, the performance of DCA rests on the trend in stock prices, with DCA outperforming in downward markets and lump sum outperforming in upward markets. Since the latter case is the norm over time, customary empirical findings in the finance literature of underperformance by DCA are explained. The theory in this paper is confirmed by examining a broad sample of stocks, contrasted over the high-growth trend in the second half of the 1990s against the general market malaise over the following half-decade. In the absence of this trend, DCA and lump sum provide equivalent results. 單筆投入在趨勢向上的市場表現比較好,定期定額則是在趨勢向下的市場表現比較好。 沒有這些趨勢的話,定期定額和單筆投入表現其實沒有差異。 3. Dollar-cost Averaging:An Investigation Dollar-cost Averaging (DCA) is a common and useful systematic investment strategy for mutual fund managers, private investors, financial analysts and retirement planners. The issue of performance effectiveness of DCA is greatly controversial among academics and professionals. As a popularly recommended investment strategy, DCA is recognized as a risk reduction strategy; however, the advantage was claimed as the expense of generating higher returns. The dissertation is to intensively investigate the performances of DCA in light of the literatures comprehensively researched by previous thinkers. Using Monte Carlo simulation, the reviewed outcomes are confirmed by scientifically tests that DCA strategy is superior to reduce risk, but it is inferior to LS strategy in terms of effectiveness to produce returns. Although providing outperformances by investing in less volatile assets, it is more suitable to be applied for more risky investments in comparison with LS. 這是一本研究生的論文,他找出定期定額相關的文獻(27篇),並自己做模擬分析。 結論是定期定額可以降低風險,但是和單筆投入在報酬上比起來是比較差的。 在他回顧的文獻中,有41%認為定期定額不如單筆投入,有22%認為定期定額比單筆投入好 剩下的37%是Mixed opinions on DCA。 因為這些特性,所以作者認為可以對風險高的做定期定額,風險低的就單筆投入。 這三篇我都有PDF,有興趣的可以一起研究。 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Comments:除了強迫儲蓄這個優點,定期定額其實沒啥特別的優點了 在學術研究上的資料其實說得很清楚,資產配置是非常重要的,這一點沒啥可質疑的 但是定期定額這個策略其實並不是很明顯的比其他進場策略還好 之前還看過一篇用S&P500做模擬的,投入總金額100萬 用1981-2000的資料,定期定額策略每週投入1000元(每年大約50週,共20年,投入1000次) 單筆投入則是模擬投資人一拿到閒錢就丟到股市,金額和投入時間用電腦亂數採樣 範圍好像是100美元到10000美元的樣子 這兩種作法最後的差異有多少呢?作者好像跑了幾百次模擬,平均下來定期定額輸了大約3% 這一篇也挺有趣,不過現在暫時找不到,找到再分享 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 140.109.29.88

08/12 09:55, , 1F
大多贊同,定期定額本身絕非「增加報酬」的作法,不過有點
08/12 09:55, 1F

08/12 09:55, , 2F
這裡沒提到的我覺得是心理上的問題,如果對資產配置和長期
08/12 09:55, 2F

08/12 09:56, , 3F
投資信心足夠的人來說,的確有閒錢就投應該效率最好,不過
08/12 09:56, 3F

08/12 09:56, , 4F
畢竟不是每個人都能看著下跌還一直投,我覺得定期定額有心
08/12 09:56, 4F

08/12 09:57, , 5F
理上的效果。另外就是最後一個數據不是很有代表性1981-2000
08/12 09:57, 5F

08/12 09:57, , 6F
美股是超級大多頭,幾乎可以確定有錢就丟一定比較有利。
08/12 09:57, 6F

08/12 10:10, , 7F
心理層面第二篇有提,但有不少研究發現強迫投入才是風險
08/12 10:10, 7F

08/12 10:12, , 8F
如果不斷買入,有資產配置和再平衡,其實不需DCA的枷鎖
08/12 10:12, 8F

08/12 10:13, , 9F
我比較好奇的是,為何學術研究在模擬投資的時候,
08/12 10:13, 9F

08/12 10:13, , 10F
不把人類行為也模擬進去? 例如風險偏好者越低買越多
08/12 10:13, 10F

08/12 10:13, , 11F
我是覺得在股市崩的時候,要把手上所有閒錢投入是有點難。
08/12 10:13, 11F

08/12 10:14, , 12F
引經據典是一定要推的!定期定額還是適合一般不看盤的人
08/12 10:14, 12F

08/12 10:14, , 13F
但是短期漲幅過大就部分贖回。
08/12 10:14, 13F

08/12 10:14, , 14F
但我也贊同,如果真的對配置不夠了解,即使定期定額也是很
08/12 10:14, 14F

08/12 10:15, , 15F
因為我接觸到類似的研究,模擬都蠻笨的,所以我不太相信結果
08/12 10:15, 15F

08/12 10:15, , 16F
危險的,只能說心理的東西很難掌握!
08/12 10:15, 16F

08/12 10:18, , 17F
另外有做學術研究的都知道,取樣範圍(例如投入時間點)
08/12 10:18, 17F

08/12 10:19, , 18F
會決定績效的好壞,是否刻意選擇結果驚艷的時段,也是蠻重要
08/12 10:19, 18F

08/12 10:19, , 19F
的參考依據。
08/12 10:19, 19F

08/12 10:20, , 20F
howshou大你可以看看The Ivy Portfolio這本書
08/12 10:20, 20F

08/12 10:22, , 21F
至於1981-2000那篇的取樣範圍只能說太巧,是2001發表的
08/12 10:22, 21F

08/12 10:41, , 22F
明明就是不同風險策略的問題,某人就是要跳針亂比
08/12 10:41, 22F

08/12 10:56, , 23F
另外,其實對長期資產配置的人來說,定期定額降低風險其實
08/12 10:56, 23F

08/12 10:57, , 24F
比較有效集中在剛開始幾年,之後的效果就會減少,不過我想
08/12 10:57, 24F

08/12 10:58, , 25F
作為踏入這條路的入門而言,一開始幾年不論用定期定額、定
08/12 10:58, 25F

08/12 10:58, , 26F
值投入或是分批投入,也許會降低資金的效率,不過可以當作
08/12 10:58, 26F

08/12 10:59, , 27F
入門階段的作法,這也是為何投資金律的作者要介紹這些方式
08/12 10:59, 27F

08/12 11:37, , 28F
定期定額對我來說的優點是時間到了就買 如果是我自己找
08/12 11:37, 28F

08/12 11:38, , 29F
買點的話 會一直想下一天或下兩天會不會更低 反而耽誤了
08/12 11:38, 29F

08/12 11:40, , 30F
投入資金
08/12 11:40, 30F

08/12 11:42, , 31F
先存錢等個5年大崩再一次買會比定期定額划算你信不信?
08/12 11:42, 31F

08/12 11:51, , 32F
在低點單筆買入當然賺的比定期定額多 無庸置疑
08/12 11:51, 32F

08/12 11:52, , 33F
問題是有幾個人做得到
08/12 11:52, 33F

08/12 11:54, , 34F
想賺錢,你就必須是作得到的那個人啊...
08/12 11:54, 34F

08/12 11:56, , 35F
想著自己"絕對不到"的同時,也扼殺了自己大賺錢的可能性。
08/12 11:56, 35F

08/12 11:57, , 36F
假如說你對自己有點信心又不敢太衝,可以拿個投資金額的10%
08/12 11:57, 36F

08/12 11:58, , 37F
出來試試看定期定額以外的方法。
08/12 11:58, 37F

08/12 12:27, , 38F
那我為何不能先定時定額個5年,等大崩再單筆?
08/12 12:27, 38F

08/12 12:28, , 39F
就是不想去猜何時"大崩"阿~
08/12 12:28, 39F
還有 246 則推文
08/13 11:33, , 286F
當作投資的本,不要拿"總資產"來算...
08/13 11:33, 286F

08/13 11:34, , 287F
所以你都是百萬元以上再操作的囉?
08/13 11:34, 287F

08/13 11:35, , 288F
總資產、投資部位、以及你這次操作的投資倍位都要考慮啊。
08/13 11:35, 288F

08/13 11:35, , 289F
我所謂的單筆出入,也是在自己"投資資金"的範圍內
08/13 11:35, 289F

08/13 11:36, , 290F
如果一個策略因為風險高必須壓低投入部位,就要把這個也考
08/13 11:36, 290F

08/13 11:36, , 291F
慮進去,才能算出真正合理的報酬率。
08/13 11:36, 291F

08/13 11:36, , 292F
問題是你這些資金出入賺的錢真的就比人家定期定額多嗎
08/13 11:36, 292F

08/13 11:37, , 293F
沒有的話.你還敢講說你賺的比較多錢?
08/13 11:37, 293F

08/13 11:38, , 294F
都不站在同一標準..你就能這麼篤定喔
08/13 11:38, 294F

08/13 11:38, , 295F
要投多少錢本金進去,好像是我自己的事吧?
08/13 11:38, 295F

08/13 11:38, , 296F
就算是定期定額,我也只會拿出一半的錢去運作。
08/13 11:38, 296F

08/13 11:39, , 297F
要不要把全財產拿去投資是每個人的判斷問題,我認為過度了
08/13 11:39, 297F

08/13 11:40, , 298F
所以你回答我阿.你這樣一定賺的比我定期定額多嗎?y
08/13 11:40, 298F

08/13 11:40, , 299F
多久以前就一直請教你這問題了..你回答我阿
08/13 11:40, 299F

08/13 11:41, , 300F
你知道有多少人只要拿出不到一般的錢定期定額一樣能
08/13 11:41, 300F

08/13 11:41, , 301F
賺少少的報酬率砸死我們
08/13 11:41, 301F

08/13 11:42, , 302F
拿出不到一半的錢
08/13 11:42, 302F

08/13 11:42, , 303F
你先回答這問題先阿...一直閃避幹嘛呢?
08/13 11:42, 303F

08/13 11:44, , 304F
沒有人願意笑你拉..但你若是閃避問題則會讓人看清你
08/13 11:44, 304F

08/13 11:45, , 305F
你到底知不知道月賺2%是多可怕的高報酬啊...
08/13 11:45, 305F

08/13 11:46, , 306F
我知道高報酬阿.但我們要的是落入口袋真的有多少錢
08/13 11:46, 306F

08/13 11:47, , 307F
從你講多可怕的報酬很有趣耶..當初好像說得很簡單
08/13 11:47, 307F

08/13 11:49, , 308F
本金10萬.月入2%能養活你嗎?.若專心研究沒其他工作
08/13 11:49, 308F

08/13 11:49, , 309F
你跟我講說你本金1億再操作.那我會奉你為圭臬
08/13 11:49, 309F

08/13 11:50, , 310F
你要大家學你月入2%.要大家都是巴菲特等級嗎
08/13 11:50, 310F

08/13 11:51, , 311F
你再繼續模胡教點阿.回答我問題先好嗎?拜託你
08/13 11:51, 311F

08/13 11:52, , 312F
模糊焦點@@
08/13 11:52, 312F

08/13 16:30, , 313F
t大我認為你的操作策略有問題
08/13 16:30, 313F

08/13 16:31, , 314F
你的停損設定10% 停利卻是2%? 又或者根本是隨便停利的
08/13 16:31, 314F

08/13 16:32, , 315F
這種做法在趨勢向上的時候沒問題 要是猜錯趨勢......
08/13 16:32, 315F

08/13 16:42, , 316F
如果你是停損10% 停利150% 那如果標的一直沒到150%就下來
08/13 16:42, 316F

08/13 16:42, , 317F
你要怎麼辦呢?
08/13 16:42, 317F

08/13 18:57, , 318F
一個月賺超過2%就收手和其他策略是不衝突的...
08/13 18:57, 318F

08/13 18:58, , 319F
之前漲很大那段時間跟現在的做法是有差異的。
08/13 18:58, 319F

08/13 18:58, , 320F
那時候是為了把基金賠的錢賺回來,盯盤很辛苦的。
08/13 18:58, 320F

08/13 18:59, , 321F
現在既然已經賺回來了,當然就輕鬆點以月賺2%收手。
08/13 18:59, 321F

08/13 19:01, , 322F
過度交易 vs 和賺飽就閃人,我個人是賺保就閃人反而賺得多
08/13 19:01, 322F

08/13 19:02, , 323F
反正現在錢放我口袋,大盤隨便你崩我也不怕,等機會下個月
08/13 19:02, 323F

08/13 19:02, , 324F
再賺2%就可以了...
08/13 19:02, 324F

08/14 02:47, , 325F
跟巴菲特一樣神的發言又再度出現了
08/14 02:47, 325F
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