[心得] 錯誤的羅馬七章解經

看板Christianity作者 (DF-31)時間7年前 (2016/08/27 10:47), 7年前編輯推噓21(210318)
留言339則, 8人參與, 最新討論串1/1
錯誤的羅馬七章解經 碰見一個連私塾都沒上過的【張允】,連怎麼砍人都不會。只好以身作則,教想砍人的人 怎麼砍人。 1- 錯誤的論述 簡單講 保羅意思說 女人嫁了人 就多了【婦道】要守 (丈夫的律法 = 作妻子該守的律 法) 2- 錯誤之處 英文-希臘文-希伯來文根本沒有中國傳統的【婦道】的觀念。所以,spx把羅馬7章以【婦 道】的觀念犯下了“用中國人的傳統觀念去理解保羅教導的錯誤” 3- 正確的解釋 spx引用的《生命讀經》的段落: ================================================= 壹 兩個丈夫 我們若要領會我們如何脫離了律法,就必須認識羅馬七章的兩個丈夫。 羅馬五章有兩個人,兩種行為,兩樣結果,帶著四件作王的事物。 七章一至六節有兩個丈夫,七章七至二十五節有三個律。 羅馬七章的兩個丈夫是誰? 當我還是年輕的基督徒時,很渴慕認識聖經。我發覺要知道羅馬七章的頭一個丈夫是誰, 特別困難。我設法收集最好的解經書,卻仍然無法斷定羅馬七章的頭一個丈夫是誰。 到底是律法還是肉體?我請問那些有聖經知識的人,但他們沒有一人清楚這點。 有些人說頭一個丈夫是律法,而其他人說是肉體。 ================================================= 完全符合美國標準釋經工具書《馬太亨利解經》的相應段落: ================================================= I. Our first marriage was to the law, which, according to the law of marriage, was to continue only during the life of the law. The law of marriage is binding till the death of one of the parties, no matter which, and no longer. The death of either discharges both. For this he appeals to themselves, as persons knowing the law (Rom_7:1): I speak to those that know the law. It is a great advantage to discourse with those that have knowledge, for such can more readily understand and apprehend a truth. Many of the Christians at Rome were such as had been Jews, and so were well acquainted with the law. One has some hold of knowing people. The law hath power over a man as long as he liveth; in particular, the law of marriage hath power; or, in general, every law is so limited - the laws of nations, of relations, of families, etc. 1. The obligation of laws extends no further; by death the servant who, while he lived, was under the yoke, is freed from his master, Job_3:19. 2. The condemnation of laws extends no further; death is the finishing of the law. Actio moritur cum persona - The action expires with the person. The severest laws could but kill the body, and after that there is no more that they can do. Thus while we were alive to the law we were under the power of it - while we were in our Old Testament state, before the gospel came into the world, and before it came with power into our hearts. Such is the law of marriage (Rom_7:2), the woman is bound to her husband during life, so bound to him that she cannot marry another; if she do, she shall be reckoned an adulteress, Rom_7:3. It will make her an adulteress, not only to be defiled by, but to be married to, another man; for that is so much the worse, upon this account, that it abuses an ordinance of God, by making it to patronise the uncleanness. Thus were we married to the law (Rom_7:5): When we were in the flesh, that is, in a carnal state, under the reigning power of sin and corruption - in the flesh as in our element - then the motions of sins which were by the law did work in our members, we were carried down the stream of sin, and the law was but as an imperfect dam, which made the stream to swell the higher, and rage the more. Our desire was towards sin, as that of the wife towards her husband, and sin ruled over us. We embraced it, loved it, devoted all to it, conversed daily with it, made it our care to please it. We were under a law of sin and death, as the wife under the law of marriage; and the product of this marriage was fruit brought forth unto death, that is, actual transgressions were produced by the original corruption, such as deserve death. Lust, having conceived by the law (which is the strength of sin, 1Co_15:56), bringeth forth sin, and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death, Jam_1:15. This is the posterity that springs from this marriage to sin and the law. This comes of the motions of sin working in our members. And this continues during life, while the law is alive to us, and we are alive to the law. II. Our second marriage is to Christ: and how comes this about? Why, 1. We are freed, by death, from our obligation to the law as a covenant, as the wife is from her obligation to her husband, Rom_7:3. This resemblance is not very close, nor needed it to be. You are become dead to the law, Rom_7:4. He does not say, “The law is dead” (some think because he would avoid giving offence to those who were yet zealous for the law), but, which comes all to one, You are dead to the law. As the crucifying of the world to us, and of us to the world, amounts to one and the same thing, so doth the law ; our obligation to it as a husband is cassated and made void. And then he speaks of the law being dead as far as it was a law of bondage to us: That being dead wherein we were held; not the law itself, but its obligation to punishment and its provocation to sin. It is dead, it has lost its power; and this (Rom_7:4) by the body of Christ, that is, by the sufferings of Christ in his body, by his crucified body, which abrogated the law, answered the demands of it, made satisfaction for our violation of it, purchased for us a covenant of grace, in which righteousness and strength are laid up for us, such as were not, nor could be, by the law. We are dead to the law by our union with the mystical body of Christ. By being incorporated into Christ in our baptism professedly, in our believing powerfully and effectually, we are dead to the law, have no more to do with it than the dead servant, that is free from his master, hath to do with his master's yoke. 2. We are married to Christ. The day of our believing is the day of our espousals to the Lord Jesus. We enter upon a life of dependence on him and duty to him: Married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, a periphrasis of Christ and very pertinent here; for as our dying to sin and the law is in conformity to the death of Christ, and the crucifying of his body, so our devotedness to Christ in newness of life is in conformity to the resurrection of Christ. We are married to the raised exalted Jesus, a very honourable marriage. Compare 2Co_11:2; Eph_5:29. Now we are thus married to Christ, (1.) That we should bring forth fruit unto God, Rom_7:4. One end of marriage is fruitfulness: God instituted the ordinance that he might seek a godly seed, Mal_2:15. The wife is compared to the fruitful vine, and children are called the fruit of the womb. Now the great end of our marriage to Christ is our fruitfulness in love, and grace, and every good work. This is fruit unto God, pleasing to God, according to his will, aiming at his glory. As our old marriage to sin produced fruit unto death, so our second marriage to Christ produces fruit unto God, fruits of righteousness. Good works are the children of the new nature, the products of our union with Christ, as the fruitfulness of the vine is the product of its union with the root. Whatever our professions and pretensions may be, there is no fruit brought forth to God till we are married to Christ; it is in Christ Jesus that we are created unto good works, Eph_2:10. The only fruit which turns to a good account is that which is brought forth in Christ. This distinguishes the good works of believers from the good works of hypocrites and self-justifiers that they are brought forth in marriage, done in union with Christ, in the name of the Lord Jesus, Col_3:17. This is, without controversy, one of the great mysteries of godliness. (2.) That we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter, Rom_7:6. Being married to a new husband, we must change our way. Still we must serve, but it is a service that is perfect freedom, whereas the service of sin was a perfect drudgery: we must now serve in newness of spirit, by new spiritual rules, from new spiritual principles, in spirit and in truth, Joh_4:24. There must be a renovation of our spirits wrought by the spirit of God, and in that we must serve. Not in the oldness of the letter; that is, we must not rest in mere external services, as the carnal Jews did, who gloried in their adherence to the letter of the law, and minded not the spiritual part of worship. The letter is said to kill with its bondage and terror, but we are delivered from that yoke that we may serve God without fear, in holiness and righteousness, Luk_1:74, Luk_1:75. We are under the dispensation of the Spirit, and therefore must be spiritual, and serve in the spirit. Compare with this 2Co_3:3, 2Co_3:6, etc. It becomes us to worship within the veil, and no longer in the outward court. =================================================(估計spx看不懂!哈哈!) 4- 結論 由此可見,《生命讀經》的教訓完全符合基督教正統的教訓;反而,spx因為自己不讀書 ,只靠自己的想像力去詮釋聖經,進而公開渲染地方召會的所謂‘錯誤’,扭曲《生命讀 經》的教導。這種行為是非常卑鄙齷齪的! 當然,最後還是要感謝spx在此做了一個非常好的示範。希望同志們引以為戒為佳。 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 180.206.7.159 ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Christianity/M.1472266026.A.738.html ※ 編輯: df31 (180.206.7.159), 08/27/2016 12:09:27

08/27 21:10, , 1F
推推推
08/27 21:10, 1F

08/27 21:11, , 2F
生命讀經超符合希臘文的原意
08/27 21:11, 2F

08/27 21:13, , 3F
1spx敢放炮,不敢回嗎?
08/27 21:13, 3F

08/27 21:21, , 4F
蛤?
08/27 21:21, 4F

08/27 21:22, , 5F
=.= 當然知道不是在講婦道 婦道只是拿來舉例的例子
08/27 21:22, 5F

08/27 21:29, , 6F
就像每種職業 都有各職業的道德要守
08/27 21:29, 6F

08/27 21:29, , 7F
軍人是保家衛國 醫生護士是救人 警察是打擊犯罪
08/27 21:29, 7F

08/27 21:31, , 8F
職業的本份道德 就如同 丈夫的律法
08/27 21:31, 8F

08/27 21:32, , 9F
你當和尚就敲一天的鐘 在那位子上 還要盡義務
08/27 21:32, 9F

08/27 21:34, , 10F
你那天不幹了 就自然脫離了那些律法(職業道德和義務)
08/27 21:34, 10F

08/27 21:36, , 11F
1又在不知所云了。。。。
08/27 21:36, 11F

08/27 21:36, , 12F
保羅就解釋律法跟罪人的關係
08/27 21:36, 12F

08/27 21:37, , 13F
1現在,spx【突然】又讀懂了生命讀經在講什麼了神跡啊!
08/27 21:37, 13F

08/27 21:37, , 14F
如同嫁了人的婦女
08/27 21:37, 14F

08/27 21:38, , 15F
生命讀經 =.= 是廢書 少讀為妙
08/27 21:38, 15F

08/27 21:44, , 16F
人在律法底下生活 就有該盡該守的該賠 一但死了就脫離
08/27 21:44, 16F

08/27 21:45, , 17F
如同婦人一但嫁了人 就要守婦道 丈夫的律法(該盡的義務)
08/27 21:45, 17F

08/27 21:46, , 18F
就不能再跟別人出去約會 找小王 那就是淫婦了
08/27 21:46, 18F

08/27 21:47, , 19F
除非等你老公掛了 婆家要你改嫁 你才能再找
08/27 21:47, 19F

08/27 21:48, , 20F
形容 律法跟罪人的關係
08/27 21:48, 20F

08/27 21:52, , 21F
主耶穌為我們清償了 我們欠律法的債 除去罪案
08/27 21:52, 21F

08/27 21:53, , 22F
沒有罪的人 義人 自然就不在律法控制之下 (拿你沒辦法)
08/27 21:53, 22F

08/27 21:54, , 23F
因為你沒罪 就不能沒事抓你來受罰 處死你 死就不臨到你
08/27 21:54, 23F

08/27 21:54, , 24F
不死了 那就是生 永生
08/27 21:54, 24F

08/27 21:55, , 25F
死在你身上沒有權柄
08/27 21:55, 25F

08/27 21:57, , 26F
那你就勝過這世界的王 掌死權的撒旦 勝了王 你就是王
08/27 21:57, 26F

08/27 21:57, , 27F
你就是得勝 與基督一同得勝
08/27 21:57, 27F

08/27 21:59, , 28F
並且與基督做兄弟 從世界的奴僕 成為神兒女
08/27 21:59, 28F

08/27 22:00, , 29F
信的時候清償罪債,但之後只要犯一點點罪仍然GG。
08/27 22:00, 29F

08/27 22:07, , 30F
no 我們換了套律法 新約 規矩改變
08/27 22:07, 30F

08/27 22:08, , 31F
不再要求外在行為 而是要求內在 去行出愛就能被算為守法
08/27 22:08, 31F

08/27 22:10, , 32F
跟你之前的說法不一欸?髮夾彎?
08/27 22:10, 32F

08/27 22:11, , 33F
你沒悔改 改變 結出屬靈的結果子 才是GG
08/27 22:11, 33F

08/27 22:11, , 34F
算了,沒關係。
08/27 22:11, 34F

08/27 22:11, , 35F
你以為行出愛你以為很簡單嗎?
08/27 22:11, 35F

08/27 22:12, , 36F
有一刻沒行出愛仍然GG。
08/27 22:12, 36F

08/27 22:12, , 37F
=.= 是你們帶著偏見 我講的始終如一
08/27 22:12, 37F

08/27 22:13, , 38F
你敢保證每個人得救後可能都不會犯罪了?
08/27 22:13, 38F

08/27 22:14, , 39F
你敢保證你結的果子上帝會100%喜悅?
08/27 22:14, 39F
還有 260 則推文
08/28 09:09, , 300F
而開闢 這條捷徑的 就是主耶穌基督 透過立約而完成
08/28 09:09, 300F

08/28 09:10, , 301F
1亞伯拉罕沒律法?spx沒好好讀羅馬書。。。
08/28 09:10, 301F

08/28 09:10, , 302F
因信稱義 本身就是增設的法律 但是神先應許 也從應許來
08/28 09:10, 302F

08/28 09:12, , 303F
=.= 律法 從亞當吃下知善惡樹果子 有智慧後 就有了
08/28 09:12, 303F

08/28 09:13, , 304F
所以掌死權撒旦 才能靠律法 死藉由律法一下子作王
08/28 09:13, 304F

08/28 09:13, , 305F
是嗎,從亞當時候就有律法?th也這樣覺得?
08/28 09:13, 305F

08/28 09:14, , 306F
成文 具體化的律法 到摩西十誡才有具體成文化的律法
08/28 09:14, 306F

08/28 09:15, , 307F
而舊約律法 只是顯出罪 叫人認識罪 知罪的功能
08/28 09:15, 307F

08/28 09:16, , 308F
如同國家法律 帶來刑罰 守了 只能因此存活 (不能稱義)
08/28 09:16, 308F

08/28 09:17, , 309F
要等到將來真正解決罪的問題 直到基督挽回祭除去罪
08/28 09:17, 309F

08/28 09:18, , 310F
而這個救恩的預備 就從亞伯拉罕就開始準備起
08/28 09:18, 310F

08/28 09:19, , 311F
所以 在創世紀 神一開始 要揀選亞伯拉罕離開本族本地時
08/28 09:19, 311F

08/28 09:19, , 312F
1spx又在扯了,根本沒讀羅馬書。
08/28 09:19, 312F

08/28 09:20, , 313F
就直接跟他目的 亞伯拉罕將要祝福萬國的人 因他得福
08/28 09:20, 313F

08/28 09:23, , 314F
主耶穌基督 就是來兌現這個應許
08/28 09:23, 314F

08/28 09:23, , 315F
祝福全世界的人 都能像亞伯拉罕像他一樣 因信而被稱義
08/28 09:23, 315F

08/28 09:25, , 316F
而信基督的人 就如同亞伯拉罕的信一樣 被祝福算為義
08/28 09:25, 316F

08/28 09:26, , 317F
這個應許 是神承諾亞伯拉罕 不能被舊約律法撼動或影響
08/28 09:26, 317F

08/28 09:27, , 318F
而這個應許 兌現方式就是透過跟世人立約 所以新約也是法
08/28 09:27, 318F

08/28 09:29, , 319F
我們立約時 就有承諾 要認罪悔改 效法基督 順從神
08/28 09:29, 319F

08/28 09:30, , 320F
如同亞伯拉罕聽從神一樣 將自己擺上
08/28 09:30, 320F

08/28 09:32, , 321F
沒改變 活出神引導的新生命 就是背棄你當初受洗悔改承諾
08/28 09:32, 321F

08/28 09:33, , 322F
這新約 對你就沒效用了 沒(改變)結果子 就砍下燒了
08/28 09:33, 322F

08/28 09:34, , 323F
雅各:沒相稱的行為 信就是死的
08/28 09:34, 323F

08/28 09:35, , 324F
保羅: 信 望 愛 愛是最大的 沒愛什麼都不是
08/28 09:35, 324F

08/28 09:54, , 325F
其實spxx這些講法是蠻像典型的重洗派的講法,後來發展比
08/28 09:54, 325F

08/28 09:55, , 326F
較成熟的阿民念/衛斯理有許多神學背景,spxx就跟後者有
08/28 09:55, 326F

08/28 09:55, , 327F
些不同。
08/28 09:55, 327F

08/28 09:58, , 328F
1新約被spx廢除了?神啊!
08/28 09:58, 328F

08/28 10:05, , 329F
df就是帶動大家中文理解力差的創始者...
08/28 10:05, 329F

08/28 12:19, , 330F
請問春xx,用愛心的行善換取救恩是因行為稱義嗎?
08/28 12:19, 330F

08/28 12:39, , 331F
換取救恩是最違法聖經的
08/28 12:39, 331F

08/28 12:39, , 332F
也褻瀆了神的愛
08/28 12:39, 332F

08/28 15:48, , 333F
春xx就是講到最後變成不敢說自己得救
08/28 15:48, 333F

08/28 21:39, , 334F
因為沒改變
08/28 21:39, 334F

08/28 23:31, , 335F
春天大你太謙虛了 你的改變是你沒看見的 主保守你到永遠
08/28 23:31, 335F

08/28 23:32, , 336F
二檔,你還要害他阿!真陰!
08/28 23:32, 336F

08/28 23:32, , 337F
從你回到聚會所跟弟兄姊妹建造 就是很大的改變
08/28 23:32, 337F

08/28 23:33, , 338F
我認識春天大 也見過面 d大還是多為他禱告吧
08/28 23:33, 338F

08/28 23:34, , 339F
至於對於解經方式的不同 不是靠互嗆可以解決的(攤)
08/28 23:34, 339F
文章代碼(AID): #1NmFygSu (Christianity)