[翻譯] MonteCristo談CJ Blaze的比賽策略

看板LoL作者 (0.0)時間11年前 (2013/06/14 23:01), 編輯推噓34(35137)
留言73則, 33人參與, 最新討論串1/1
原文連結:http://goo.gl/CkC06 前言:這是OGN主播MonteCristo在明天春季賽前夕前寫的一篇分析文章,個人覺得蠻好的 ,而且或許裡面的一些想法可以供國內的一些戰隊或是選手參考(當然他們可能也都看過 ,或是自己也有看出來><)來應對韓式速推流,就翻出來和大家分享一下。 另外若有錯誤也還請各位指正。 ---- Hello, boys and girls. I’ve been doing some heavy research to prepare for the upcoming OGN Champions Spring finals, and I wanted to discuss CJ Entus Blaze’s key strategy that helped them to win 13 consecutive games in the most competitive League of Legends tournament in the world. The team developed a highly tuned version of the “slow minion push” – a term coined by bummer2000's analysis of World Elite some months back – into a strategy that I call “The Sixth Man.” In essence, their slow pushing creates a massive minion wave that simulates the damage and presence of an additional champion attacking a tower, thereby resulting in an overcommitment of resources by the enemy to deal with the pressure, which in turn gives Blaze an opportunity to farm or take objectives. Today we’ll look at a single example from the OGN Champions Semifinals. To start out with let’s look at the team compositions: Blaze:Kennen、Nasus、Orianna、Varus、Sona Frost:Rumlbe、Shen、Xerath、Caitlyn、Thresh 大家好,最近我為了要準備OGN春季賽的轉播,我作了許多研究,今天想和大家討論一下 Blaze能夠在全世界最競爭的聯賽中拿下十三連勝的關鍵策略。 他們開發出的策略我稱為「Slow minion push」,這和幾個月前bummer2000談到的WE策略 有點相似,那個策略我稱為「The Sixth Man」。(http://goo.gl/yw4RF,這是該篇文章 連結) 簡單的說,他們的策略累積了大量的小兵來對塔造成傷害,再加上英雄對塔的傷害,可以 視為幾乎是兩個英雄的攻擊,迫使對手必須派出更多人來防守,因而讓自己的隊員有機會 藉此在其他線多農兵或是農野怪。 Let’s now begin breaking down Blaze’s use of The Sixth Man by looking at a series of screenshots that demonstrate how the team compositions and decisions affect the map pressure. I had the good fortune to review these games with Chaox, who is currently in Korea to see the OGN Champions Spring finals, so I’ve tried to include his insights in addition to my own. 現在就讓我們開始分析吧,我很幸運地能和Chaox一起討論,他現在正在韓國,明天也會到 現場來看OGN決賽。 (圖一:http://goo.gl/YrxvIBefore the five minute mark in this game, both Frost and Blaze pushed down each other’s turrets simultaneously, with Blaze losing top and Frost losing bot. At this juncture, we see an even gold count and a slight CS lead for Flame over Shy, with both players finding themselves in 1v2 lanes. Since Frost knocked down the top tower, this creates more Dragon pressure as Hermes and MadLife find themselves free to rotate bottom or mid to continue pushing while traditionally Blaze would choose to send their duo top. Blaze, however, makes a particularly intriguing decision that shows an advanced knowledge of farming and minion wave manipulation, which also sets them up for late-game success. 在比賽開始約五分鐘時,Frost和Blaze已同時推掉一座塔,由於Frost的主動逆EU,Blaze 的上塔被推掉,而Frost的下塔被推掉。在這個時候,我們可以看到幾乎一樣的金錢和些微 的CS領先在Flame身上(相對於Shy) 由於Frost推掉了上塔,若Blaze按照傳統的換線策略把他們的雙人線換到上路,那麼Frost 就能給小龍壓力,他們的雙人線能夠換到中路或下路繼續推塔。不過Blaze在這做了有點陰 險的策略,憑藉著進階的農兵以及控兵線的技巧,還有對遊戲的認識,來奠定他們後期勝 利的基礎。 (圖二:http://goo.gl/EUNcBAfter seeing Ambition recall and Flame remain in top lane, Frost makes the logical decision to take a free Dragon. Shy already quickly pushed bottom lane to Blaze’s turret, thereby equalizing his CS with Flame. Interestingly, Flame chooses to ONLY LAST HIT the wave pushing TOWARDS him in top lane, which initially built up when Hermes and MadLife pushed down Blaze’s turret. Flame prunes this wave precisely and as slowly as possible, a strategy that will bear fruit in a couple minutes. While Flame lethargically last-hits in top, Ambition, Captain Jack, and LustBoy begin aggressively clearing with their abilities to prevent Frost from rotating mid or bottom for a turret kill after Dragon. 在發現Ambition回家然後Flame持續待在上路後,Frost很正常的決定拿下這條小龍,Shy也 很快的把下路兵線帶到塔下,藉此讓他和Flame的CS依舊差不多。 有趣的是,當Frost的雙人線正在推下塔時,Flame選擇只打小兵的最後一下,精確的控住 兵線,並想盡辦法讓兵線前推的速度降到最慢,這個策略持續了很長一段時間。而當Flame 在上路控線時,Ambition、船長還有Lustboy憑藉著他們優異的清兵能力來防範Frost各種 轉換推塔還有塔殺的可能。 (圖三:http://goo.gl/aBOsLAfter Dragon, Frost moves into the middle lane in an attempt to snag further objectives and increase pressure on Blaze. However, Blaze expertly uses Spirit Fire and Hail of Arrows to clear out the waves before Frost can severely damage the turret, while Ambition and Flame farm the empty lanes. By the 7:40 mark the top lane wave finally reached Blaze’s second tower, where Flame freezes it and continues to last-hit. Ambition aggressively pushes the bottom lane in order to farm up and ensure he gets to the Blue Golem in time to receive the buff. Frost ultimately fails to destroy a turret. 吃完小龍後,Frost移到中路並開始推塔,然後做視野來增加Blaze的壓力,而Blaze聰明地 利用納瑟斯和法洛士的良好清兵能力來快速清兵防止Frost點塔,而藉著這個機會,Flame 還有Ambition正分別在上路和下路兩條空的線開心的農兵。 在大約7:40時,紫方的兵線終於到了藍方二塔下,而Flame持續控著兵線。同時Ambition快 速帶下路兵線,以確保他能農到兵然後能準時去吃藍Buff,而Frost最終還是沒能推掉塔。 (圖四:http://goo.gl/fAFbCAt 9:00, the slow push from Blaze begins in earnest in top lane. The canon minion that spawned at 8:30 arrives in Flame’s lane and gives the tiny bit of extra pushing power that will snowball the minion wave as the careful last-hitting continues. A huge amount of Frost’s potential CS has been lost due to Flame’s lane freeze at second turret, reflected when comparing Flame’ s score to Shy’s. Ambition’s empty lane farm in bottom also yields a slight lead as RapidStar spent time attempting to defend and destroy mid turret instead of taking minion waves uninhibited. 在大約9:00時,由於在8:30時砲車的到來,讓藍方兵線終於往前推進,但此時Frost已損失 大量的小兵,這從Flame和Shy大量的CS差異可以看得出來。而Ambition在下路開心的農兵 ,也讓他相較於在中路不斷防手以及推塔的RapidStar有著些微的領先。 (圖五:http://goo.gl/GNSFqBy 10:21, Flame accrues a large number of caster minions and Blaze sets up for the three lane split-push to coincide with the assault on Frost’s top turret. Helios and Captain Jack uses the excellent wave clear from Nasus and Varus to pressure middle turret, while Ambition begins to shove bottom. The CS lead on Ambition and Flame now compensates for the Dragon taken by Frost earlier, which will illustrate the Blaze’s fantastic decision to slow push once the pressure hits across all the lanes. While LustBoy probably should have stayed in middle lane to help pressure that turret, he instead rotates top to help Flame. At this point, Flame has yet to recall during the game and holds a bank of around 3,000 gold. 10:21時,Flame已經獲得了大量的CS,而Blaze也開始啟動三路分推,準備對上塔施加壓力 。Helios和船長持續用狗頭和法洛士良好的清兵能力來給中塔壓力,而同時Ambition快速 的推下塔。這時Ambition和Flame的CS領先已可大致抵銷那條小龍的經濟差距。 雖然Lustboy或許該繼續留在中路幫忙施壓,但他決定到上路幫Flame清完小兵,此時Flame 要回家時已經存了大概3000塊。 (圖六:http://goo.gl/HXF3iThe size of the minion wave coupled with Flame’s two level advantage over Shy forces Frost’s hand and they must send multiple players top to deal with the push. MadLife walks north while RapidStar teleports in to pick up first blood on LustBoy. Helios grabs Red Buff in to better punish Frost’s overcommitment to top lane while Captain Jack shoves the wave into the turret. Ambition aggressively pushes bottom, and Orianna’s wave-clear proves too much for CloudTemplar’s jungle Shen to handle. 大量的兵線以及Flame的兩等領先,讓Frost被迫要派更多人來防守上塔,而Madlife的到來 加上RapidStar的傳送拿下了首殺,此時Helios在拿紅方便推塔,而船長則把兵線帶進中塔 ,Ambition持續激進的在帶下路兵線,而球女的快速清兵迫使Cloudtemplar的慎一定要來 防守。 (圖七:http://goo.gl/RzEqTFrost takes the gold lead once more as Flame backs off, but the outer middle and inner bottom turrets take substantial damage from Helios, Captain Jack, and Ambition. Frost reacts quickly, probably because they are accustomed to Blaze’s strategy as sister teams, saving both turrets. However, the turrets are low enough after The Sixth Man that they are easily pushed down in the next few minutes. This regains the gold lead for Blaze and validates their slow-push, split-pressure tactics. They handily win the game since no single player from Frost can handle a farmed Flame solo, thereby forcing Frost to fold under Blaze’s split-push. Frost依然保有經濟領先 ,但中上路外塔和下路內塔都被削掉不少血,Frost的快速反應讓 他們分別保住了這幾座塔,或許是因為他們早已習慣姐妹隊的風格才能如此。然而塔的血 量已經夠低,讓「第六人」能夠在接下來的幾分鐘把塔推掉。 這讓Blaze順利拿回經濟領先,也讓他們的「slow push」以及紛推策略產生效果。他們最 後贏下勝利,因為沒人能在一對一中打贏Flame,迫使Frost無法應對Blaze的分推。 That’s all very nice, MonteCristo, but why is this so interesting? 1. Gold and experience distribution Frost’s decision to take Dragon distributed gold evenly to the team instead of concentrating it on specific players. As we can see, The Sixth Man allowed Blaze to catch up in global gold while concentrating the income onto Flame and Ambition. It also allowed Flame to gain a significant level advantage over Shy, which we can see in the defense of top turret where Shy is 7 while Flame is 9. Overall, since Frost failed to take a follow-up tower after Dragon, thanks both to the Varus/Nasus waveclear from Blaze and a lackluster team composition from Frost, Blaze comes out on top by using this tactic. It shows that teams should reconsider the value of Dragon when compared to careful minion wave manipulation and farming. The gold concentration on Flame in particular created a situation where he would win any duel for the remainder of the game, meaning that Frost always had to commit multiple players to stopping his split-push. While Frost was occupied with Flame, the rest of Blaze easily knocked down turrets and punished Frost’s rotations. Frost吃小龍是讓經濟平均的分給每一個成員而非特定幾個英雄。正如我們所見,這個策略 讓Blaze能在總體經濟上和Frost持平,又能把錢集中在Flame和Ambition身上。 這也讓Flame能拿到極為明顯的等級優勢,我們可以看到當Shy才7級時,Flame已經9級了。 整體來說,在Frost沒能在吃完小龍後接著拿下外塔(由於狗頭和法洛士的好清兵能力以及 Frost不佳的團隊組合),讓Blaze得以啟動這個策略。 這讓隊伍必須重新考慮小龍的價值是否值得,畢竟你可能兵線被完全控住,而集中在Flame 身上的金錢也創造了一個有利的位置,讓Frost必須要更多人來阻止Flame的分推,而當 Frost被迫去對付Flame時,Blaze就能輕易的推塔,甚至能抓到Frost移動上的失誤來給他 們懲罰。 2. The Sixth Man forces teams to play reactively It’s always a stronger tactical position to force an enemy to react to your decisions, which The Sixth Man does brilliantly. Blaze refuses to react to Frost’s Dragon attempt and instead creates a situation with a mandatory response a few minutes down the road. Even though Frost picked up First Blood and failed to lose more turrets in Blaze’s first split-push pressure, it set the tempo for the game and did sufficient damage to make the objectives fall quickly afterward. Once Flame finally purchased items, Blaze easily continued their pressure on all three of Frost’s lanes, and the pushes never stopped for the remainder of the game. Simply put, it gave Blaze total control over their opponents. 這個策略讓對方必須跟著你們的行動來移動,意味著你們拿到了主控權。Blaze拒絕去對應 Frost吃小龍的企圖,避免被他們牽著鼻子走,而是創造了一個強迫Frost必須應對他們的 機會。 雖然Frost成功的拿下首殺,也在第一波分推中保住了他們的塔,但這讓他們落入了Blaze 的節奏,也讓他們更容易失去野怪。當Flame終於出關後,Blaze就能輕鬆地在三路給對手 壓力,並不斷的推塔直到勝利。 簡單的說,這策略讓Blaze完全掌控住了對手。 3. It starves the enemy team of farm The freeze in top lane by Flame and Ambition’s fast pushing into the tower denied Frost a tremendous amount of gold and experience. Blaze’s minions died with no members of Frost to gain rewards, while Blaze held Frost’s middle lane push and at least reaped the experience by middle turret. Flame’ s patience by letting the lane push all the way back to second turret, freeze, wait for the cannon minion, and then shoving back out cost Frost over five minutes of farm in top lane. Not a single Frost CS was had in top from around the 5 minute mark, when turret went down, to after the 10 minute mark, when The Sixth Man hit Frost’s turret. Most of the gold from this wave was also lost to turret shots and not regained by Shy. Flame在上路控線以及Ambition在下路快推,讓Frost失去了大量的金錢和經驗,Blaze的小 兵不斷在沒有Frost的人的時候死掉,而當Frost在推中時,那些兵至少Blaze都有吸到經驗 。Flame很有耐心的讓兵到二塔下,等到砲車來才開始帶線,讓Frost在推掉上塔後,有約 五分鐘完全沒在上路農到兵。 Blaze is pretty good Advanced split-pushing tactics and well-constructed team compositions earned Blaze their 13 game win streak and berth into the Champions Spring final. Their impressive tactics and calculated decisions show a level of play rivaled by few teams in the world right now. CJ Blaze frequently plays from an early deficit, allowing their enemies to gain a temporary upper hand while they set their sights on map control and pressure. Thanks to Chaox for chatting with me and helping me with the analysis for this piece! 進階的分推策略和完美設計的團隊組合讓Blaze拿下13連勝並殺進春季賽決賽。他們令人印 象深刻的策略以及精密計算的決定展現了他們世界頂級隊伍的實力。 他們經常在前期稍為逆風,讓對手獲得暫時的領先,但他們著眼在地圖的控制以及兵線壓 力,來為中後期的比賽作準備。 也特別謝謝Chaox和我一同討論,並協助完成這篇分析! -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 123.240.7.223

06/14 23:02, , 1F
先推再看
06/14 23:02, 1F

06/14 23:02, , 2F
06/14 23:02, 2F

06/14 23:04, , 3F
推 希望TESL也能越來越好
06/14 23:04, 3F

06/14 23:06, , 4F
想到去年7月左右好像也看過blaze的一堆造神...
06/14 23:06, 4F

06/14 23:07, , 5F
那篇文章有點忘記了 但是有點太誇張化
06/14 23:07, 5F

06/14 23:08, , 6F
不過現在的blaze和韓國各戰隊所表現的的確是領先全球
06/14 23:08, 6F

06/14 23:08, , 7F
感謝翻譯 我原本想翻 還好有看到這篇xD
06/14 23:08, 7F

06/14 23:10, , 8F
那篇文板上好像還找得到
06/14 23:10, 8F

06/14 23:12, , 9F
大好文阿!,看一半就趕緊先來推
06/14 23:12, 9F

06/14 23:12, , 10F
囧....看不太懂,等明天睡醒重新看看
06/14 23:12, 10F

06/14 23:13, , 11F
3Q 好聞
06/14 23:13, 11F

06/14 23:13, , 12F
06/14 23:13, 12F

06/14 23:14, , 13F
其實跟M5一開始說的應對韓國流打法一樣
06/14 23:14, 13F

06/14 23:14, , 14F
只是BLAZE執行的很好
06/14 23:14, 14F

06/14 23:16, , 15F
在Frost沒能在吃完小龍後接著拿下小龍<--塔??
06/14 23:16, 15F

06/14 23:16, , 16F
洩洩翻譯
06/14 23:16, 16F

06/14 23:18, , 17F
看一半先推
06/14 23:18, 17F

06/14 23:18, , 18F
看起來超屌
06/14 23:18, 18F
※ 編輯: thid5335 來自: 123.240.7.223 (06/14 23:19)

06/14 23:19, , 19F
這不就是速推流流行前的各路農法嗎
06/14 23:19, 19F

06/14 23:19, , 20F
感謝
06/14 23:19, 20F

06/14 23:19, , 21F
就是如果對方是速推 那我方就是讓carry去單人線肥
06/14 23:19, 21F

06/14 23:19, , 22F
簡單的說就是知道如何選角以及掌握好的時機
06/14 23:19, 22F

06/14 23:20, , 23F
來讓對方速推時沒辦法滾到雪球或侵入野區吧
06/14 23:20, 23F

06/14 23:21, , 24F
重點還是在進退的時機以及兵線的控制
06/14 23:21, 24F

06/14 23:21, , 25F
因為速推塔經濟是平均分攤 而且速推要集結3~5人
06/14 23:21, 25F

06/14 23:21, , 26F
像是先掉外塔的一線控兵線 先推掉的塔的那一線快速帶
06/14 23:21, 26F

06/14 23:21, , 27F
這時我方只要有2~3隻快速清兵的角色去守塔
06/14 23:21, 27F

06/14 23:22, , 28F
簡單來說就是能夠在不被對方把雪球滾大的情況下
06/14 23:22, 28F

06/14 23:22, , 29F
把經濟集中給CARRY
06/14 23:22, 29F

06/14 23:22, , 30F
然後上路有著大量經驗和CS優勢 分推時對方需要更多人
06/14 23:22, 30F

06/14 23:22, , 31F
就會造成在單人線的carry可以一直農的情形
06/14 23:22, 31F

06/14 23:23, , 32F
去進行防守 進而推更多塔OR開始滾雪球
06/14 23:23, 32F

06/14 23:26, , 33F
推推 值得學習
06/14 23:26, 33F

06/14 23:27, , 34F
希望叉燒可以看到這篇 要抗衡韓國 戰術面絕不能輸
06/14 23:27, 34F

06/14 23:31, , 35F
看完幾個重點:負責守塔的要有超強洗兵技
06/14 23:31, 35F

06/14 23:31, , 36F
找到了#1G8Xei9I這篇去年8月 當初看也是頗神
06/14 23:31, 36F

06/14 23:32, , 37F
砲車來以前控線放小龍 把經濟給中上carry
06/14 23:32, 37F

06/14 23:32, , 38F
的確就是限制了選的角色 沒洗兵技這就沒用了
06/14 23:32, 38F

06/14 23:33, , 39F
原來從前CLG不喜歡吃小龍就是早看穿了這點!
06/14 23:33, 39F

06/14 23:33, , 40F
不過不得不說他們在戰術方面的想法真的頗猛
06/14 23:33, 40F

06/14 23:45, , 41F
這是dota allstar 8年以前人人懂的基本觀念
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06/14 23:46, , 42F
但是LOL塔太強導致效果不夠明顯
06/14 23:46, 42F

06/14 23:47, , 43F
恩 一個很不明顯的戰術 拿到十幾連勝 ?
06/14 23:47, 43F

06/14 23:48, , 44F
明不明顯跟有不有用是兩回事
06/14 23:48, 44F

06/14 23:50, , 45F
韓國的特色本來就不是開發戰術 而是把戰術用到完美
06/14 23:50, 45F

06/14 23:50, , 46F
從SC到WC3到SCII皆是如此
06/14 23:50, 46F

06/14 23:50, , 47F
美國是開發戰術 外加綜藝 哈哈
06/14 23:50, 47F

06/15 00:04, , 48F
推推 主播也好有心
06/15 00:04, 48F

06/15 00:06, , 49F
這觀念不稀奇 之前連GPL播報都講過換路推塔或控線
06/15 00:06, 49F

06/15 00:07, , 50F
但blaze執行得很漂亮 也有選腳上的配合 以及後面出關
06/15 00:07, 50F

06/15 00:08, , 51F
的發揮 事實上他們前期也承擔落後frost的被滾風險
06/15 00:08, 51F

06/15 00:10, , 52F
另外寫這種文章本來就是互相交流 算是人家網站的內容
06/15 00:10, 52F

06/15 00:10, , 53F
"知道"跟"實踐"是兩個完全不同的概念
06/15 00:10, 53F

06/15 00:11, , 54F
不然你看完菁英寫的guide你不就也上菁英了?
06/15 00:11, 54F

06/15 00:18, , 55F
好文推不多到是一堆丁PA廢文在板上
06/15 00:18, 55F

06/15 00:18, , 56F
我比較好奇的是Frost沒有嘗試入侵野區或強逼2塔嗎0.0
06/15 00:18, 56F

06/15 00:19, , 57F
他在推中的時間應該會有一個buff?
06/15 00:19, 57F

06/15 00:20, , 58F
再推
06/15 00:20, 58F

06/15 00:20, , 59F
對岸的主播跟歐美的主播很多都會寫這種分析文
06/15 00:20, 59F

06/15 00:23, , 60F
這...不推不行...
06/15 00:23, 60F

06/15 00:26, , 61F
韓國恐怖的點就是連小兵這種東西都能掌握自如
06/15 00:26, 61F

06/15 00:38, , 62F
有點看不懂,總之就是以快速輕兵的雙人組+JG來對抗速
06/15 00:38, 62F

06/15 00:39, , 63F
推,然後另外兩個carry穩農控線,是嗎?
06/15 00:39, 63F

06/15 00:40, , 64F
06/15 00:40, 64F

06/15 00:40, , 65F
沒錯
06/15 00:40, 65F

06/15 01:28, , 66F
連兵線都計算下去真的很恐怖 WOW
06/15 01:28, 66F

06/15 02:07, , 67F
好文
06/15 02:07, 67F

06/15 06:07, , 68F
韓國注重小兵的流動性 這是推塔遊戲~ 有小兵才能推塔
06/15 06:07, 68F

06/15 09:12, , 69F
蠻不稀奇但是他有完整規畫吧 從選角就想好
06/15 09:12, 69F

06/15 09:12, , 70F
像是TPA以往喜歡打偏後期團戰的風格那選角時就該多
06/15 09:12, 70F

06/15 09:12, , 71F
想要如何應對速推
06/15 09:12, 71F

06/15 09:13, , 72F
還有就是把小兵當作"第六人"的概念
06/15 09:13, 72F

06/15 16:45, , 73F
但是這種戰術很怕侵入野區+硬CCgank吧?
06/15 16:45, 73F
文章代碼(AID): #1Hkp1bzK (LoL)