[情報] David Kim 回覆玩家的平衡性討論

看板StarCraft作者 (有推有上)時間10年前 (2014/02/06 10:29), 編輯推噓23(44推 21噓 43→)
留言108則, 49人參與, 最新討論串1/1
(下面有再加一段) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442782 TL上面看到的，討論的內容頗多， 我開始先翻一點，剩下的看有沒有高手幫我繼續。 ----------- DeathBall: Q:Why is Starcraft 2 so much more deathball-y than Brood War? Have you thought about changing SC2 to allow for battles that last longer and let players more easily recover from setbacks? 為什麼SC2比SC1-BR更加地deathball? (應該是指兵整陀整陀地a) 你有沒有想過把改得SC2有比較多長會戰？而且會戰完的恢復也改得容易些。 A:We believe armies as a whole are easier to move around and control because of the better pathing and unlimited unit selection. 我們認為把兵力集合可以讓移動和控兵更方便， 因為它的路徑會更智能而且可以選無限多單位。 (讓我想起BR的Goliath和坦克互卡，以前真的會因為互卡到輸砸鍵盤) As far as deathball goes, we believe having to micro armies and their positioning correctly to win major battles is a good thing. We don't like seeing games where two players both just sit back and mass up to their composition before engaging. This is why we're currently looking into the EU late game PvZ issue. 在目前的deathball中，我們認為玩家得微操和選位置是好事。 我們不希望玩家一直龜在家，等兩百a一波。 對了，我們最近正在觀察歐洲的PvZ中的上述情形。 (明明200人可以整陀圈才是造成龜家等aoe的主因...) We feel like we've done a lot in this area in HotS, especially compared to the end of Wings. If you recall towards the end of Wings, especially in PvT, both sides often just defended and macroed up for 1 final battle. We don't think we're completely there yet and will continue working towards a more action packed game where there's a lot of action leading into army vs. army battles sometimes. The end goal in this area in our opinion is not to get rid of mass army vs. mass army scenarios, but more so to have a lot of action, a lot of harassment opportunities, and have each game feeling different. 我們覺得我們已經在HOTS改進這個問題很多了，尤其是和WOL後期相比的話。 你還記得嗎？在WOL最後面的PvT是怎麼打的。兩邊都在龜家拚營運，最後衝一波。 我們覺得目前的調整還不夠，我們還會繼續朝數次小規模會戰的方向調整。 最後它仍然會有大軍會戰的場景，但是會有更多的各種搞，更多的騷擾機會， 而且會讓人覺得每一場比賽都很不一樣。 -------------------------------- 1.偷看的，不能翻太多，先翻deathball就好。 2.明天退役，潮~~~~爽der -------------------------------- (好像還有時間，再翻一點) (這一段也太x了吧！下面要罵請自便，不要踩龜就好) Q: Why are the developers so resistant towards the idea of changing Warp Gate and Forcefield? These two specific items have been criticized since the game's beginning as one of the chief reasons Protoss feels more death-bally than the other races, (along with the collosus) and yet there's never been any interest on the developer's part to even have a discussion about them. 為什麼你們開發人員這麼排斥改躍傳和力場？ 這兩個東西讓P看起來更像deathball(對了，還有巨像也是！)， 這個從一開始就一直有人在批評了。 不過我目前還沒有看到任何開發者的聲音，甚至連討論都還沒開始。 Why so resistant? What is so special about Warp Gate and Forcefield that makes them immune in balance talks? 你們在堅持什麼？為什麼躍傳和力場可以不用被討論平衡性？ A: We feel Warp Gates are very race defining for Protoss. It's a completely different way to produce units. Because we want every race to feel unique and asymmetric, we like the design of Warp Gates. 我們覺得躍傳還頗符合神族的設定(俗稱「這不是很酷嗎^^」) 它讓造兵的方式變得很不同。因為我們希望讓每一族的造兵都不一樣， 而且非對稱(也就是優勢期不同)，所以我們喜歡躍傳的設計。 Warp Gates were problematic in the past when 1 base or 2 base all ins were too common. We've addressed this a lot in past years. 躍傳在以前有問題。那個時候單礦或雙礦多bg很流行， 不過這個我們去年已經修掉了。 We've talked about our stance on Force Fields in the past, and it still remains unchanged. We feel like we get a lot of feedback from forums saying there's no micro anyone can do against Force Fields. However, we just don't see this. For example, why do Zerglings or roaches try to bait out Force Fields if micro against them is not possible? Terran players picking off units on one side of Force Fields and dropping them on the more favorable side is another good example. 其實我們已經申明過我們對於力場的看法，而且我們到目前還沒有改變。 你們以前不是常說：「力場根本不可能用微操克服？」 其實我們覺得事實不是如此。 例如說小狗和蟑螂不是會騙力場？你怎麼說它不能微操？ 還有喔！人類也會用運輸機救人，然後丟到另一邊啊！ We believe Force Fields are a very unique ability that sometimes feel there was nothing you could do, but that is okay because there are varying degrees of successes and failures. That is just StarCraft: If DTs come in when I have no detectors I'm dead, but that doesn't mean there was nothing I could have done. 我們覺得力場很特別，所以有時候你會覺得它根本就無解， 但我們覺得這樣很ok，這遊戲本來就有很多贏法和輸法。 這就是星海！如果隱刀到你家時你還沒有防隱的當然會輸， 但這不代表你玩的種族無法對抗隱刀。 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 120.106.190.29
噓
02/06 10:32, , 1F
還有112天怒噓
02/06 10:32, 1F
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02/06 10:32, , 2F
我看成112怒噓 :(
02/06 10:32, 2F
噓
02/06 10:33, , 3F
各種搞的意思是給P搞嗎
02/06 10:33, 3F
※ 編輯: killer9619 來自: 120.106.190.29 (02/06 10:34)
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02/06 10:33, , 4F
只有某族 可以各種搞各種騷擾吧 腦袋不知道裝什麼
02/06 10:33, 4F
推
02/06 10:34, , 5F
這種文記得貼一下原地址阿
02/06 10:34, 5F
拍謝，太趕忘了 ※ 編輯: killer9619 來自: 120.106.190.29 (02/06 10:35)
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02/06 10:36, , 6F
capssan怎麼還那麼久啊?感覺你很久以前就進去了啊
02/06 10:36, 6F
噓
02/06 10:37, , 7F
未看先猜又是謝謝指教再看看
02/06 10:37, 7F
推
02/06 10:37, , 8F
七月底才進去的..
02/06 10:37, 8F
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02/06 10:38, , 9F
想要很多次小型駁火 先把大光炮削弱吧。
02/06 10:38, 9F
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02/06 10:46, , 10F
可能因為加上之前水桶的時間 所以感覺很久沒看到cap了
02/06 10:46, 10F
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02/06 10:48, , 11F
跪求 Terren Deathball 攻略
02/06 10:48, 11F
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02/06 10:48, , 12F
加油啊 再不到四個月就退了 出來大家一起戰imba
02/06 10:48, 12F
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02/06 10:49, , 13F
抱歉~ 現在sc2只剩pz二個種族 ^_<
02/06 10:49, 13F
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02/06 10:51, , 14F
拜託連內戰都能戰imba 就算剩一個族也能戰
02/06 10:51, 14F
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02/06 10:52, , 15F
跪求泰倫龜200人口桶的死人攻略
02/06 10:52, 15F
※ 編輯: killer9619 來自: 120.106.190.29 (02/06 10:59)
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02/06 11:05, , 16F
絲毫沒提nerf P 但是城市化轉海渡鴨大和一直被提到
02/06 11:05, 16F
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02/06 11:06, , 17F
樓上教你 先掃描抓OB 鬼子隱形上前狙擊聖堂和EMP大部隊
02/06 11:06, 17F
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02/06 11:06, , 18F
然後維京集火巨象 大部隊散開成弧形 打針甩槍不能停
02/06 11:06, 18F
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02/06 11:07, , 19F
記得兵營還要同時按 不然兵會接不上 這樣就能桶死P了
02/06 11:07, 19F
噓
02/06 11:07, , 20F
結論還是PIMBA
02/06 11:07, 20F
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02/06 11:08, , 21F
樓上所說的APM大概400
02/06 11:08, 21F
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02/06 11:09, , 22F
應該要1000
02/06 11:09, 22F
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02/06 11:09, , 23F
然後你的手就報廢了
02/06 11:09, 23F
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02/06 11:11, , 24F
P加油 IMBA到我退伍吧鳩咪
02/06 11:11, 24F
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02/06 11:13, , 25F
學成之後也要換麒麟臂了...
02/06 11:13, 25F
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02/06 11:14, , 26F
改裝機械鎧
02/06 11:14, 26F
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02/06 11:14, , 27F
成為鋼之星海術師
02/06 11:14, 27F
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02/06 11:16, , 28F
機械鎧太冷會無法行動的
02/06 11:16, 28F
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02/06 11:19, , 29F
我覺得到目前為止他都沒有納入微操難度的討論...
02/06 11:19, 29F
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02/06 11:21, , 30F
當然所有的招都有解。但是apm本身就是一個有限的資源
02/06 11:21, 30F
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02/06 11:22, , 31F
如果一邊的會戰是A地板後放招式，另一邊要各種拉陣放招
02/06 11:22, 31F
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02/06 11:22, , 32F
每招都有解啊 只是為甚麼P可以一鍵防守T要極限操作
02/06 11:22, 32F
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02/06 11:22, , 33F
每次大維京這傢伙出來說話我都覺得他邏輯跟白_沒兩樣
02/06 11:22, 33F
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02/06 11:22, , 34F
那當然還是相當imba.... Kim到底是哪一族的爸爸？
02/06 11:22, 34F
噓
02/06 11:31, , 35F
幹，結論就是APM沒500怪力場太強瞜?
02/06 11:31, 35F
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02/06 11:32, , 36F
P雙開無壓力，後期龜死球，T雙開隨時被先知與閃追搞死
02/06 11:32, 36F
還有 32 則推文
推
02/06 12:07, , 69F
可能還要完美甩槍 被狂貼的紅血胖子還要完美載起來
02/06 12:07, 69F
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02/06 12:12, , 70F
death ball是無敵組合的意思
02/06 12:12, 70F
噓
02/06 12:15, , 71F
輸了都是你實力不夠，不是設定有問題
02/06 12:15, 71F
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02/06 12:15, , 72F
真善美時代..立場和躍傳.也一樣可以使用
02/06 12:15, 72F
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02/06 12:15, , 73F
p還不是被快滅絕...不信.不朽改回射程
02/06 12:15, 73F
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02/06 12:15, , 74F
火車人跟emp都都改回來.我就不信.p還會多強
02/06 12:15, 74F
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02/06 12:17, , 75F
騙力場~騙自己吧你
02/06 12:17, 75F
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02/06 12:18, , 76F
樓上都忘了有多媽媽球根稜鏡強化多現了嗎
02/06 12:18, 76F
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02/06 12:18, , 77F
話說點點哥你怎麼又推文了???
02/06 12:18, 77F
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02/06 12:21, , 78F
立場那麼大顆，對方一堆哨兵，隨便卡一卡就等死了
02/06 12:21, 78F
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02/06 12:21, , 79F
騙個屁阿，根本是用意念詛咒對方放歪吧
02/06 12:21, 79F
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02/06 12:22, , 80F
TZ IMBA 下個PATCH馬上改 PIMBA 你們要自己想辦法
02/06 12:22, 80F
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02/06 12:22, , 81F
現在還有緩球(可以壟罩戰場)，放立場可以更不急迫
02/06 12:22, 81F
噓
02/06 12:22, , 82F
P蜜不說話 好無聊
02/06 12:22, 82F
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02/06 12:23, , 83F
他最後兩段真的很扯 完全就是p民叫人L2P的口氣
02/06 12:23, 83F
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02/06 12:24, , 84F
我是不知道別人啦 但如果我贏是建立在對方失誤我不會很爽
02/06 12:24, 84F
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02/06 12:25, , 85F
P:不失誤 我將無敵 (好像在哪聽過
02/06 12:25, 85F
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02/06 12:26, , 86F
假如媽媽球砍掉加上點點哥說的 我就相信P的確不強
02/06 12:26, 86F
噓
02/06 12:26, , 87F
Flash快轉P啦，開創人生第二高峰就靠P，DK語
02/06 12:26, 87F
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02/06 12:26, , 88F
只能贏在對手失誤 以後練習時間改成參拜時間好了
02/06 12:26, 88F
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02/06 12:26, , 89F
其它兩族在戰場上像中猴一直來回騙力場，P是圈著放技能
02/06 12:26, 89F
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02/06 12:26, , 90F
不要害我想起冬菇又輸了.......
02/06 12:26, 90F
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02/06 12:26, , 91F
然後他說這叫作解法？？
02/06 12:26, 91F
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02/06 12:28, , 92F
立場就是一個暴力平衡的產物 輸贏都看P的立場操作 打毛
02/06 12:28, 92F
噓
02/06 12:34, , 93F
立場體積剩一半拉 有兩個控場還不IMBA嗎?
02/06 12:34, 93F
噓
02/06 12:35, , 94F
種族淨化
02/06 12:35, 94F
推
02/06 12:39, , 95F
補推
02/06 12:39, 95F
噓
02/06 12:52, , 96F
幹 看到後面的火又上來了 大衛金你還是洗洗睡吧
02/06 12:52, 96F
噓
02/06 12:53, , 97F
同意樓上支持吃肉轉P 2014包攬全部冠軍
02/06 12:53, 97F
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02/06 13:02, , 98F
立場按一下 運輸載走>後退>放下 原來這樣叫平衡
02/06 13:02, 98F
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02/06 13:02, , 99F
人人都是apm999就是了
02/06 13:02, 99F
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02/06 13:07, , 100F
神族也要期待人族運輸機沒載到的失誤啊 大維京:平衡
02/06 13:07, 100F
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02/06 13:09, , 101F
DK:TZ玩家還是回去多練練吧 看看P玩家努力練習的成果^^
02/06 13:09, 101F
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02/06 14:36, , 102F
先恭喜退役 > '' <
02/06 14:36, 102F
噓
02/06 14:44, , 103F
他馬的醫療艇衝上去救人還要冒著被打掉的風險 立場有三小
02/06 14:44, 103F
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02/06 14:46, , 104F
立場一放，醫療艇衝上去接走，閃追一閃，血雨成就跳出來..
02/06 14:46, 104F
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02/06 15:49, , 105F
說會變血雨的一定apm不夠，我嘴速3000就能逃的掉！
02/06 15:49, 105F
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02/06 15:50, , 106F
聽說嘴速6000以上，單位可以翻牆，就不用怕力場了
02/06 15:50, 106F
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02/06 23:28, , 107F
某樓少講兵營的兵還要打針往前衝才能接上
02/06 23:28, 107F
噓
02/07 21:14, , 108F
騙力場？菱鏡直接封坡道拆家騙鬼喔
02/07 21:14, 108F
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