[情報] Joey Votto at center of scouts vs. sta

看板MLB作者時間11年前 (2013/05/25 09:43), 編輯推噓25(25023)
留言48則, 24人參與, 最新討論串1/3 (看更多)
http://tinyurl.com/ojt2uf9 The old school scout is tanned and paunchy. His face is leathery from decades of sitting in sunburned high school bleachers; his eyes are wrinkled from all the squinting. Cut him open, he bleeds rosin. He has a radar gun, a notebook and some binoculars. He knows what he knows. "Joey Votto is supposed to drive in runs,'' he says. "The guys in front of him are paid to score them. When you're batting third in any lineup, if you're taking close pitches with runners on base, you're not doing your job.'' The new age executive is young and lean. He wears a tie. He has a laptop, which he opens to reveal the secrets of baseball. His secrets, anyway. He looks at the old scout and says, "Tell me again where you got your Economics degree?'' The young exec uses terms the scout finds exotic. He seems to talk in code: WAR. OPS. BABIP. BABIP? The exec loves Joey Votto. He thinks Votto earns every penny of the $9.5 million he's making this year, and the $225 million he will make through 2023, if he plays out his current contract. The young exec knows what he knows. "Look how much better he makes the hitters around him,'' he says. "Look at the opportunities he's creating to score runs, not just for himself, but for others.'' The debate rages. Scout says, "He has 22 RBIs in 47 games. That's a 75-RBI pace. Unacceptable.'' Young exec says, "He's in the top five in nearly every offensive category directly related to run production. RBIs are a dated way to measure a player's offensive ability.'' Scout pauses, arms his mouth with a bit of Skoal Wintergreen to pouch his lower lip. Momentarily, he will line a fine stream of brown at the executive's Cole Haans. "My number three hitter isn't walking with runners in scoring position. Not on a pitch that's a quarter-inch off the plate,'' he says. And so it goes. The Cincinnati Reds first baseman, a former NL MVP and a current cornerstone of one of the best teams in the game, is at the center of a fascinating discussion between old and new, Skoal and Skype, traditional and innovative. The narrative is ongoing, and won't change until Votto starts crashing balls into the seats and the gaps. Until he has more RBIs than, oh, Yuniesky Betancourt. Votto has seven homers and 22 RBIs. He needed three homers and 5 RBIs in the past week, just to reach those modest totals. Nine National League first basemen have driven in more runs. Three of Votto's own teammates have more RBI. Miguel Cabrera alone had 55 driven in after Thursday's games. This has caused some consternation in Cincinnati, where worrying about the Reds -- regardless of their success -- is something of a birthright. "I definitely fall on the old school side. He's not paid to walk,'' says Reds Hall of Fame announcer Marty Brennaman. "Walking is a byproduct of being a good hitter. He's paid to drive in runs.'' What do you want from a No. 3 hitter? If Votto batted second, there would be no discussion. Best two-hole hitter in the game. If he led off, ditto. In fact, if Votto batted anywhere but 3rd or 4th, the old scout would sooner mix the Skoal in with his corn flakes than say a discouraging word. Even so, no one thinking clearly would suggest Votto isn't one of the four or five best hitters in baseball. The exec opens his laptop. Numbers appear: Average: .358, second-best in the game. On-base percentage: .484, best in the game. On-base plus slugging: 1.030, third. Runs: 38, second. Hits: 63, fourth. Next case, counselor. Votto also leads this world and possibly several others in bases on balls with 41. He's like the kid who scrapes the lima beans out of the succotash. Votto is discriminating. Some would say overly so. Marty Brennaman: "Votto will take a 3-0 pitch an inch off the outside corner, when he could do with it what he did (Wednesday),'' when he drilled said pitch into the lower deck at Citi Field, for his seventh homer. "I believe in expanding your strike zone when you have guys on base.'' "He's frustrating if you're solely attached to traditional stats,'' says Jay Jaffe, an SI.com baseball writer and stats guru. "Look at the entirety of his production. I'll gladly pay a guy (Votto's salary) who has an OPS of 1.000. He's keeping the line moving.'' Personally, Votto doesn't care what others think, unless the other is Ted Williams. When he was in the minor leagues, Votto carried a dog-eared copy of Williams' classic book, The Science of Hitting. Now, he not only has it memorized, he lives it. When you ask Votto what homers and RBIs mean to him, he'll say, paraphrasing, "Not much. The process matters. Hitting your pitch matters. If I do that, those numbers will be there.'' It's hard to dispute. There's no SABER-stat for Best Eye in the Game. Votto would certainly be in the center of that photo. Because he's so keen, umpires give him the benefit of the doubt on close pitches. That only encourages his keenness. And yet. . . Votto has 22 RBIs, even as he has baseball's current best leadoff hitter, Shin-Soo Choo, setting his table. The biggest beneficiary of Votto's pickiness has been Brandon Phillips. The Cincinnati second baseman and cleanup hitter leads the NL in runs batted in. He's doing the work some think Votto ought to be doing. But as Jaffe says, "You can nitpick. They're winning. They're scoring runs. It's a team game. As long as he's not the only guy hitting. . .'' For the moment, Votto is what Jaffe calls "a flashpoint in the culture war between" old and new ways of thinking. He has Ted Williams' eye. He's not hitting Ted Williams' home runs, though, or producing the Splinter's RBIs. Until he does, new age executive is flashing his laptop, and the old school scout is loading up with Skoal. 球探: Votto只顧撿保送而沒盡到打回隊友的中心打者責任 年輕數據派: 看看Votto是如何讓隊友變得更好 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 108.252.142.81

05/25 09:43, , 1F
棒球素養
05/25 09:43, 1F

05/25 09:48, , 2F
昨天棒球板才有把打點當打擊能力最重要數據的......
05/25 09:48, 2F

05/25 09:51, , 3F
Phillips:低調低調
05/25 09:51, 3F

05/25 09:52, , 4F
最近兩年有一點點這類跡象.天知道是好是壞
05/25 09:52, 4F

05/25 09:54, , 5F
不過打點是有點少沒錯..........
05/25 09:54, 5F

05/25 09:54, , 6F
Votto:不爽你來打~
05/25 09:54, 6F

05/25 09:57, , 7F
調個棒次就好啦 撿保送還被嫌
05/25 09:57, 7F

05/25 10:03, , 8F
殺豬公球探
05/25 10:03, 8F

05/25 10:03, , 9F
打點少另一個原因是紅人二棒OBP根本悲劇
05/25 10:03, 9F

05/25 10:05, , 10F
你應該不會希望你最好的打者是打線上最會撿保送的
05/25 10:05, 10F

05/25 10:07, , 11F
我猜這才是old school印象派想說的話
05/25 10:07, 11F

05/25 10:10, , 12F
除非秋信守換到Votto後面..不然硬打壞球 不如選掉
05/25 10:10, 12F

05/25 10:11, , 13F
這... 我還以為最不會出局的可以算最好的打者欸?
05/25 10:11, 13F

05/25 10:13, , 14F
最不會出局沒用阿.你BB上去後面out回家...
05/25 10:13, 14F

05/25 10:13, , 15F
棒球從來都不是XR27一隊
05/25 10:13, 15F

05/25 10:14, , 16F
如果一隊9個打者都叫Joey Votto.那無論怎麼BB下一個上來的
05/25 10:14, 16F

05/25 10:15, , 17F
都是Joey Votto當然沒差.但是現實可不是如此
05/25 10:15, 17F

05/25 10:16, , 18F
一個Votto BB上壘後.下一次要在輪到.得8個人次後了
05/25 10:16, 18F

05/25 10:17, , 19F
所以強打看到壞球也要去打嗎?
05/25 10:17, 19F

05/25 10:17, , 20F
可惜現實沒辦法同時模擬兩種情況.誰也不知到底哪種選擇
05/25 10:17, 20F

05/25 10:17, , 21F
對球隊"最佳"
05/25 10:17, 21F

05/25 10:18, , 22F
我以為強打是能夠選出好球,並且確實攻擊這個好球的人
05/25 10:18, 22F

05/25 10:20, , 23F
曾經沒人保護的BB爺表示:
05/25 10:20, 23F

05/25 10:28, , 24F
排Votto後面的棒次多少有點責任吧
05/25 10:28, 24F

05/25 10:29, , 25F
沒Votto強又不是後面的錯 Phillips跟Bruce也很好了
05/25 10:29, 25F

05/25 10:30, , 26F
現在是有幾個人跟Votto一樣強啊XD
05/25 10:30, 26F

05/25 10:30, , 27F
所以BB爺以強打來說打點也不算多啊 只是他太神了
05/25 10:30, 27F

05/25 10:31, , 28F
所以即使大家都不丟好球給他打 他還是能敲回100 RBI
05/25 10:31, 28F

05/25 10:31, , 29F
大吉表示:
05/25 10:31, 29F

05/25 10:31, , 30F
不是說要多強,至少不用對Votto投那麼開
05/25 10:31, 30F

05/25 10:34, , 31F
看Votto的z-s.o-s.很明顯揮棒慾望最近2-3季掉不少
05/25 10:34, 31F

05/25 10:35, , 32F
不是說要多強 那到底是要多強XD
05/25 10:35, 32F

05/25 10:35, , 33F
以他的選球跟contact帳面會變很漂亮完全不意外阿
05/25 10:35, 33F

05/25 10:37, , 34F
另外投手對他也沒有丟的多閃.起碼沒有大幅變動
05/25 10:37, 34F

05/25 10:46, , 35F
往另一個方向想 攻擊把握性較低的球讓自己出局的話 連
05/25 10:46, 35F

05/25 10:46, , 36F
做球給下一棒的機會都沒有
05/25 10:46, 36F

05/25 10:47, , 37F
有趣 直得討論
05/25 10:47, 37F

05/25 10:51, , 38F
看你喜歡2010年的Votto.還是這兩年的Votto吧
05/25 10:51, 38F

05/25 10:52, , 39F
都是頂尖打者完全不用討論.但是一邊偏長打.一邊OBP爆高
05/25 10:52, 39F

05/25 11:03, , 40F
美國恰恰嗎XD
05/25 11:03, 40F

05/25 11:10, , 41F
跟恰恰不一樣吧= =
05/25 11:10, 41F

05/25 11:22, , 42F
哪樣好沒一定吧 要看後面棒次的強弱取決要否積極揮擊
05/25 11:22, 42F

05/25 11:29, , 43F
米糕表示:有打點,我自己吃了,不用留給後面胖王子 XD
05/25 11:29, 43F

05/25 12:02, , 44F
重點是Votto就吃不到打點 Phillips也做不到保護他的能
05/25 12:02, 44F

05/25 13:09, , 45F
所以今年的小賈斯汀& Harper也實在很不應該~(誤
05/25 13:09, 45F

05/25 16:20, , 46F
卡布太誇張了,才5月底已經57分打點
05/25 16:20, 46F

05/25 20:12, , 47F
不過Philips打點也不少啊,算是有盡到責任啊
05/25 20:12, 47F

05/25 21:06, , 48F
米糕2013紫卡一張,end。
05/25 21:06, 48F
文章代碼(AID): #1He1SxtN (MLB)
文章代碼(AID): #1He1SxtN (MLB)