Re: [外電] Twenty-three guys better than Wang? No chance
※ 引述《peking (=.=)》之銘言：
※ 引述《JilSander (Doer brokenheart)》之銘言：
※ [本文轉錄自 CMWang 看板]
作者: wesun (統一獅王重返榮耀^^) 站內: CMWang
標題: [外電] Twenty-three guys better than Wang? No chance
時間: Tue Apr 8 13:12:52 2008
網路上看到到的...不知道有沒有PO過
我不會縮網址 sorry= ="
http://www.bugsandcranks.com/new-york-yankees/twenty-three-guys-better-than-wang-no-chance/
My post about whether or not Chien-Ming Wang is an ace seems
to have stirred up the passions on both sides.
關於我寫的文章探討小王究竟是不是Ace似乎引起了很大的討論,
無論這些討論是贊成或者是反對
‘Chad’ goes so far as to take up my challenge to name 10 better starters
— with stats — by dropping 23 names with ERA as his sole piece of evidence.
Let’s be serious here and take Chad’s entire list, from my perspective,
and I’ll tell you which pitcher I think is better right now.
查德(我猜是有人針對他前一篇評論Wang的文章作的回應)舉了23個他認為比小王好的
先發投手,並且付上ERA以資證明.現在讓我們認真面對查德先生的這份名單,我將會闡述
我的觀點並且告訴你,我認為那些投手目前確實是比小王好.
Here is the list.
這裡是查德的名單
1. Jake Peavy 傑克 皮維,教士隊
2. Johan Santana 猶漢 山塔納,大都會隊
3. Josh Beckett 賈許 貝克特,紅襪隊
4. CC Sabathia 西西 薩巴西亞,印地安人隊
5. Erik Bedard 艾瑞克 貝達德,水手隊
6. Brandon Webb 布蘭登 韋伯,響尾蛇隊
7. John Smoltz 約翰 史摩茲,勇士隊
8. Dan Haren 丹 海倫,響尾蛇隊
9. Chris Young 克力士 楊,教士隊
10. Cole Hamels 寇 海默斯,費城人隊
11. John Lackey 約翰 雷奇,天使隊
12. Gil Meche 吉兒 梅許,皇家隊
13. Justin Verlander賈思汀 瓦蘭德,老虎隊
14. Matt Cain 麥特 該隱,巨人隊
15. Mark Buerhle 馬克 柏里,白襪隊
16. Oliver Perez 歐力佛 培瑞茲,大都會隊
17. Scott Kazmir 史考特 凱茲摩,光芒隊
18. Kelvim Escobar 凱爾文 愛思科巴,天使隊
19. Tim Hudson 提姆 哈森,勇士隊
20. Chad Billingsley查德 畢林思利,道奇隊
21. Roy Oswalt 洛伊 奧士華,太空人隊
22. Fausto Carmona 法士多 卡默納,老虎隊
23. Brad Penny 布瑞德 潘尼,道奇隊
Now let’s go one-by-one and break it down, looking at their numbers
from 2006 and 2007. Those are, in fairness to Wang, his only full major
league seasons.
我們現在讓小王和這些投手比較一下2006及2007球季的數據,
這兩季是小王的完整球季,這樣比較會比較公平.
1. Jake Peavy vs. Wang — 19-6 with a terrific 2.54 ERA last season.
But, 11-14 with a worse than league average 4.09 ERA in 2006. Oh,
and in two post-season starts, an 0-2 record with a 12.10 ERA.
Wang in those two years is 38-13, having lost fewer games in two seasons
that Peavy did in one. Advantage: Wang
皮維在07球季有著恐怖的2.54自責分率以及19勝6敗的成績,但是06球季
卻是11勝14敗高於聯盟平均的4.09自責分率,季後賽0勝2敗與高達12.10的自責分率.
而小王這兩季則是38勝13敗,兩季加起來輸的場數比皮維06年輸的還少
小王占上風
2. Johan Santana — The Mets’ prized acquisition is clearly the best
left-handed starter in the game (sorry, CC Sabathia).
He has won 34 games in the past two seasons, and at least 15 in each of
his four years as a starter. I’m not going to argue here, because
Santan’s presence would make Wang a No. 2. One thing I will say,
though, is a check of Santana’s post-season record reveals only
a 1-4 career mark with a 3.97 ERA. So, regular season greatness
does not always translate to post-season success.
Advantage: Santana
大都會隊的山塔納無疑是當今最好的左投手(薩巴西亞抱歉囉).
這兩季共贏得34勝,而且作為一個先發投手,山塔納過去四年每季至少都有15勝.
毫無疑問的,在山塔那優異表現的面前,小王只能是個二號投手.
但我必須要說一句,季賽的好表現並不一定會帶來季後賽的成功.
你看看山塔納的季後賽表現也不過是1勝4敗,3.97的自責分率.
山塔納占上風
3. Josh Beckett — The only question there has ever been with Beckett
has been health. He has answered that the last two seasons,
pitching 200 or more innings each season. Beckett won 20 last year,
but remember that he did post a 5.01 ERA in 2006. Still,
his post-season work — 6-0 in 10 starts with a miniscule 1.73 ERA —
separates him. Advantage: Beckett
過去貝克特唯一的問題是他的健康.過去兩季貝克特以每年至少200局的貢獻告訴大家
"我是健康寶寶"去年貝克特贏了20場,但請別忘記他06年5.01糟糕的自責分率.另外
他每到季後賽就好像變成超人一樣,總共十次先發就贏了六場,而且自責分率是很變態的
1.73.
貝克特占上風
4. CC Sabathia — 19-7 last season with a 3.21 ERA while winning the Cy Young
Award, but only 7 games over .500 in the three seasons prior to that.
Oh, and what did CC do in the playoffs last season? A 5.40 ERA against
the Yankees and 10.45 in two starts against Boston. Again, regular season
success means nothing in the post-season. Sabathia pitched 241 innings
last season, the first time since 2002 he topped the 200 mark.
I need to see him do it again. Advantage: None
薩巴西亞去年以19勝7敗3.21的自責分率贏得了賽揚獎(後半句看不懂)
但是季後賽呢?對洋基的自責分率高達5.40,對紅襪的自責分率更是慘不忍睹的10.45.
再一次的,我們印證了"季賽的好表現並不一定會帶來季後賽的成功".
去年薩巴西亞一共投了241局,但這是他唯一投超過200局的一季,他必須持續證明他能夠
吃下這麼多的局數.
平手
5. Erik Bedard — Bedard is a nice pitcher, and I give him tons of
credit for going 28-16 over two seasons with the bumbling Orioles.
His 3.16 ERA pitching largely in that bandbox in Baltimore —
almost 1.5 runs below league average — is impressive. But,
Bedard has never pitched 200 innings in a season and you can’t be an ace
if you haven’t proven you can carry the workload — which he hasn’t.
Also, despite his nice numbers can you name a meaningful game the guy has
ever pitched in. Let’s see what he does this season with Seattle
before we even consider Bedard for ‘ace’ status.
Advantage: Wang
貝達德是個好投手,我可以為他背書,因為他居然能在三不五時就要大爆炸的金鶯隊裡
取得過去兩季28勝16敗的成績.在大爆炸的金鶯隊裡,他的自責分率是3.16,甚至遠遠地
低於聯盟平均達1.5分,這十分令人印象深刻.但是貝達德從來沒有在一季投超過200局,
如果他無法證明他能夠吃下這麼多局數,那麼他也無法成為真正的Ace.
而且在他這麼亮眼的數據中,你卻無法說出他有任何一場令人印象深刻的比賽.
再稱呼他為Ace之前,我想,我們先看看他在西雅圖的表現再說吧.
小王占上風
6. Brandon Webb — The reigning NL Cy Young Award winner is a sinkerballer
and maybe the most similar guy to Wang on this entire list.
Webb has won 34 games the past two seasons and has pitched at least
229 innings each of the past three seasons. He strikes out more hitters
than Wang and gives up fewer hits, but I would like to see how he would
fare against American League lineups. For now, though, I’d give him a
slight edge. Advantage: Webb
韋伯是現任的國家聯盟賽揚獎得主,同時他也是這份名單中最性質最接近小王的人
----伸卡球.韋伯過去兩季贏了34場,而且過去三年每年至少投229局.他比小王三振了更多
的人,被打出更少的安打,可是,我很想看看如果是在美國聯盟的話,他還能有這樣的表現嗎?
但是就現在而言,我認為他還是贏了小王一丁點.
韋伯勝出!
7. John Smoltz –The Braves’ righty has been a great pitcher for a long time,
there is no arguing that. He has won 30 games combined and pitched more than
200 innings in each of the past two seasons. He has been a terrific post-season
pitcher as well, going 12-12 with a 2.65 ERA and four saves in 40 appearances.
If I was choosing someone to build around I would take Wang. If I need
someone to start one game, there is probably no one else I would rather give
the ball to than Smoltz, who will soon be 41.
Advantage: Smoltz
這位勇士隊的右投手長久以來毫無疑問的都有好的表現.過去兩季共贏得30場勝投而且
每季都至少投200局以上,季後賽的表現更是棒得沒話說,在他40次的出賽中,一共是
12勝12敗4救援2.65的自責分率.如果要選球員來組成球隊,我會選王,但是如果只是
選一個人來先發一場,沒有人可以取代史摩茲讓我將手中的球交給他,雖然他即將要41歲了
史摩茲勝出!
8. Dan Haren — When was this guy ever the ace of any staff he has been on?
He’s certainly not the ace this year in Arizona, so I’m not sure he
should even be in this conversation. His 15-9 record last season was the most
games he has ever won, and the first time in his career he has finished more
than two games above .500. He’s a good pitcher and an innings-eater, having
pitched at least 217 innings in each of his three full seasons, but that’s
all. Advantage: Wang
什麼時候海倫兄擁有過Ace般的身手了?我很確定他不會是響尾蛇隊的Ace,我甚至不確定
我該不該花時間在這裡討論他.去年他拿下15勝9敗的成績是他生涯最好的一次(我還是看
不懂後面那句).他是個好投手也是個可以吃下很多局數的投手,過去三個完整球季裡他每
季都至少能吃下217局,但就只有這樣而已.
小王輕鬆穫勝!
(好累~有沒有人要接手)
9. Chris Young — Laughable that he is on this list. Won 9 games last year
and has never won more than 12 in his career. Nice 3.12 ERA, but no better
than a two or three on any staff, anywhere. On the Yankees he would be third
behind Wang and Andy Pettitte, and maybe fourth behind Phil Hughes.
Advantage: Wang
很可笑的 Chris Young居然在他所列出比王好的投手清單上:去年只贏了九場比賽,生涯
中單季最多12勝.很棒的自責失分率,但還是不比其他球隊的二號或三號先發好.在洋基的
話,他只會是一個在小王和派帥之後的三號先發,或是Hughes之後的四號先發.
勝出:小王!!
10. Cole Hamels — Hamels is headed for a terrific career. Yet, he has had
one full big-league season and has yet to pitch 200 innings. Is he even the
Phillies ace, or would that title go to Brett Myers who is back in the rotation
after spending last year in the bullpen? Advantage: Wang
Hamels正邁向一個了不起的生涯.但是他還不曾有過一個完整的大聯盟球季,也不曾投超過
兩百局以上.費城人隊的Ace頭銜會是他的?或是屬於去年待在牛棚,今年才回到輪值表的
Brett Myers?
勝出:小王!!!
11. John Lackey — Dominant last season (19-9, 3.01 ERA), but more like Pettitte
than a true No. 1. He’s been good for a while, but had never won more than 14
games prior to last season. I need to see him do it again before I call him a
true ace. Advantage: Wang
去年是他主宰的一季(19-9,ERA 3.01)但比起一個真正的NO.1,他還比較屬於派帥的類型.
他的表現的確好過一陣子,但是他在去年之前單季從來不曾贏超過14場,在我稱呼他為ACE
之前,我必須再看他主宰一遍.
勝出:小王!!!
12. Gil Meche — Like Chris Young, I find it incomprehensible that anyone can
think Meche is a better pitcher than Wang. Won 15 games in 2003, but hasn’t
won more than 11 since. Went 9-13 last year. I know he hasn’t pitched for good
teams, but this is a guy with a 4.47 ERA in 8 seasons. He might be the best
starter the Royals have, but you can hardly call him an ace. Advantage: Wang
就像CHRIS YOUNG一樣,我實在很難理解有人認為Meche是一個比王還好的投手,2003贏了
15場但在那之後從沒贏超過11場,去年9勝13敗.我知道他還未替一個好球隊效力過,但是
在生涯八季超過4.47的自責失分率,他或許是皇家隊擁有的最好投手,但是你真的很難
稱他為一個ace
勝出:小王!!!
13. Justin Verlander — This guy is a young Smoltz, a flamethrower who can be absolutely dominant when he is right. He went 35-15 the past two seasons, and at 25 is still growing into what will likely be a great career. Topped 200 innings for the first time last season (201). He has not been successful in the post-season yet, starting four games and pitching to a 5.82 ERA. Right now, he and Wang are probably equal. Verlander, though, is still getting better. Advantage: Verlander
14. Matt Cain — Are you freakin’ kidding me? A guy who went 7-16 last season and has a 22-29 career record? Ridiculous! Advantage: Wang
15. Mark Buerhle – A couple of years ago this might have been an argument. In 2004 and 2005 Buerhle was an ace. He has fallen a long way, though, going 22-22 the past two seasons and seeing his innings drop from 245 in 2004 to 201 last year. Buerhle is a middle of the rotation guy at this point in his career. Advantage: Wang
16. Oliver Perez — When I stop laughing maybe I’ll comment on this ………… OK, 15-10, 3.64 ERA last year. A nice year when there were no expectations for him, but he’s not an ace. When the Pirates thought he was he pitched himself back to AAA. Better than Wang? If you think so I feel sorry for you. Advantage: Wang
17. Scott Kazmir — Now this is a guy who COULD be an ace. He won a career high 13 games with a 3.48 ERA and worked more innings than Wang (206.7), but he is still young and still has a lot to prove. Included in that is whether or not he can stay healthy, carry a staff and pitch well in meaningful, pressure games. So far, he’s done none of those things. Advantage: Wang
18. Kelvim Escobar — Had a breakout season last year (18-7, 3.40 ERA), but prior to that was 90-90 in the first 10 seasons of his career. Great stuff, but one good season does not make him an ace. Advantage: Wang
19. Tim Hudson — This guy ‘was’ an ace for years in Oakland. He went 16-10 with a 3.33 ERA for Atlanta in 2007, his best season since 2003. Chews up a lot of innings and is a very good pitcher. To me, a lot like Haren or even Mike Mussina in his prime. Very good, I want him on my staff. But, I’m not sure he’s a No. 1 any longer. Advantage: Wang
20. Chad Billingsley — This guy has tremendous ability and might someday be an ace, but it’s too early for him to be in this conversation. It would like putting the Yankees’ Hughes in here, and at this point neither of them belong. Advantage: Wang
21. Roy Oswalt — This guy is an ace, but last year pitched his fewest innings (212) and won his fewest games (14) since 2003. He is a guy who doesn’t fear big games and has a 3-2 record in post-season with a 3.66 ERA. This is a tough call for me, but based on how long he has been doing it and the fact that he is still at — or very near — his peak, I would go with the Astro ace. Advantage: Oswalt
22. Fausto Carmona — Carmona was tremendous last season in his first full year in the big leagues, going 19-8 with a 3.06 ERA in 215 innings. If he can do it again then I’ll say he is Wang’s class. But not yet. Advantage: Wang
23. Brad Penny — Penny has gone 32-13 the past two seasons. He did, however, post a 4.33 ERA in 2006 and that’s not an ‘ace’ ERA. Like with Carmona, I need to see another year like 2007, when he posted a 3.03 ERA and pitched 208 innings before I call him a real ace. Advantage: Wang
So, of the 23 starting pitchers ‘Chad’ wants to put ahead of Wang I will give you five, and call Sabathia a ‘push.’ That doesn’t mean there are only 5 guys better than Wang (Roy Halladay, for example, wasn’t on this list).
If you are fair about it, though, and really look at the numbers you have to admit Wang ranks pretty darn high on the list of best starting pitchers in the league.
An ace? Definitely.
Arguments, anyone? Let’s hear ‘em.
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