[情報] FTR翻譯 - 內幕:WG對砲車的想法part.1

看板Wargaming作者 (雪鳳)時間9年前 (2014/09/03 23:05), 編輯推噓29(29推 0噓 63→)
留言92則, 31人參與, 最新討論串1/1
連結：http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/09/03/insider-wargaming-thoughts-on-arty/ Hello everyone, a lot of people think that Wargaming doesn’t realize problems and balance – but they do. Thanks to the “Insider”, who in the past provided us with reliable info, a copy of internal WG chain e-mail found its way to my mailbox. Here it is – I deleted the names of course as per request of the Insider, but I do know them and I confirmed they are legit. 大家好 很多人認為WG不了解(WOT存在的)問題與平衡;其實他們知道 感謝那個以前提供我們可信消息的"藏鏡人" 我的信箱內收到一連串WG內部的信件的副本 內容如後續 我依照藏鏡人的要求刪除名字 我不認識他們但是我確定不是唬爛的 There is a part where SerB is raging – in Russian. Some of the developers write in Russian as well, the translation however is not mine, it’s the Insider who translated it as such and I dare not correct it. The chain mail involves several mid- to low-tier developers and SerB and it concerns everyone ’s favourite topic, artillery. 這是SerB震怒的部分(使用俄羅斯文寫的) 一些開發者也使用俄羅斯文(寫MAIL) 不是我(SS)翻譯的 藏鏡人翻譯而我沒有加油添醋 一連串信件牽涉幾位低階/中階的開發者與SerB 且有關於大家最感興趣的主題:砲車 The first part of the mail conversation takes place many months ago around the time before the Great Arty Nerf (8.6 was it? Can’t remember). The chain mail structure was modified by me to resemble a conversation (I threw out the “re: re: re:” etc) 第一部分的信件內容大概是在"砲車末日"幾個月前 信件的格式我修改成對話的形式 Developer 1 (RU): So, what are the Data feeds on the “Arty problem? 開發者 1 (RU): 所以 砲車的數據有甚麼問題嗎 Developer 2 (RU): What arty problems? 開發者 2 (RU): 甚麼砲車問題? Developer 3 (RU): Artywhiners. 開發者 3 (RU): 砲車抱怨者 Developer 4 (RU): posts some artillery statistics and copies of whine on forums 開發者 4 (RU): 貼了一些砲車數據和一些論壇的抱怨 Developer 1 (RU): *reacting on Developer 4* Is this even correct? 開發者 1 (RU): {回應開發者4}這是對的嗎? Developer 5 (RU): Afraid so 95% players play arty, 14 clusters accounted in EU/US/RU most vocal ones are forum speakers estimated not even 5% of them are actually accounted for, most problematics come from the US cluster 開發者 5 (RU): 有玩炮車的玩家恐怕高達95% 歐美地區的14個伺服器中整天在論壇上哭哭的人恐怕連5%都不到 而且絕大多數的抱怨聲浪都來自US Developer 5 (RU): *posts US server artillery statistics* 開發者 5 (RU): {貼出US伺服器砲車數據} Developer 2 (RU): so, why are we even considering a nerf? since when this is a democracy? 開發者 2 (RU): 所以為什麼我們會考慮NERF? 什麼時候變成玩家決定了? Developer 6 (US): There are obviously some artillery that needs a remodel on their damage physics, SU-26 is taken for granted the French bagels too.. but all? Most artillery will become nearly unplayable unless we fix the Sigma, whats the word of kruta? (SS: kruta = Storm) 開發者 6 (US): 很明顯的某些砲車需要重新調整他們的傷害模型 理所當然SU-26要調 法國砲車也是 但是全部調整? 除非我們調整落點分布不然大部分的砲車會變成廢鐵 storm的意思是? Developer 2 (RU): in English: *REMOVES BRAIN* 開發者 2 (RU): {使用英文} 該砍的是(那些抱怨者的)腦袋 Several weeks later… Wargaming is working on artillery nerf 數周後 WG開始處理砲車NERF的事情 Developer 5 (RU):“Please send the supertesters 116 the new feed on the damage model, we estimated a 25% and upwards decrease on all artillery model damage, can it be confirmed?” 開發者 5 (RU): 請給我超測人員關於傷害模型的意見回饋 我們估計砲車的傷害將會降低25%以上 這樣對嗎? Developer 4 (RU):“Confirmed, playing Obj 212 makes onions cry, how is this even fun now?” 開發者 4 (RU): 沒錯 玩Obj.212根本內牛滿面 這樣是哪裡好玩 A few mails later, developers argue about the artillery nerf and wild SerB appears in what is allegedly one of his most famous tirades amongst the developers. The translation is the Insider’s, I left it as it is (the picture was a part of the e-mail apparently). Please pay attention to what SerB predicts. 幾封信件後 當開發者們爭論砲車NERF時而野生的SerB出現了 這封信據說是他與開發者們交流中最出名的一封長信: Sergey Burkatovskiy *redacted*@wargaming.net 寄件人:SerB >>>Attention 注意 >Remember this is a business Model, not a democracy, despite what players whine about over 90% of the database owns artillery at low to mid tiers and 83% owns an end-tier piece, this is contrary to the actual statistics of “ arty sucks” and hear, these little krayfish dont even know what they want, all they want is win, win, win, and when they dont win they blame anything that can be accounted for, once we Nerf artillery, Tank Destroyers will come, they are blind and only see what they have the most immediate benefit of their wins, and then we will have a Tank Destroyer problem – too strong to be maintained in check! and the cycle will repeat, the new statistics are meant to define less damage per game as solution and it seems to be working. and noting else will be ever moved from now on unless a new model is approached. we must focus on what statistics form server tells not some Arty vocals, artillery is a piece of the game that is instrumental to our models, it will NEVER be removed and even if kraulf was to bring a second homecoming id rather make him drink piss. 請記得這是商業經營 不搞民主那一套 就算這些人宣稱:"有90%的玩家有中低階炮車 83%的玩家有中高階炮車" (砲車太強)不符合實際情況 聽! 這些哭哭人根本不知道他們真正需要的是什麼 他們想要的只有贏、贏和贏以及贏還有贏 當他們沒有贏他們就會開始砲轟所有可以砲轟的目標 一旦我們NERF砲車 那麼下一個就會是TD 這些人根本就是瞎子 只看的到眼前與自己勝利有關的利益 所以下一個問題就會是TD (沒砲車壓制導致TD)太強以至於很難被持續開光(給砲車打)然後惡性循環 新的數據是以降低每場(砲車)的傷害輸出來做為解決辦法 而看起來似乎有用 除非有新的遊戲機制不然任何車種都不會從遊戲中拔掉 我們應該專注在伺服器的數據呈現了甚麼而不是那些抱怨者 砲車是遊戲的一環 不爽不要玩 >Map wars statistics shows use of SPG just fine, the “pros” may whine on it on forums, but are held accountable for using it as well to maintain their map provinces. their logic is wicked. Numbers dont lie 依照地圖的數據顯示砲車很正常 (某些)睪丸可能會在論壇上抱怨但CW又用來防守領地用的很爽 這些人的邏輯根本有病 但數據終究不會說謊 >Start ignoring at your discretions, we ignore artillery talks form now on, focus on what the numbers tell us, they never lie, whenever the model increments from win ratio of 50.1 its candidate to review, and nothing else. 現在起忽略你的個人意見、關於砲車的討論 數字會說話 請專注在這上面 *譯:後面關於他們怎麼協調勝率與調整之類的就沒翻了 >The priority of the review is now on the low, some artillery will be an all time low winrate due the changes, review and fix so their roles adapt properly in line with the win ratio, dont move damage expectations per battle nor accuracy with the new model. 檢視的優先度現在在"低"的位置 某些砲車將會因為NERF變得很爛(勝率低) 檢視並修正他們的腳色定位好讓他們能恢復到該有的勝率水平 不要變更新(傷害)模型每場戰鬥的傷害期望值或準度 >Where is my drink SerB:林北的酒哩? 接下來是SerB喝酒的圖片分隔了下一段 等高手接手或明天再來 再翻下去考試要GG了Orz -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 112.104.133.116 ※ 文章網址: http://www.ptt.cc/bbs/WoT/M.1409756708.A.C81.html
推
09/03 23:24, , 1F
搞不懂意思，他們認為是那些玩家自己問題,卻砍SPG??
09/03 23:24, 1F
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09/03 23:25, , 2F
少了SPG，TD是真的可以肆無忌憚的黑槍不怕被人發現
09/03 23:25, 2F
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09/03 23:26, , 3F
被TD黑到目前就只有躲,然後偷偷伸出去,看能不能看到
09/03 23:26, 3F
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09/03 23:29, , 4F
目前看起來就是SERB反對因為玩家嘴泡而修改車子
09/03 23:29, 4F
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09/03 23:29, , 5F
真正有意義的哭哭太少了 大部分人只是因為自己輸 才
09/03 23:29, 5F
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09/03 23:30, , 6F
出來哭哭
09/03 23:30, 6F
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09/03 23:30, , 7F
打輸了會自我檢討的有幾個?說真的
09/03 23:30, 7F
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09/03 23:31, , 8F
很多人該場明明打很爛還敢在那邊抱怨有的沒的
09/03 23:31, 8F
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09/03 23:32, , 9F
把自己的角色與輸出都有做到,但還是輸,這樣就算了
09/03 23:32, 9F
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09/03 23:33, , 10F
Surb根本先知～精準預言
09/03 23:33, 10F
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09/03 23:37, , 11F
SERB只會自己嘴泡而修改車子zzz
09/03 23:37, 11F
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09/03 23:43, , 12F
212A很強啊！為什麼會玩得內牛滿面？
09/03 23:43, 12F
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09/03 23:45, , 13F
因為原本的212好爽...
09/03 23:45, 13F
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09/03 23:47, , 14F
因為原本212很爽無誤 精準 傷害高 爆風大 縮圈快
09/03 23:47, 14F
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09/03 23:48, , 15F
速度也沒校車那麼慘 現在... 沒特色 完全沒有
09/03 23:48, 15F
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09/03 23:48, , 16F
上面說的傷害高爆風大是指那個準度上相對來說
09/03 23:48, 16F
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09/03 23:52, , 17F
原本212縮圈完幾乎必定紅中 S51也是
09/03 23:52, 17F
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09/03 23:53, , 18F
準到躲掩體一定要向內多跑2~4米 不然準備吃爆風
09/03 23:53, 18F
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09/04 00:00, , 19F
我還是覺得Dev根本沒搞懂為什麼Arty=cancer
09/04 00:00, 19F
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09/04 00:06, , 20F
現在S-51有快瞄+BIA(不能裝風扇),縮完圈打完全不動
09/04 00:06, 20F
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09/04 00:06, , 21F
還會歪到旁邊去=_=",裝填跟瞄準那麼久辛酸的
09/04 00:06, 21F
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09/04 00:53, , 22F
所以說一堆自以為高玩老愛murmur應該怎麼改版根本..
09/04 00:53, 22F
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09/04 00:55, , 23F
WG顯然只會看數據或是針對大有問題的單車來動刀
09/04 00:55, 23F
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09/04 00:55, , 24F
批評遊戲機制什麼的講真的Serb說的完全沒錯
09/04 00:55, 24F
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09/04 01:44, , 25F
可是砲車還是給砍了
09/04 01:44, 25F
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09/04 01:52, , 26F
原來我的SU-26就是這樣被NERF了
09/04 01:52, 26F
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09/04 02:19, , 27F
Garbad與他怒怒的夥伴們!?
09/04 02:19, 27F
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09/04 05:34, , 28F
唉，所以機車玩家推動遊戲公司到Arty的盡頭，公司
09/04 05:34, 28F
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09/04 05:35, , 29F
堅持底線但底線就是Arty不會被砍因為這輪接龍會砍到
09/04 05:35, 29F
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09/04 05:36, , 30F
遊戲的盡頭而大概砍不到夠坎的Arty，我的法砲啊...
09/04 05:36, 30F
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09/04 07:23, , 31F
正在開M12的我不知道要不要繼續走下去...
09/04 07:23, 31F
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09/04 07:25, , 32F
遊戲公司只剩下NERF手段的時候就是到頂端了
09/04 07:25, 32F
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09/04 07:49, , 33F
還我SU-26!!!!!!
09/04 07:49, 33F
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09/04 07:59, , 34F
我是沒有玩過以前的砲車，但是我覺得現階段的砲車
09/04 07:59, 34F
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09/04 07:59, , 35F
還是有一定的強度啊，而且亞服這麼多龜兒子，砲車已
09/04 07:59, 35F
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09/04 07:59, , 36F
經相對好生存了吧…
09/04 07:59, 36F
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09/04 08:10, , 37F
法國AMX13F突發性歪砲讓人很困擾
09/04 08:10, 37F
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09/04 08:30, , 38F
亞服這麼多龜兒子 敵人在砲車旁抵死不幫的
09/04 08:30, 38F
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09/04 08:31, , 39F
法國6階砲就受不了歪砲了 7階大概會哭出來
09/04 08:31, 39F
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09/04 08:40, , 40F
奇怪SerB講的不就是後來發生的事? 那當初幹嘛nerf
09/04 08:40, 40F
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09/04 08:50, , 41F
colin，我的意思是他準的時候很準，偶而前後飄
09/04 08:50, 41F
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09/04 08:50, , 42F
只是有時候會連續幾場前後左右亂飄...很恐怖
09/04 08:50, 42F
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09/04 08:52, , 43F
還是沒有比玩朋友的S-51恐怖...尚可接受的範圍
09/04 08:52, 43F
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09/04 09:10, , 44F
可以從SB的語氣中發現，這封信的時間點是在SPG被砍
09/04 09:10, 44F
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09/04 09:11, , 45F
完後才寫的，算是單純的發牢騷，所以他要求大家以後
09/04 09:11, 45F
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09/04 09:13, , 46F
忽略玩家的抱怨，只專注在數據，畢竟數據會說話
09/04 09:13, 46F
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09/04 09:30, , 47F
回korsg:美系SPG算很不錯的 M12中規中矩 M40/43和九
09/04 09:30, 47F
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09/04 09:30, , 48F
階M53/55都是同階神車 T92就純粹是爽度 之後會buff
09/04 09:30, 48F
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09/04 09:30, , 49F
一下車體數據但炮應該就那樣了
09/04 09:30, 49F
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09/04 09:45, , 50F
HT開久總會想用sky cancer報復社會，看來可以安心拉
09/04 09:45, 50F
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09/04 09:46, , 51F
最近專心走AA路線一整個就很歡樂~
09/04 09:46, 51F
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09/04 11:24, , 52F
13F3很穩定了 155 50 更飄...
09/04 11:24, 52F
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09/04 11:43, , 53F
SerB:你知道你們玩的是什麼遊戲嗎?免費遊戲啦!不爽
09/04 11:43, 53F
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09/04 11:43, , 54F
要玩，贛!
09/04 11:43, 54F
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09/04 11:45, , 55F
正在FV207的我表示哭哭
09/04 11:45, 55F
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09/04 11:56, , 56F
所以15550買到現在已經用FE全頂了還沒動力開出去啊
09/04 11:56, 56F
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09/04 11:57, , 57F
我升七階惹好嗎？七階CD比六階短我都要哭出來了。
09/04 11:57, 57F
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09/04 11:57, , 58F
玩過的不說，歪砲是遊戲的一部分，是SPG的大部分所
09/04 11:57, 58F
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09/04 11:57, , 59F
以不會因為歪砲哭好ㄇ，怕歪怎麼還會在大nerf後繼
09/04 11:57, 59F
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09/04 11:57, , 60F
續玩？我只怕還沒升十階砲車就砍掉了怎麼辦，玩個
09/04 11:57, 60F
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09/04 11:57, , 61F
玩家會投票砍掉的車線要M也不是這樣……
09/04 11:57, 61F
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09/04 12:03, , 62F
重點是155 50很醜...看到就跳過-.-"
09/04 12:03, 62F
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09/04 12:24, , 63F
砲車不可能砍
09/04 12:24, 63F
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09/04 14:18, , 64F
法國砲車在現在的生態已經很好混了 至少裝填縮圈快
09/04 14:18, 64F
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09/04 16:56, , 65F
剛好WoTLabs有幾篇狀態/主題討論這篇文章XD
09/04 16:56, 65F
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09/04 17:33, , 66F
155.50那管炮的傷害跟準度在他的分房很容易吃大便
09/04 17:33, 66F
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09/04 17:37, , 67F
而且他的射界也不像上一台那麼大 有時候整場砸不到
09/04 17:37, 67F
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09/04 17:38, , 68F
半台車算是很平常的事orz
09/04 17:38, 68F
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09/05 01:31, , 69F
玩了兩年多的老玩家,我是真心覺得以前砲車真的太準
09/05 01:31, 69F
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09/05 01:32, , 70F
太多了,任何車一但在亮燈狀態不論是在狗戰中還是伸
09/05 01:32, 70F
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09/05 01:33, , 71F
縮砲中都要立刻以迴避arty攻擊為第一優先,對於整個
09/05 01:33, 71F
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09/05 01:34, , 72F
控車節奏有非常大的影響,而且輸贏幾乎就看哪邊有較
09/05 01:34, 72F
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09/05 01:35, , 73F
好的LT和arty,其他車種老實說還真的沒那麼重要= =
09/05 01:35, 73F
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09/05 01:37, , 74F
那時開MAUS,E100,T95等又大又慢的車遇到平原地圖真
09/05 01:37, 74F
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09/05 01:39, , 75F
的會有想直接自殺的衝動,一被點亮就準備回車庫了
09/05 01:39, 75F
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09/05 07:06, , 76F
以前還有兩邊各12台SPG的場子，整個不知道怎麼打...
09/05 07:06, 76F
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09/05 14:48, , 77F
所以當初SPG nerf之後 Serb在那半年又一直強調
09/05 14:48, 77F
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09/05 14:48, , 78F
TD不會nerf是怎樣 ?
09/05 14:48, 78F
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09/05 14:49, , 79F
另外Serb一直干預KV1S的平衡就不想多講了
09/05 14:49, 79F
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09/05 15:54, , 80F
nana 原因在後半部文章 td增加了40%但是勝率並沒
09/05 15:54, 80F
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09/05 15:54, , 81F
有因此提高 所以他們認為主因還是在那些抱怨者上
09/05 15:54, 81F
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09/05 15:54, , 82F
至於真正砍的原因我也很好奇…
09/05 15:54, 82F
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09/05 16:23, , 83F
敢砍不敢挨罵
09/05 16:23, 83F
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09/06 10:20, , 84F
8.6之後 很多人沒防砲觀念 有人直接停在空地上
09/06 10:20, 84F
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09/06 10:21, , 85F
或是被點亮還繼續龜點 砲車不打你打誰?
09/06 10:21, 85F
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09/06 10:25, , 86F
是說 155 50會歪嗎? 我開得還蠻愉快的
09/06 10:25, 86F
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09/06 10:28, , 87F
而法砲的傷害我已經看開了 300是常態 破500很高興
09/06 10:28, 87F
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09/06 10:43, , 88F
Lorr. 155 50兩根砲都會歪...頂砲還是下一階Lorr.
09/06 10:43, 88F
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09/06 10:43, , 89F
155 51的白板砲...Orz
09/06 10:43, 89F
推
09/07 07:23, , 90F
155.50砲很會歪 有時候對方停在原地給你打都還不一
09/07 07:23, 90F
→
09/07 07:24, , 91F
定打得到.. 155.50這台的優點應該是他的速度吧..XD
09/07 07:24, 91F
推
09/07 21:09, , 92F
很會歪? S-51表示:
09/07 21:09, 92F
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文章代碼(AID): #1K1ouao1 (Wargaming)