[新聞] Short Hops: The Joba/Wang Connection

看板NY-Yankees作者 (let's play some cardz)時間15年前 (2009/05/29 12:31), 編輯推噓46(46060)
留言106則, 51人參與, 最新討論串1/1
http://0rz.tw/dCJXE 這篇蠻長的 最後結論就是記者建議把Joba推去當Setupman,小王進輪值 目前是Yes頭條 副標: The Yankees have miscast two of their best arms 05/28/2009 11:30 AM ET By Jerome Preisler / Special to YESNetwork.com An 18th round draft pick in 2004, he was a right-handed, flame-throwing starter with an attitude who shot up through the team's farm system as a starting pitcher, made his Major League debut the next year in both starting and relief roles, and eventually became a late-inning reliever due to another player's ineffectiveness out of the bullpen. As the 2006 season approached, the team continued to see him as an eventual starter, but his particular mental and physical makeup, and the team's short — and longterm needs, led them to review and eventually revise their plans for him. His name was Jonathan Papelbon and, as the team's closer, he has been critical to the Red Sox's success over the past several seasons. When Joba Chamberlain burst upon the New York baseball scene in 2007 as a lockdown eight-inning setup man, the energy he brought to that role took the city — and in some ways the entire country — by storm. And with good reason. Here was a kid throwing fastballs in the upper nineties and occasionally seared into the triple digits, complimenting with 89 mph sliders. Here was a kid who attacked batters with a bulldog mentality and an arm that backed it up. Here was a jolt of emotion that made the Stadium roar and set opposing batters on their collective heels as they flailed their way back toward their dugout. One, two three. The eighth inning was Joba time. And as he left the mound, it was time to key up "Enter Sandman." It is now time to end the debate about Joba Chamberlain, to stop equivocating about his Yankees future to the detriment of the team. Joba should be returned to the bullpen's eighth-inning setup role and groomed to replace Mariano Rivera as its closer. He is Rivera's best, and perhaps only, realistic successor. Rivera has one year remaining on his contract after 2009 and has said he will retire after it expires. When that happens, it will do more than end an era of dominant, unsurpassable greatness at his position. It will leave the Yankees grappling with a paradigm shift unlike any they've faced since the start of the Joe Torre era. If the maxim that winning teams are built around pitching is true, then it can be argued the New York Yankees have built from the ninth inning on back since 1997, when Rivera became the bedrock of their pitching staff. In the decade and change since, Rivera has been the one consistently reliable element of the team's winning formula and its single most valuable player. The assumption that late leads will be protected when Rivera enters the game — even in the biggest games, the postseason games that count the most — instills a unique confidence in every player and coach's mind. That is a luxury few teams possess, and that no other team in the history of baseball has enjoyed for the length of time — or to the degree — that the Yankees have since Rivera's emergence. The departure of Rivera is so dreaded in the Yankees' universe it appears that few choose to consider its ramifications in a clear, levelheaded light. Instead they focus on the cost of acquiring top-tier starting pitchers through free agency and decide slotting Chamberlain into the rotation is a viable, inexpensive alternative. With his inconsistency and recurrent tentativeness on the mound as a starter, Chamberlain who many inside and outside the Yankee clubhouse view as a solution to the Yankees' bullpen problems and the logical heir to a closer role that Rivera will eventually vacate, has become yet another problem that has to be solved if the team is to succeed — now and in the future. And a future without a closer who at least approaches Rivera's success rate is there for us to see now, as evident as flowers in a field — or perhaps "weeds in a field" would be a better metaphor. In the Yankees' own division, both the Toronto Blue Jays and last year's AL East champions, the Tampa Bay Rays, are stumbling toward irrelevance largely due to bullpen inefficiency and, most specifically, lack of a reliable closer. Rivera, whether through his participation or waiting presence in critical games, is the exclamation point at the end of the sentence that reads, "The Yankees win!" When he retires from baseball. along with the uniform number he is the sole remaining player to ever wear, the sentence will be left to trail off into indeterminacy with an ellipsis followed by a question mark. Or to put that starkly in view: "The Yankees win ...?" Yankees general manager Brian Cashman and manager Joe Girardi have repeatedly indicated the organization has made its decision about Chamberlain. But in every aspect of life, success is contingent on intellectual flexibility, an ability and willingness to reevaluate positions as evidence that challenges them appears and circumstances change and evolve. When we unwilling or unable reassess important decisions, we have succumbed to inertia and are in the process of fading into decay. It is fitting and somewhat ironic that Chamberlain's future is tied to that of another Yankees asset-turned-problem, Chien-Ming Wang. Even as they reconsider their decision to shape Chamberlain into a member of its starting rotation, the Yankees should stop allowing a proven starter, two-time 19-game winner Chien Ming Wang, to languish in the bullpen waiting for mop-up and garbage-time roles. He is out of Minor League options and, barring another rehab stint on the disabled list, must remain on the Yankees' 40-man roster. Wang's two recent performances out of the bullpen, the first against the Philadelphia Phillies on May 22, his second in Texas Wednesday night, make it clear that he has nothing more to rehab but his stamina and confidence, and this can — and when we speak of confidence, must be — accomplished at the Major League level. His lost velocity has nearly returned, and his control and command are on the way. Wang's current status, so aptly detailed by my colleague Jon Lane (who disagrees with me on Chamberlain) is untenable. To let it abide would be organizationally myopic and irresponsible. Wang is not just a sinkerball pitcher, but a 29 year-old power sinkerball pitcher who, between 2005-2007, and then into his injury-shortened 2008 season, built a reputation as the best in the sport. This makes him a premium commodity at the new Yankee Stadium. Wang's entire game is premised on keeping the ball down. And just ask a longtime Yankee pitcher — and the rotation's sole holdover from the championship years — how vital that can be for the home team. "It's simple: If you leave a ball up and they hit in on the barrel, right now it's a home run," said Andy Pettitte after his most recent start at the new Yankee Stadium. He went on to add, "You have to get the ball down, especially if you are not overpowering. If you don't have, or if you are not throwing, overpowering stuff, you cannot let your guard down ever out there right now." After Wang's impressive two innings of work in Texas, catcher Kevin Cash said, "Sinkerballers are contact pitchers, rollover, ground-ball type guys. He got swing-and-misses on his sinker, that's how good it was [Wednesday]. I know everybody harps on the velocity, but the big thing is the movement. You can pitch with that kind of movement at 88-91." Girardi would underscore Cash's remarks with these words: "That's as good as I've seen (Wang) this year," Girardi said. "That's the Chien-Ming Wang we've seen so often. That's what we want to see from him. That's a huge building block." The Yankees must open their eyes to what is before them, and listen to their own words. They must formulate a cohesive, expedient plan that simultaneously reinserts Chien-Ming Wang into their starting rotation (along with CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, Andy Pettitte and Phil Hughes), and that moves Joba Chamberlain into the eighth inning setup role to solidify the current bullpen and finally crown him the heir apparent to the greatest closer of all time. The less time wasted, the better. -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 123.204.137.29

05/29 12:33, , 1F
Wow!
05/29 12:33, 1F

05/29 12:34, , 2F
大概是 Joba 局數限制原因才會換的八
05/29 12:34, 2F

05/29 12:34, , 3F
如果是真的~小王的屁屁這次要坐穩輪值壓!! Joba火球回來吧!
05/29 12:34, 3F

05/29 12:34, , 4F
呵呵
05/29 12:34, 4F

05/29 12:34, , 5F
無論如何.....小王加油......
05/29 12:34, 5F

05/29 12:34, , 6F
這樣對嗎?把一個能當先發的拉去牛棚
05/29 12:34, 6F

05/29 12:35, , 7F
@Q@
05/29 12:35, 7F
※ 編輯: ILuvDumpling 來自: 123.204.137.29 (05/29 12:35)

05/29 12:35, , 8F
如果是真的 小張心裡面不知道會不會賭爛小王/可是 這樣擺
05/29 12:35, 8F

05/29 12:35, , 9F
補幾個字「記者建議」
05/29 12:35, 9F

05/29 12:36, , 10F
To 4ever215...王也是能當先發的吧
05/29 12:36, 10F

05/29 12:36, , 11F
的前提是 大帝真的能夠繼續保持下去....但真的嗎?
05/29 12:36, 11F

05/29 12:37, , 12F
這樣擺的前提是~~小王要有愛阿!沒有愛還是乖乖牛棚吧
05/29 12:37, 12F

05/29 12:37, , 13F
.......「記者建議」.......
05/29 12:37, 13F

05/29 12:37, , 14F
希望這樣+1 想看牛棚的火球張阿
05/29 12:37, 14F

05/29 12:39, , 15F
這樣王才有機會把ERA快快洗低阿...
05/29 12:39, 15F

05/29 12:40, , 16F
to angor...目前板上的人不大都希望王繼續待在牛棚嗎
05/29 12:40, 16F

05/29 12:40, , 17F
這個建議很久了~從開季不久到現在!
05/29 12:40, 17F

05/29 12:41, , 18F
小張投的還OK啦 勉強過得去 關鍵還是在休斯 靜觀其變.....
05/29 12:41, 18F

05/29 12:43, , 19F
比較想看到火球JOBA XD
05/29 12:43, 19F

05/29 12:45, , 20F
to 4ever215: 文章不是舉Papelbon的例子嗎? 哈!
05/29 12:45, 20F

05/29 12:45, , 21F
我也比較想看到能盡量催的喬巴~
05/29 12:45, 21F

05/29 12:46, , 22F
況且,王前三年的成績難道不能證明他可以當好先發嗎?(懷疑)
05/29 12:46, 22F

05/29 12:47, , 23F
Joba要進牛棚是季末的事 況且現在的成績當先發並不差
05/29 12:47, 23F

05/29 12:47, , 24F
不要忘記今年他是五號先發
05/29 12:47, 24F

05/29 12:49, , 25F
大概需要能人快速翻譯一下.裡面是提到一些CL接班問題
05/29 12:49, 25F

05/29 12:54, , 26F
Joba似乎有用球數過多的狀況? 吃不了長局數?
05/29 12:54, 26F

05/29 13:08, , 27F
這是記者建議
05/29 13:08, 27F

05/29 13:28, , 28F
我想看100mile的速球/90mile滑球!!
05/29 13:28, 28F

05/29 13:34, , 29F
目前能接替7 8兩局 好讓mo安心上來 轉頭看看牛棚 =.=.
05/29 13:34, 29F

05/29 13:35, , 30F
這的確不失是個好提議 不過 Joba 會願意嗎 @@a.
05/29 13:35, 30F

05/29 13:36, , 31F
先發 跟中繼 畢竟是兩個境界的 能得到的榮譽也是..
05/29 13:36, 31F

05/29 13:42, , 32F
我覺得不可能,小老闆不只一次說過要讓Joba先發,吉總不
05/29 13:42, 32F

05/29 13:43, , 33F
支持Joba當救援,雖然Joba吃的局數不夠長,用球數過多
05/29 13:43, 33F

05/29 13:43, , 34F
會也不敢不聽老闆的話,何況現在投的好好的戰績又攻頂
05/29 13:43, 34F

05/29 13:44, , 35F
可是Joba三振能力夠強,關鍵時刻這種投手比較適合當救援
05/29 13:44, 35F

05/29 13:45, , 36F
王已經擺明了就是沒愛,幹啥讓他跟Joba換位置?
05/29 13:45, 36F

05/29 13:45, , 37F
有李維拉+小張 兩位王牌救援 先發投手就無後顧之憂了XD
05/29 13:45, 37F

05/29 13:46, , 38F
王只是暫時不被重要 可是能保證現在的先發能夠維持下去嗎?
05/29 13:46, 38F
還有 28 則推文
05/29 15:50, , 67F
這篇跟上一篇有一點點衝突...
05/29 15:50, 67F

05/29 16:16, , 68F
張先發投得沒之前中繼好
05/29 16:16, 68F

05/29 16:35, , 69F
Job去牛棚... 我總覺得是近一個月內不大會看到的事 ...
05/29 16:35, 69F

05/29 16:37, , 70F
不過要真這麼做 , 是否可能跟Joba上一場球速沒出來有關 ?
05/29 16:37, 70F

05/29 16:49, , 71F
MO退休,CL誰來接?若不買一隻,目前似乎也只有小張可以了
05/29 16:49, 71F

05/29 16:57, , 72F
隔壁那隻阿 他延長合約談不攏 說不定有機會 科科
05/29 16:57, 72F

05/29 17:29, , 73F
隔壁的話 搶他們的LF比搶他們的CL實際得多
05/29 17:29, 73F

05/29 17:38, , 74F
這是記者建議
05/29 17:38, 74F

05/29 17:38, , 75F
這是記者建議
05/29 17:38, 75F

05/29 17:38, , 76F
這是記者建議
05/29 17:38, 76F

05/29 18:20, , 77F
能先發的去牛棚的確是浪費 不過不會比把小王當敗處還浪費
05/29 18:20, 77F

05/29 20:21, , 78F
不用怕 照冏拉迪的操法 .......
05/29 20:21, 78F

05/29 21:20, , 79F
其實這點大家都知道吧...Joba的能力 有K有球速有氣勢
05/29 21:20, 79F

05/29 21:21, , 80F
而且其實當個closer 我覺得還比當先發輪值更像個英雄
05/29 21:21, 80F

05/29 21:23, , 81F
Joba的先發 也不能95~100mile連發阿 幾乎都在90~95
05/29 21:23, 81F

05/29 21:24, , 82F
可惜英雄不能當飯吃...sp跟rp的薪水跟貢獻有差
05/29 21:24, 82F

05/29 21:24, , 83F
1把能先發的放牛棚? 阿王建民就不是能先發的媽?
05/29 21:24, 83F

05/29 21:36, , 84F
王建民可以先發,其他人也可以先發阿,有相關嗎?
05/29 21:36, 84F

05/29 22:04, , 85F
位子
05/29 22:04, 85F

05/29 22:57, , 86F
說真的 Joba是先發的料 可是很多人很愛說一切球團為
05/29 22:57, 86F

05/29 22:58, , 87F
主?? 如果是這樣 洋基的現況我想Joba進牛棚是最好的
05/29 22:58, 87F

05/29 22:58, , 88F
說穿了 重視程度不同而已
05/29 22:58, 88F

05/29 23:21, , 89F
確實是球團為主阿,Joba當SP是為了球團未來...
05/29 23:21, 89F

05/30 00:29, , 90F
如果王繼續在牛棚出賽表現良好,乾脆就接setup好了.
05/30 00:29, 90F

05/30 00:34, , 91F
套一句你們常說的話 王證明有先發的能力,為何要擺牛棚
05/30 00:34, 91F

05/30 00:40, , 92F
因為他現在還需要更多的好表現贏回信心
05/30 00:40, 92F

05/30 00:41, , 93F
先卡位先贏~~~
05/30 00:41, 93F

05/30 01:14, , 94F
先發料擺牛棚 v 先發料當敗處
05/30 01:14, 94F

05/30 02:59, , 95F
可是我也覺得這樣比較好耶 joba先發都只剩91-92哩
05/30 02:59, 95F

05/30 02:59, , 96F
應該是需要更多的愛吧!
05/30 02:59, 96F

05/30 02:59, , 97F
或者是需要總教練這種操SP法多一點!!
05/30 02:59, 97F

05/30 03:01, , 98F
未來接MO的位置也不錯阿 想到有100哩的closer 讚啦
05/30 03:01, 98F

05/30 03:12, , 99F
這時候就講先卡位先贏了XD 原來前兩年卡的位都不算就對了
05/30 03:12, 99F

05/30 03:13, , 100F
你要不要乾脆說現在Guildry應該直接請回來先發?
05/30 03:13, 100F

05/30 04:51, , 101F
網頁右邊可以投票表達對joba定位意見 大家來把牛棚灌爆
05/30 04:51, 101F

05/30 06:51, , 102F
王本來就是以先發養的 讓他去牛棚又要及時拿出好成績
05/30 06:51, 102F

05/30 06:52, , 103F
又不是火星人 都不用調適喔
05/30 06:52, 103F

05/30 07:18, , 104F
上面的話用在Joba身上怎麼好像也能通啊,科科.
05/30 07:18, 104F

05/30 10:19, , 105F
Joba的問題還是吃局數,他有好幾場被後援搞掉了
05/30 10:19, 105F

05/30 10:24, , 106F
而且洋基牛棚的需求好像只有Joba有能力填補
05/30 10:24, 106F
文章代碼(AID): #1A7sKVfq (NY-Yankees)