[文法] 文法歧義一問

看板Eng-Class作者 (體業具為從屬依呼)時間11年前 (2014/12/04 21:04), 11年前編輯推噓3(3023)
留言26則, 4人參與, 最新討論串1/1
At the funeral there were a dozen women who wept passionate tears, including the wife of the janitor who had murdered him 這句話顯然是暗示話中的him相當有女人緣且風流, 故而,就常理判斷,把him謀殺掉的應該就是這位門房(janitor), 似乎是因為門房的妻子與him有著不正當的關係。 但,如果純就文法上來說, 是不是也有另一種解釋的可能: the wife ( modifier ) who had murdered him 換言之,說成是那位門房的妻子殺了him也通? 這裡我是指純就文法上的可能性而言,先不管是否合常識。 (其實也不無可能是另一種情殺:該女因嫉妒而殺該男? 當然兇手是否還能到葬禮上灑淚那又得另有一番解釋了。) 再, 這段文字因為只是作者閒閒提及的一個插曲, 所以沒有前後文了。 多少只是當作笑料隨手一筆而已。 而我的問題主要也只是對文法上的可能性發問。 感謝了! -- Looked at from afar, appears to be hopelessly wrong may contain excellent ingredients and that its excellence may remain unrevealed to those guided by strict methodological rules. Always remember that my examples do not criticize science; they criticize those who want to subject it to their simpleminded rules …… Paul Feyerabend -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 111.248.109.61 ※ 文章網址: http://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Eng-Class/M.1417698288.A.819.html

12/04 22:17, , 1F
我以為那個him就是門房 也就是門房之妻殺了門房 又
12/04 22:17, 1F

12/04 22:18, , 2F
在他的喪禮上哭泣
12/04 22:18, 2F
這樣看來單純這句話又有第三種可能解釋!真妙!XD 雖說就他前文來看這個解釋似乎不太對啦。似乎…… (我說沒前後文是錯的,抱歉!他有前文,但後面不再提這故事了。) 前文: There was another chap, a Hindu named Guptal…… One day he was found naked, his throat slit from ear to ear, and beside him on the bed was his flute. 看起來這種敘事模式似乎這位被殺的 Guptal 應該不是那位門房? 不過確實,若單就文法解釋,單就我先前所引出的該句而言, 說是門房的妻子殺了門房似乎也通。 這句還真是充滿 ambiguities 的妙句! ※ 編輯: khara (1.160.9.157), 12/04/2014 23:13:04

12/05 03:50, , 3F
如"常識"不單指劇情、上下文而包括廣泛的現實世界基本通則
12/05 03:50, 3F

12/05 03:52, , 4F
和讀者從這些通則得到的語感語義的話,wife不會是先行詞,
12/05 03:52, 4F

12/05 03:54, , 5F
除非一個人通常有多個wife,需要辨別"wives中殺人的那個"
12/05 03:54, 5F

12/05 04:04, , 6F
謝謝樓上 這樣看下來是門房殺了Guptal沒錯
12/05 04:04, 6F
原來如此! 先行詞的距離還是佔了一個因素:janitor 畢竟直接接著後方子句。 感謝 l10nel 板友! :) ※ 編輯: khara (1.160.32.216), 12/05/2014 04:29:53

12/05 04:30, , 7F
單從那句看圖(句子)說故事的話,那麼: Janitor(Willie)
12/05 04:30, 7F

12/05 04:30, , 8F
的 wife(Mary)跟校長(Seymour / him)勾勾纏。Mary發現
12/05 04:30, 8F

12/05 04:30, , 9F
Seymour也跟Edna纏纏勾,於是Mary由愛生恨殺了Seymour。
12/05 04:30, 9F

12/05 04:30, , 10F
Mary也去參加Seymour的葬禮,Mary雖然很恨,畢竟人都死了
12/05 04:30, 10F

12/05 04:30, , 11F
。Mary仍是愛著Seymour,於是也跟著Seymour的其他情婦留
12/05 04:30, 11F

12/05 04:30, , 12F
下眼淚....
12/05 04:30, 12F

12/05 04:30, , 13F
然後回頭讀你的句子。這時候的"the wife"就是who子句修飾
12/05 04:30, 13F

12/05 04:31, , 14F
的先行詞。特別是從來就只是用"the wife of the janitor"
12/05 04:31, 14F

12/05 04:31, , 15F
來指Mary這人而從沒有清楚寫出Mary這名字的時候
12/05 04:31, 15F

12/05 04:33, , 16F
(who子句也可以用來進一步交待訊息,這時候就不是單純的
12/05 04:33, 16F

12/05 04:33, , 17F
"限定")
12/05 04:33, 17F

12/05 05:08, , 18F
類似這句子: "I was I who told you" (並不是"I"有很多個
12/05 05:08, 18F

12/05 05:08, , 19F
,所以才需要這個who限定子句來特別限定某一個特定的I)
12/05 05:08, 19F
也感謝 dunchee的說明!:) 雖說原書並非偵探小說, 不過這一小段還真有發展成偵探小說的潛力啊!XDDD

12/05 05:10, , 20F
我想再說清楚一點,避免你有"距離近的字就是先行詞"的觀念,
12/05 05:10, 20F

12/05 05:14, , 21F
絕對不是這樣,沒那麼簡單。這裡若單獨討論以下這個形態:
12/05 05:14, 21F

12/05 05:16, , 22F
the [指人的名詞1] of the [指人的名詞2] +[可指人的關代]
12/05 05:16, 22F

12/05 05:17, , 23F
那麼先行詞會是第二個指人的、距離剛好較近的名詞,到現在
12/05 05:17, 23F

12/05 05:21, , 24F
還沒想到找到例外的實例。出了這個形態那又另當別論,你可
12/05 05:21, 24F

12/05 05:22, , 25F
參考此板標題是"限定性關係從句所描述的對象"那個討論串。
12/05 05:22, 25F
所以這句似乎還真的是複雜…… 關係子句不簡單啊! 我再看看關於限定性關係的討論串。 :) ※ 編輯: khara (1.160.27.27), 12/05/2014 07:38:42

12/05 19:59, , 26F
這時就要請出上下文呀。
12/05 19:59, 26F
全部相關段落就這樣囉: There was another chap, a Hindu named Guptal. He was not only a model of good behavior — he was a saint. He had a passion for the flute which he played all by himself in his miserable little room. One day he was found naked, his throat slit from ear to ear, and beside him on the bed was his flute. At the funeral there were a dozen women who wept passionate tears, including the wife of the janitor who had murdered him. I could write a book about this young man who was the gentlest and the holiest man I ever met, who had never offended anybody and never taken anything from anybody, but who had made the cardinal mistake of coming to America to spread peace and love. 這裡作者回憶這個 Guptal先生,用的語調是戲謔的。(雖說裝得好像很認真的樣子) 大概寫時也只是信手寫來? 倒是搜尋 relative clause attachment ambiguity 找到這篇 http://ppt.cc/~4d9 看得不是很懂,但他的說法似乎是: 當 NP1 與 NP2 都有可能被關係子句修飾時, 似乎是英語母語者傾向認同修飾對象是後方那個? 但若文法關係清楚,例如單複數關係很清楚,則其實未必與前後方有關: 他後面舉的例: N1 Attachment: The guide described the painting of the castles that was owned by the tycoon. 導遊敘述了那位大亨所擁有的那幅關於那些城堡的畫。 畫是單數,與 that 一致,所以被擁有的必然是畫。 結果就是一幅畫裡畫了大亨擁有的諸多城堡。 N2 Attachment: The guide described the paintings of the castle that was owned by the tycoon. 導遊敘述了那些關於那位大亨所擁有的那座城堡的畫。 城堡是單數,與 that 一致,所以被擁有的必然是城堡。 結果就是一堆畫都在畫大亨擁有的一座城堡。 這兩個例子看來,似乎當其他文法關係清楚時, 後方的關係子句(這裡是限定,似非限定亦可?)也未必得修飾 NP2? 這裡 http://ppt.cc/w6vi The friends of the participants who were told to order soft drinks 是個限定關係子句的例子。 但這裡 http://ppt.cc/5Ivz The animal ate the father of Jay, who was an engineer. 是個非限定關係子句的例子。 看似這種情況英語話者都傾向是修飾後者? (如果回答者是英語話者的話……) 真是複雜啊! ※ 編輯: khara (1.163.40.110), 12/05/2014 22:10:08 ※ 編輯: khara (1.163.40.110), 12/05/2014 22:11:38
文章代碼(AID): #1KW5lmWP (Eng-Class)