Re: [閒聊] Dolphin放棄32bit的版本?

看板Emulator作者RuinAngel (左)時間11年前 (2014/05/24 00:07)推噓13(13推 0噓 10→)

留言23則, 18人參與討論串2/3 (看更多)

既然聊起來了就吃飽閒著大略翻譯一下好了XD 看會不會拋磚引玉到專業人士講解 ※ 引述《choan (八房龍之助)》之銘言： : https://dolphin-emu.org/blog/2014/05/19/obituary-32bit/#cuthere : Ten years ago Dolphin was a very limited program designed to run in only one : environment. It was a 32-bit Windows application that required Direct3D 9 : with no alternatives. A lot of things have changed since then as Dolphin has : expanded its goals. The emulator has become much more robust over time with : support added for 64-bit Windows, Linux, Mac OS X, FreeBSD, and even Android : phones and tablets! 十年前 Dolphin 還是個功能不多的程式，設計給唯一的環境使用─32 位元的 Windows 系統和D3D 9。十年來很多事情都改變了，Dolphin 的目標也變得更廣了，功能性上也在加入了支援 64 位元 Windows、Linux、OS X、FreeBSD 甚至 Android 手機和平板後更強大了！註：32 位元以下簡稱 x86、64 位元簡稱 x64 : Sometimes though, changes must be made. Some choices require months of : preparation, discussion, examination, while others are inevitable. : Maintaining features is a balance between cost and reward. The cost being : development time, maintenance, debugging, bandwidth, money and more, with the : reward being a better, cleaner experience for our users. The reward was : obvious for 4.0. 有的時候就是該下決定，Z>B，妳懂的。 : Well over one third of our Windows downloads for Dolphin 4.0 were the 32-bit : variant; a huge share of our userbase. Despite that, we still find ourselves : at a crossroads just a few months later. 雖然超過 1/3 的 Dolphin 4.0 版下載量都是 x86 版本，面對這麼大的用戶群我們還是得做決定。 : Why consider dropping 32-bit builds? 為什麼是不再更新 x86 版本？ : The Dolphin Emulator team is constantly searching for ways to improve the : development pipeline. From the insane to the mundane, hundreds of ideas will : come and go every year as for how to make things better. But the past few : months have seen a reoccurring theme: 32-bit builds break, and many of the : developers question its worth. x86 版本總是有問題，很多開發者質疑她的存在價值。 : Windows XP has been unsupported for months 我們已經停止支援 XP 好幾個月了 : Dolphin has already dropped Windows XP support. With a little under 10% of : our users still using the OS, Windows XP was a significant share of our : users, but at the same time the team made a decision not to let any : particular OS hold us back. The only reason for dropping XP support is : because the latest Microsoft Visual Studio Compiler doesn't support Windows : XP. The aging operating system's days were numbered simply by that, and once : the move was made to C++11, there was no going back. The unintended side : effect to that drop is that Dolphin no longer supported any operating systems : that were primarily 32-bit. Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 are all designed : for 64-bit. 目前約有近 10% 的使用者是使用 XP，但我們不願意被單一作業系統拖住腳步。決定性的關鍵是 XP 不支援最新的 Microsoft Visual Studio Compiler。我們換到 C++11 開發之後就回不去惹~ 有個副作用是專為 x86 設計的系統都不支援了，不過 Vista, 7, 8 都是 x64 : Dedicated 32-bit processors are very outdated and cannot run Dolphin at : playable speeds x86 CPU 都是古董了，沒一個能打的，沒辦法把 Dolphin 跑出能玩的速度 : On the hardware side of things, x86_32 processors died a long time ago. It's : only thanks to Microsoft selling 32-bit versions of their operating system : that any sizable number of Dolphin users need 32-bit builds at all! Since x86 CPU 早就 GG 溜，要不是微軟一直賣 x86 版本的作業系統，我們早就不用支援 x86 了！(換句話說很多使用者是用 x64 cpu跑 x86 系統玩 Dolphin) : 2003 when x86_64 processors debuted, the newer architecture has proven itself : far superior to the original specs it was based off of. Any computer that : needs 32-bit due to memory constraints or processor limitations simply won't : run Dolphin at usable speeds, so what use is there in supporting it? Any 2003 年亮相的 x64 cpu 的架構好太多了，還在用 x86 cpu 的系統跑 Dolphin 速度根本呵呵，何必支援？懂？ : computer that can run Dolphin is already using a 64-bit processor. : Dolphin's 32-bit builds are not indicative of the Dolphin experience : Most programs can have 32-bit builds and 64-bit builds without trouble or : more commonly host only 32-bit builds and let 64-bit users use it as well. : For those programs, the benefits of 64-bit don't matter much at all, and the : end users need not worry about any of it! : This is not true with Dolphin, where some games still do not run full speed 大部分的程式跑 x86 或是 x64 刻意去支援使用者是感覺不出來差異的但在 Dolphin 上原生 x64 的優勢差別非常明顯，特別是有些遊戲還無法全速進行的狀態這差別更重要。 : on any existing configuration. Dolphin sees very important and observable : benefits in its 64-bit builds! With a 64-bit address space, Dolphin can : reserve a 4GB area that maps to GCN/Wii memory boosts performance greatly : and, more importantly, 64-bit has twice as many registers. This brings the : emulator much closer to the number of registers to that of the PPC processor. : Plus, since 64-bit is large enough to fit the DSP's 40-bit registers, it can : run DSP JIT (Just In Time) recompiler for a nice speedup. 32-bit has to fall : back on the CPU-intensive interpreter functions for most DSP instructions. In : addition to all of that, compilers even generate better code thanks to the : ability to do 64-bit memory operations without needing special alignment. : In preparation for this announcement, we did thorough performance testing to : compare 32-bit builds and 64-bit builds with no idea how they would actually : turn out. While we knew that 32-bit was a little slower, the results were : shocking. 用 x64 的定址空間，Dolphin 可以用 4GB 的空間去 map GCN/Wii memory，大幅提升表現，同時 x64 有 x86 兩倍的 register，更接近 PPC processor 的 register 數量... (都是技術性的東西翻來翻去名詞大概都會用原文，乾脆略過XD) : Maintenance : One of the more annoying aspects of 32-bit Windows support is that the : operating system lacks critical features for development. This means that : menial changes that work on other other platforms break it again and again. : For Dolphin's Just In Time Compiler (JIT), that means making special code for : 32-bit builds all the time. This is not only is frustrating, but also stunts : development as it slows down developers and prevents them from undertaking : projects in the first place! x86 系統支援起來最麻煩的是它缺少一些重要的開發功能，所以一些別的平台沒有的問題會在 x86 系統上層出不窮。像 Dolphin 的 JIT 就要一直為 x86 版本寫專屬的 code，既煩人又拖慢開發進度，甚至把一些開發者嚇走！ : Worse yet, there is a severe lack of testing on the 32-bit builds. For 100 : revisions, there were a total of zero issue reports despite the fact that : 32-bit builds were totally nonfunctional! This makes it harder for developers : to figure out what broke the builds, and forces them to go back into old : projects that were already considered complete. 更悲劇的是，x86 版本的測試超少，改版了一百次居然零個問題回報，而且這版本根本完全不能用都沒人回報！ : There is also the case of compiling the builds themselves. Windows requires : twice as many buildbots thanks to requiring 32-bit support, taking twice the : space and using twice the processing power of our servers. To put it simply, : it has become very difficult to maintain 32-bit builds. This even causes : confusion among many users; according to advanced statistics gathered from : the downloads page, more than 60 percent of the 32-bit downloads are done by : 64-bit OSes. The majority of 32-bit users are 64-bit users needlessly using : an inferior build! x86 版本佔用很多資源維護，造成伺服器和使用者的困擾。最新的數據顯示，超過六成的 x86 版本是由使用 x64 系統的使用者下載的，所以大部分使用者根本就下載了效能比較差的版本。 : In Conclusion : 32-bit support is one of Dolphin's oldest features. But just like D3D9 before : it... times change. 32-bit has become a weight around all of our necks, : slowing down users and developers alike. With the 32-bit userbase shrinking : quickly, the builds becoming harder and harder to maintain and the benefits : dwindling, the developers have decided to discontinue the 32-bit Windows : buildbot, and cut away 32-bit support entirely. 32-bit ARM devices are not 總之 Z>B，我們要跟 x86 Windows 說掰掰了，x86 ARM 平台則會繼續維護。 : affected by this decision and will continue to be supported. For loyal users : that are stuck on 32-bit Windows machines, the current builds are not going : anywhere and will be archived permanently, and Linux is a free 64-bit : operating system with full Dolphin support. 至於還在用 x86 Windows 的朋友，Linux x64 免費唷，好 Linux 不換嗎？ : For any console, emulation progresses in stages. First is initial support, : grasping at straws fighting for even basic functionality. Then comes playable : games. As time progresses, accuracy and compatibility become the goal. And : finally, it reaches enhanced emulation, where emulation is not only accurate, : but improved upon through advanced features like netplay and HD graphics. In : all other consoles that have been emulated, each of these stages was : fulfilled by a different emulator. But for the GameCube and Wii? Dolphin has : fulfilled them all. It is the freedom to change and grow that has allowed : Dolphin to continue to evolve and grow in this manner. Shedding hindrances, : cleaning code, attracting new talent; Dolphin excels at these things, : allowing it to grow and evolve in ways no emulator before has ever achieved. : Removing 32-bit support is just one more step on this journey. Dolphin 好棒棒，請大家繼續支持捨棄 x86 支援式進步必要之惡~ -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 220.135.205.149 ※ 文章網址: http://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Emulator/M.1400861230.A.7DC.html

推

jeff0811

05/24 00:20, , 1^F

05/24 00:20, 1^F

我一開始也是想說是指微軟後來看了下文就不確定是指微軟還是Dolphin了...

推

silver00

05/24 01:39, , 2^F

05/24 01:39, 2^F

→

eva19452002

05/24 05:13, , 3^F