[情報] Is Jorge Posada a Bad Game Caller?

看板NY-Yankees作者時間15年前 (2009/06/19 20:57), 編輯推噓51(51024)
留言75則, 51人參與, 最新討論串1/1
http://tinyurl.com/nqdl2t One of the topics that has been coming up this season is Jorge Posada's pitch-calling and how it is a problem. Most of the analysis on this is based on comparing the Yankees' ERA with Posada behind the plate versus his backups. Any analysis based on that premise is deeply flawed, because it assumes that the distribution of innings between Posada and his backups include the same pitchers in the same percentages, which is obviously not realistic or true. Also, ERA can be impacted by things that are not directly in control of the batter or pitcher. That doesn't mean we can't look at the question, it just means that to do it right a little more rigorous work needs to be done. In the 2008 Hardball Times Annual, Tango Tiger wrote an article titled With or Without You. The article was focused on Derek Jeter and basically looks at how the team did with or without Jeter for the period in question. Without getting into the Jeter/defense thing again, the methodology that Tango used is ingenious and can be applied in a lot of different ways, even if we must acknowledge it is slightly limited due to sample size issues and random noise. Retrosheet's play by play files allow us to do the WOWY studies for a lot of different criteria. So let's take a look at Posada versus his backups using the WOWY methodolgy. Here are the steps that I followed to do this. 1) Pull in all Yankee Retrosheet play by play data from 2000-2008. Although I have the data to go back past that, I think nine years is enough data, especially if we are trying to ascertain that there is a skill component here. It's probably folly to assume that a player's skill remains static in any area over nine seasons, much less more than that. Since 2009 play by play data is not availabe in an easily parseable format right now, I can't look at that. 2) Separate the data into batters faced with Posada catching versus everyone else. 3) MATCHING INNINGS. This is the key part of this analysis. If you don't ensure that you are weighing the contributions of each pitcher similarly, you are not controlling for possible selective bias, like a good pitcher having a personal catcher. To match innings, I simply pro-rated the larger sample to the smaller sample. For example, Mike Mussina faced 998 batters without Posada catching and 2183 with him, so Mussina's stats for both splits get pro-rated to 998 batters. 4) Add it all up and see what comes out. First, here are the straight totals before matching innings. I am looking at the data in terms of how opposing hitters have done versus the Yankee pitchers, so the numbers you see are the numbers they allowed to hitters. Here are the splits with Posada and others for every pitcher who has pitched for the Yankees from 2000-2008. Matching those innings up, we get the following totals. There's a difference there. The next question we have to ask is if the difference is statistically significant. I'm just going to look at wOBA. Posada's actual performance is a little worse than one standard deviation from his backups. The difference in runs given a wOBA of .332 vs. .324 over a full team season (4100 PA outs) is in the area of 30 runs. That's pretty significant. I'm not sure I trust these numbers based on Keith Woolner's far more exhaustive study that showed game-calling was NOT a statistically significant skill. But that's what these numbers say. I wouldn't call this proof that Posada is a bad game-caller, but it is possible evidence that he may be worse than average in that regard. -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 140.112.5.3

06/19 21:03, , 1F
為什麼投教沒事? 一直怪選手呢?
06/19 21:03, 1F

06/19 21:05, , 2F
有內幕嗎...
06/19 21:05, 2F

06/19 21:09, , 3F
沒什麼內幕吧,這篇文章只是說Posada配球可能不太好
06/19 21:09, 3F

06/19 21:14, , 4F
內幕就是...今年跟他合作的投手都投不太好...
06/19 21:14, 4F

06/19 21:16, , 5F
打預防針?
06/19 21:16, 5F

06/19 21:37, , 6F
因為他們相信投手教練說的 投手狀況都很好 所以怪捕手
06/19 21:37, 6F

06/19 21:48, , 7F
心機不夠深嗎 XD
06/19 21:48, 7F

06/19 21:49, , 8F
這篇是波波跟其他捕手比較 跟他搭配的投手的wOBA/CERA/FIP
06/19 21:49, 8F

06/19 21:49, , 9F
Posada: .332/4.36/4.34 其他捕.324/4.13/4.07
06/19 21:49, 9F

06/19 21:50, , 10F
投教好不好是另一回事 但是Posada的配球可能不怎麼樣
06/19 21:50, 10F

06/19 21:52, , 11F
感覺很少 高快球
06/19 21:52, 11F

06/19 21:56, , 12F
我覺得如果波波那麼不好的話 怎能當主戰捕手那麼多年呢?
06/19 21:56, 12F

06/19 21:56, , 13F
所以怪波波有點扯...><
06/19 21:56, 13F

06/19 21:58, , 14F
打擊?
06/19 21:58, 14F

06/19 21:59, , 15F
輸球總要找一個出來怪 總不可能罵全部
06/19 21:59, 15F

06/19 22:00, , 16F
波波打擊超強 當捕手也不錯阿 是絕佳的選手
06/19 22:00, 16F

06/19 22:06, , 17F
都生涯末期了才在嫌這個 擺明就是沒話找話講啊
06/19 22:06, 17F

06/19 22:07, , 18F
放眼全聯盟有幾個可以拿來當DH的C呢 有好用不錯了
06/19 22:07, 18F

06/19 22:24, , 19F
因為打擊啊 配球掉的分 他能打回來 還有多
06/19 22:24, 19F

06/19 22:35, , 20F
因為他有演六人行 嗯
06/19 22:35, 20F

06/19 22:38, , 21F
XD
06/19 22:38, 21F

06/19 22:41, , 22F
不過好像有些投手不喜歡跟Jorge配耶 像Randy不就不要嗎
06/19 22:41, 22F

06/19 22:41, , 23F
波波差的不是配球 是方向感 打WW2之前的訓練營一直迷路
06/19 22:41, 23F

06/19 22:42, , 24F
我是路人 純推sherlockt XD
06/19 22:42, 24F

06/19 22:45, , 25F
波波比較強勢,遇到態度一樣強硬的投手,難免會有摩擦
06/19 22:45, 25F

06/19 22:47, , 26F
RJ和Moose都不願意和他搭配,年輕的投手自然得聽老鳥的
06/19 22:47, 26F

06/19 22:48, , 27F
可是老的 也有喜歡跟波波配的吧~~ 配球真的是超奧秘的XD
06/19 22:48, 27F

06/19 22:48, , 28F
捕手跟投手教練 待的年份一比也看得出來吧...
06/19 22:48, 28F

06/19 22:49, , 29F
姑且不論合不合 他都配那麼多年了也沒慘到那樣 卻怪他??
06/19 22:49, 29F

06/19 22:50, , 30F
派帥和波波是老戰友,一起成長的,老默契啦
06/19 22:50, 30F

06/19 22:54, , 31F
隔壁的瓦哥有一次和菜鳥一直意見不合,最後讓菜鳥自己投
06/19 22:54, 31F

06/19 22:55, , 32F
立刻挨轟,瓦哥露出一副很賤的表情,超好笑
06/19 22:55, 32F

06/19 22:56, , 33F
樓上是說八釦子那場嗎 袁公有很配合鏡頭在幫他OS XD
06/19 22:56, 33F

06/19 22:57, , 34F
瓦哥只要沒人在壘上他都沒壓力的 有人在壘上他就要祈禱
06/19 22:57, 34F

06/19 22:59, , 35F
能當DH的C:V-Mart,Mauer,Piazza,I-Rod.的確是不多啦..
06/19 22:59, 35F

06/19 23:00, , 36F
Napoli也不錯,TEX的Salty跟Teagarden養起來也是很威
06/19 23:00, 36F

06/19 23:07, , 37F
I-ROD來洋基的打擊....
06/19 23:07, 37F

06/19 23:12, , 38F
Posada:怪我囉1
06/19 23:12, 38F

06/19 23:21, , 39F
投手也投不進去阿
06/19 23:21, 39F

06/19 23:26, , 40F
他當捕手其實不算好.. 打擊強就是了
06/19 23:26, 40F

06/20 00:03, , 41F
不算好??喔,大聯盟近代的強打捕手原來是不夠好,科科.
06/20 00:03, 41F

06/20 00:05, , 42F
人家說的不算好是指防守 你講打擊..雞同鴨講嗎
06/20 00:05, 42F

06/20 00:09, , 43F
喔??他哪個字提到防守??恩??
06/20 00:09, 43F

06/20 00:10, , 44F
POSADA當主戰捕手明顯是因為打擊啊 不然摸二哥守備強多了
06/20 00:10, 44F

06/20 00:11, , 45F
今天會說一個捕手好不好當然是看整體評價啊.
06/20 00:11, 45F

06/20 00:41, , 46F
Posada 是洋基史上第三佳的補手。
06/20 00:41, 46F

06/20 00:41, , 47F
他的語意其實看起來就是那樣阿
06/20 00:41, 47F

06/20 00:54, , 48F
我怎麼記得有篇報導是說波波是攻擊型捕手,配球強調攻
06/20 00:54, 48F

06/20 00:54, , 49F
擊對方弱點。而不是依投手當天狀況來調整?
06/20 00:54, 49F

06/20 01:14, , 50F
干他X事...干投教X事...
06/20 01:14, 50F

06/20 01:24, , 51F
擺明就是在講防守 後面不都講打擊強了 到底誰在跳針
06/20 01:24, 51F

06/20 01:27, , 52F
那句話我的解讀是: Posada當捕手整體不算好,不過打擊強
06/20 01:27, 52F

06/20 01:28, , 53F
嘛,每個人有不同的解讀方式,沒講清楚那會被誤會也正常
06/20 01:28, 53F

06/20 01:29, , 54F
也只有roea68知道他推的那句到底想說啥...
06/20 01:29, 54F

06/20 01:29, , 55F
所以不只王迷會嫌波波的配球囉?
06/20 01:29, 55F

06/20 01:45, , 56F
與其怪波波配球遜 還不如說投教調整夠慢的了投手都壞球魂
06/20 01:45, 56F

06/20 01:55, , 57F
那我解讀是 防守拉低了他捕手的評價 他也承認打擊強
06/20 01:55, 57F

06/20 01:56, , 58F
但是後面的人卻從原意上本來就說的打擊強來反駁他
06/20 01:56, 58F

06/20 01:58, , 59F
看那推文 大部分都能理解不算好的理由吧 ╮(╯_╰)╭
06/20 01:58, 59F

06/20 01:59, , 60F
一個好的捕手 只要有棒子就可以了嗎?
06/20 01:59, 60F

06/20 02:14, , 61F
Posada:怪我囉......
06/20 02:14, 61F

06/20 02:24, , 62F
波波:安打跟全壘打很多都是我貢獻的找我當戰犯>"<凸
06/20 02:24, 62F

06/20 02:40, , 63F
現在才說波波配球有問題..那以前是怎樣...?
06/20 02:40, 63F

06/20 03:16, , 64F
可以伸一下上面那個很賤表情的影片嗎? XD
06/20 03:16, 64F

06/20 06:06, , 65F
很奇怪 火都燒不到投教....
06/20 06:06, 65F

06/20 06:23, , 66F
不講我還沒發現 真的有演六人行...XD
06/20 06:23, 66F

06/20 07:16, , 67F
siliver跳針
06/20 07:16, 67F

06/20 07:45, , 68F
那麻煩說一下我哪邊跳針好咩??科科,還是只會等沒人出來吠?
06/20 07:45, 68F

06/20 08:07, , 69F
不要跟我說一個只有棒子整體不算好的捕手可以待NY那麼久
06/20 08:07, 69F

06/20 08:28, , 70F
最好是用待的久不久來看
06/20 08:28, 70F

06/20 08:31, , 71F
= =...一篇表述 各自解讀...
06/20 08:31, 71F

06/20 09:09, , 72F
他好不好我不知,我只知他蹲捕時我們拿了三連霸
06/20 09:09, 72F

06/20 14:33, , 73F
怎麼有人跳針還一直吠?
06/20 14:33, 73F

06/20 16:50, , 74F
RJ:就已經是二選一了還要我搖第二次
06/20 16:50, 74F

06/20 19:10, , 75F
我是路人 純推sherlockt XD
06/20 19:10, 75F
文章代碼(AID): #1AEuilR4 (NY-Yankees)