Is Robinson Cano … overrated?

看板MLB作者時間12年前 (2011/10/30 12:42), 編輯推噓43(43037)
留言80則, 38人參與, 最新討論串1/2 (看更多)
http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/2011/10/is-robinson-cano-overrated-35970 Stephen Rhoads at RAB scooped me Thursday. My intention had been to write a post investigating how much money Robinson Cano might be in a position to get once he hits free agency. Rhoads beat me to the punch, forcing me to change my focus. Fortunately for me, I came across another idea while researching my Cano salary post. Rhoads was elaborating upon a rumor that Scott Boras has approached the Yankees about renegotiating Cano’s current contract. Stephen concluded that Robbie may be in a position to get a six year, $100 million deal from the Yankees. He linked to a Mike Axisa post from the summer that suggested Cano may be due for a six year, $120 million pay out. Those contract numbers represent serious bank for Robbie, but Cano is a steal at those prices because he’s one of the best players in baseball … right? Right? Robinson is an immensely talented baseball player. He’s tantalized fans and scouts alike with his natural ability since he burst onto the scene in 2005 to replace an injured (and awful) Tony Womack. He locked up his reputation as one of the best players in the entire sport in 2010, when he had his best season to date. He reinforced his reputation as one of the game’s best with a stellar 2011 season. An annual salary of $17 to $20 million would make Robinson Cano one of baseball’s twenty highest paid players. That isn’t such a big deal, given Cano’s reputation as being one of the game’s twenty best players. The dirty little secret, however, is that, as good as Robbie is, the operative word in these last two paragraphs is reputation. Robbie may have a reputation as being one of the game’s best, but the numbers don’t back that up. In terms of WAR, wOBA, Home Runs, SLG and OBP — reputation too — 2010 was far and away Robinson’s best season in baseball. He had an amazing year, posting 6.5 fWAR, a .389 wOBA, 29 homers, a .534 SLG and a .381 OBP. That was an amazing season, an All Star season to say the least. It wasn’t, however, a top ten season in baseball that year. Cano’s fWAR of 6.5 ranked 11th in the game in 2010 among position players. That’s amazing, but it isn’t as amazing as the hype surrounding that season would suggest. His wOBA rates similarly. Cano placed 12th in all of baseball in 2010, which is truly phenomenal, but to hear people talk about it you’d think Robbie was one of the top five hitters in the game. He wasn’t. His .389 2010 wOBA was tied with Ryan Zimmerman‘s mark, and just .001 points ahead of Shin-Soo Choo. Both of those guys are excellent ball players, but neither’s 2010 season was as hyped as Cano’s. 2011 tells a similar story. Once again, Robbie had a great season. He posted 5.6 fWAR with a .375 wOBA, 28 homers, a .533 SLG and a .349 OBP. That was an All Star caliber season, but it wasn’t one of the top seasons in all of baseball. In 2010 he came close to having one of the top seasons in baseball. He didn’t come close in 2011. His fWAR ranked 22nd in the entire game while his wOBA was 27th in all of baseball. He placed just ahead of Aramis Ramirez. Is anyone talking about giving Aramis $100 million? This raises three questions. Is Robbie overrated, as my title implies? If so, why is he overrated? And, regardless, given that he’s critical to the Yankees ’ long-term success and will soon be a free-agent, should he be as highly paid as Stephen and Mike at RAB suggest? I’ll tackle these in order. Bluntly put, Robbie is overrated. Don’t get me wrong. Robbie is great. He’s phenomenal. I never want to see him in another uniform for the rest of his career. But, just about everyone who follows baseball, professional and amateur alike, talks about Cano as though he’s been one of the game’s single best players for the last couple of seasons. That’s simply not true. He’s been one of the top fifteen to twenty position players in the last two seasons, but he hasn’t been as good as the hype. Perhaps this is a cruel application of the definition of overrated, but the facts are when someone is not as good as we claim, he is overrated. There are two reasons why Robbie is (just a little) overrated. First, he plays in New York. He’s succeeding on the world’s biggest stage. That will make any star burn brighter. Second, Robbie looks so good playing baseball that we think he’s better than he is. Cano is one of the most graceful, exciting baseball players I’ve ever seen in a lifetime of watching this game. When he does something good on the field, its often something astounding, and he executes with pizazz. Whether its running down a ball in the gap and making an impossible throw to first across his body or dropping his bat and briefly admiring a ball that he’s just hit into the stratosphere, Robbie does a lot of things in baseball that no one else can do. The problem is that he does many near-impossible things so well that we forget to notice all the essential things that he does badly, like take pitches. We overrate Cano because he’s so much fun to watch play baseball that we naturally think he’s better than he is. All that said, even if we say Robbie is a top five player when he is not, he is still a top twenty player who will be a free agent after the 2013 season at the latest, which would be just his age 30 season. Should the Yankees make him not just one of the top twenty highest paid position players in the game, but one of the top twenty highest paid players, period? I vote yes, resoundingly, slightly overrated or not (and I emphasize slightly, because Robbie is obviously an elite player). Since 2009 Robbie has accumulated 16.4 fWAR, while hitting .314/.361/.529, for a .378 wOBA. That may not make him a top ten position player, but it does rank 13th in the game during that time. Among second basemen only Ben Zobrist and Chase Utley have been better during that stretch, and not by much. Setting defense aside, Robbie’s .378 wOBA during that stretch is 14th in the game and tops among all second basemen. Having turned 29 this October, Robbie figures to be one of the game’s elite second basemen for the next five or six years. He figures to be worth at least $18 million a season to the Yankees. The team should pay him fairly and lock him up for a few more seasons if it can. He is, after all, perhaps the game’s best second basemen, even if he’s not perhaps its best player. -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 140.112.25.133

10/30 12:47, , 1F
還好 現在NY會被認為是overrated應該是A-Rod
10/30 12:47, 1F

10/30 12:59, , 2F
作者說被高估是因為Cano不是聯盟最頂尖球員之一,但又同時認
10/30 12:59, 2F

10/30 13:00, , 3F
為他是前15~20的野手,還可能是最好的二壘手,不禁讓人想問
10/30 13:00, 3F

10/30 13:01, , 4F
那被高估的比較點是甚麼?有很多人或共識Cano是前十的野手嗎?
10/30 13:01, 4F

10/30 13:03, , 5F
看薪水吧
10/30 13:03, 5F

10/30 13:08, , 6F
薪水跟身手的比較吧
10/30 13:08, 6F

10/30 13:14, , 7F
Is NY Yankees overrated?
10/30 13:14, 7F

10/30 13:19, , 8F
overrate 和overpay不一樣吧
10/30 13:19, 8F

10/30 13:19, , 9F
Jeter如果不論效益單論場上表現那也是...
10/30 13:19, 9F

10/30 13:20, , 10F
CANO 才14M哪裡Overrated...
10/30 13:20, 10F

10/30 13:20, , 11F
今天風浪小 天氣好 KIZAKULA浮標準備好了
10/30 13:20, 11F

10/30 13:21, , 12F
Cano要說的話就是防守不夠好 加上都不選球 其他都很OK
10/30 13:21, 12F

10/30 13:26, , 13F
I Don'T Care. 反正他的實績.態度和目前合約都讓人滿意
10/30 13:26, 13F

10/30 13:26, , 14F
就這樣
10/30 13:26, 14F

10/30 13:27, , 15F
噢 還有他的防守其實不差 至少已經是中上了 XD
10/30 13:27, 15F

10/30 13:29, , 16F
對不起我看錯了 看成overpay XDDD
10/30 13:29, 16F

10/30 13:40, , 17F
yes yes of course he is
10/30 13:40, 17F

10/30 13:59, , 18F
樓上能說得這麼斬釘截鐵?
10/30 13:59, 18F

10/30 14:00, , 19F
CANO防守很不錯的...
10/30 14:00, 19F

10/30 14:01, , 20F
中南美球員的守備有它的獨到之處...
10/30 14:01, 20F

10/30 14:30, , 21F
重點是他沒聽到痛痛的消息吧:D
10/30 14:30, 21F

10/30 14:35, , 22F
to TMAC 因為在洋基阿
10/30 14:35, 22F

10/30 14:37, , 23F
overrated跟overpaid沒關係阿
10/30 14:37, 23F

10/30 15:16, , 24F
完全不懂1F在說什麼..A-Rod overrated?? 別鬧了..
10/30 15:16, 24F

10/30 15:35, , 25F
我只是覺得說一個球員overrated,倒底評斷標準在哪?
10/30 15:35, 25F

10/30 16:06, , 26F
Cano防守不夠好?? 我差點噴飯
10/30 16:06, 26F

10/30 16:09, , 27F
Cano防守不好...真懷疑你有看過MLB嗎?
10/30 16:09, 27F

10/30 16:14, , 28F
Cano已經沒得挑了 拜託
10/30 16:14, 28F

10/30 16:17, , 29F
XDDDDD
10/30 16:17, 29F

10/30 16:17, , 30F
UZR給Cano的生涯總分是-39.9,不知道是真的很差還怎樣?
10/30 16:17, 30F

10/30 16:18, , 31F
真得很好奇有這種砲瓦 防守也比CANO好的球員有幾個0.0
10/30 16:18, 31F

10/30 16:18, , 32F
是說也有很多外國球探認為以他身材最後要移防1B就是了
10/30 16:18, 32F

10/30 16:20, , 33F
是因為捧過頭嗎?之前Utley打更好時好像沒被這樣評過
10/30 16:20, 33F

10/30 16:22, , 34F
他UZR是負的 防守說不上好 但我沒說他爛 要跳針也不是
10/30 16:22, 34F

10/30 16:23, , 35F
這樣
10/30 16:23, 35F

10/30 16:24, , 36F
因為Utley 生涯UZR +88.5 找不到地方挑骨頭
10/30 16:24, 36F

10/30 16:32, , 37F
說cano防守不夠好 是說瞎上身嗎
10/30 16:32, 37F

10/30 16:57, , 38F
我不是說他很好 不過uzr這數據的片面與謎樣應該不用多說
10/30 16:57, 38F

10/30 16:58, , 39F
同一個人同一年光是兩個網站算出來的可能就有不小差距
10/30 16:58, 39F

10/30 16:58, , 40F
更不用說大幅變動是家常便飯 以他自己來說
10/30 16:58, 40F

10/30 16:59, , 41F
06是-8.3 07變成+7.5(這可是前幾名的成績) 08又變-11.2
10/30 16:59, 41F

10/30 17:00, , 42F
而且-39.9是生涯7年加起來的數字不是平均 這是因為生涯
10/30 17:00, 42F

10/30 17:01, , 43F
7年中有2年加起來就達到-33 包括新人年
10/30 17:01, 43F

10/30 17:02, , 44F
被說守備變好的近三年 數字都在-3以內
10/30 17:02, 44F

10/30 17:03, , 45F
但就是不夠好不是嗎 有進步但是跟一些神級的還是有明
10/30 17:03, 45F

10/30 17:04, , 46F
顯差距 以Utley來說他沒有一年是負的 Cano Range有點小
10/30 17:04, 46F

10/30 17:06, , 47F
Utley:二壘很難嗎 (  ̄ c ̄)y▂ξ
10/30 17:06, 47F

10/30 17:09, , 48F
所以我第一句就是說他現在"其實不差"."也算中上"這樣
10/30 17:09, 48F

10/30 17:09, , 49F
TZ給Cano分數倒是不錯,不過近兩年有退化跡象
10/30 17:09, 49F

10/30 17:09, , 50F
除了range 綜合看他現在傳球順暢度反應能力等等
10/30 17:09, 50F

10/30 17:10, , 51F
Brandon Phillips剛好相反,UZR很好TZ很差
10/30 17:10, 51F

10/30 17:10, , 52F
我自認為那句話是還可以 至於討論中另有板友語氣比較激
10/30 17:10, 52F

10/30 17:11, , 53F
或者針對皮卡丘你那句 那就和我無關了 XD
10/30 17:11, 53F

10/30 17:12, , 54F
當然就是因為Cano很優秀才拿Utley出來比 隨便哪個人就
10/30 17:12, 54F

10/30 17:12, , 55F
另外也只是補充一下abc那敘述 因為一開始唯一只丟一個
10/30 17:12, 55F

10/30 17:12, , 56F
-39.9 很容易看起來就馬上覺得糟得非常可怕 XD
10/30 17:12, 56F

10/30 17:13, , 57F
可以出來比Utley嗎
10/30 17:13, 57F

10/30 17:14, , 58F
這應該常有的事 像鐵爺 TZ跟UZR就有點差
10/30 17:14, 58F

10/30 17:14, , 59F
唔 你一開始說他不夠好可能是愛深責切 不過反正對我來說
10/30 17:14, 59F

10/30 17:15, , 60F
球隊現在2B有這樣的人站先發各方面我都很滿意了就是了XD
10/30 17:15, 60F

10/30 17:15, , 61F
攻擊數字年紀健康狀態合約都沒什麼好挑剔的
10/30 17:15, 61F

10/30 17:24, , 62F
防守數據很謎的,二壘砲貴一點我覺得可以接受
10/30 17:24, 62F

10/30 17:27, , 63F
何況第二名第三名輸第一名也很正常吧XD
10/30 17:27, 63F

10/30 18:20, , 64F
Cano根本是強&帥的完美合體
10/30 18:20, 64F

10/30 18:41, , 65F
看推文就知道一堆YESPN養出的球迷
10/30 18:41, 65F

10/30 19:04, , 66F
都給你們說就好了啊
10/30 19:04, 66F

10/30 19:42, , 67F
講得他好爛的樣子 事實上就整體而言 比CANO好的 也沒幾個-.-
10/30 19:42, 67F

10/30 19:50, , 68F
綜合全大聯盟二壘手來說,Cano已經沒啥好挑剔了
10/30 19:50, 68F

10/30 19:52, , 69F
身體健康,有POWER,打擊技巧也全面,防守中上...
10/30 19:52, 69F

10/30 19:53, , 70F
除了選球:)
10/30 19:53, 70F

10/30 20:49, , 71F
contact好,比較不愛選
10/30 20:49, 71F

10/30 21:19, , 72F
雖然不愛選球至少打得不錯啊...以2B來說Cano真的很不錯了
10/30 21:19, 72F

10/30 21:26, , 73F
不愛選但他也不是風扇阿~
10/30 21:26, 73F

10/30 21:28, , 74F
如果還有選球就太全面了XD
10/30 21:28, 74F

10/30 23:54, , 75F
沒選球 打擊率還是三成阿 至少不是盲打XD
10/30 23:54, 75F

10/31 00:27, , 76F
以二壘砲來說算物有所值.再有選球眼的話就不是這種價錢
10/31 00:27, 76F

10/31 00:54, , 77F
Cuz UZR is a piece of shit
10/31 00:54, 77F

10/31 04:23, , 78F
葛雷諾: 如果挖地瓜都可以開HR, 選球要來幹嘛?
10/31 04:23, 78F

10/31 08:29, , 79F
Cano這種2B你還奢求什麼?不然還要誰?又不是每隊都有阿特力
10/31 08:29, 79F

10/31 12:43, , 80F
Cano已經是目前大聯盟最強的二壘手之一 至少是排行前三
10/31 12:43, 80F
文章代碼(AID): #1EhDN1Vt (MLB)
文章代碼(AID): #1EhDN1Vt (MLB)