[新聞] 中微子實驗忘記GPS誤差

看板Physics作者 (Wakka)時間14年前 (2011/10/17 20:58), 編輯推噓26(26014)
留言40則, 20人參與, 最新討論串1/1
Don't fire up your spaceship's FTL drive just yet, folks. Those neutrinos that CERN scientists thought they saw traveling faster than the speed of light a few weeks ago look like they may have only been moving at close to light speed. Last month, a team of international researchers shocked the scientific world with the news that particles they had been firing for several years from the CERN particle accelerator in Switzerland at detectors at the OPERA facility in Gran Sasso, Italy placed about 450 miles away appeared to be arriving at their destination faster than the time it would take light to get there. The particles, traveling through air, water, and rock, shouldn't have hit the Gran Sasso detectors sooner than about 2.4 thousandths of a second after being fired, which is the time it would take light to travel the distance between the two points. Yet the CERN researchers reported that their neutrinos were getting to the target 64 nanoseconds faster—meaning that they were traveling faster than light, supposedly impossible according to the Theory of Special Relativity. Now other scientists say that a failure to fully account for the effects of relativity is what caused the original researchers to supposedly mis-measure the time it was taking the neutrinos to travel using a GPS satellite, despite the CERN team saying they had factored relativity into their calculations. A new paper by Dutch researcher Ronald A.J. van Elburg lays out the case that the GPS satellite measuring the neutrinos' movements was also moving relative to the CERN and OPERA facilities as it orbited the Earth. Briefly, van Elburg asserts that the effects of relativity as they pertain to the GPS satellite's measurements require two corrections to the perceived time of travel. Lo and behold, it turns out that applying that double correction shaves 64 nanoseconds off the neutrinos' travel time, according to van Elburg, "[t]hus bringing the apparent velocities of neutrinos back to a value not significantly different from the speed of light." It's too early to say whether that's the final verdict on this story—the CERN scientists did claim to have accounted for such factors in their report. But for now, it appears that making the jump to hyperspace may be just as far off as it was before some seemingly super-fast neutrinos got us all excited about being Han Solo. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2394747,00.asp#fbid=Txpjiai5wg_ -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 114.41.219.117

10/17 21:09, , 1F
昨天聽到這個消息的時候辦公室的一致反應是這未免也太囧
10/17 21:09, 1F

10/17 21:23, , 2F
結果XD
10/17 21:23, 2F

10/17 21:30, , 4F
發這種文章還真不留情面,要對嗆了
10/17 21:30, 4F

10/17 21:30, , 5F
有人說arXiv就是全世界物理鄉民的戰場,果真不假
10/17 21:30, 5F

10/17 21:31, , 6F
開戰瞜!(沙發)
10/17 21:31, 6F

10/17 21:52, , 7F
有Ig Nobel的等級...XD
10/17 21:52, 7F

10/17 22:17, , 8F
.....要得搞笑諾貝爾了嗎? XD
10/17 22:17, 8F

10/17 22:20, , 9F
爆米花(伸
10/17 22:20, 9F

10/17 22:24, , 10F
不知道OPERA會怎樣反擊耶
10/17 22:24, 10F

10/17 22:44, , 11F
突然覺得臉被打得很痛喔XD參考文線第一篇XD
10/17 22:44, 11F

10/17 22:45, , 12F
他還有引用Michelson & Morley耶...XDXD
10/17 22:45, 12F

10/17 22:49, , 13F
哈哈~~~這一系列真精彩
10/17 22:49, 13F

10/17 22:51, , 14F
CERN表示:
10/17 22:51, 14F

10/17 22:52, , 15F
果然是之前猜測的儀器誤差
10/17 22:52, 15F

10/17 23:12, , 16F
為何需要GPS? 對時用?
10/17 23:12, 16F

10/17 23:14, , 17F
現在只是另一個團隊提出 又還沒確認就是這因素吧...?
10/17 23:14, 17F

10/17 23:14, , 18F
怎麼已經有版友用到"果然"這個詞
10/17 23:14, 18F

10/17 23:21, , 19F
那很重要嗎? =.=||
10/17 23:21, 19F

10/17 23:24, , 20F
因為還沒確認啊 原研究團隊還沒出來說明是不是這樣
10/17 23:24, 20F

10/17 23:26, , 21F
反正每個人都有自己支持的觀點Why not XD
10/17 23:26, 21F

10/17 23:26, , 22F
..............
10/17 23:26, 22F

10/17 23:27, , 23F
沒想到有人那麼介意.. XD
10/17 23:27, 23F

10/18 01:06, , 24F
終於落幕了XD
10/18 01:06, 24F

10/18 02:08, , 25F
沒有落幕,這只是某個group的challenge吧? 類似的challenge
10/18 02:08, 25F

10/18 02:09, , 26F
去網路上搜一狗票耶? 所以哪篇質疑才是對的? 言之過早吧
10/18 02:09, 26F

10/18 07:57, , 27F
他用參考文獻超狠...直接用最原版的...哈哈哈...
10/18 07:57, 27F

10/18 08:47, , 28F
還好吧. 講歷史的時候順便 cite 一下而已
10/18 08:47, 28F

10/18 09:05, , 29F
CERN糗了...雖然結果有可能還是>C, 但這個真的很囧
10/18 09:05, 29F

10/18 11:33, , 30F
soga~很期待cern到底如何應對
10/18 11:33, 30F

10/18 15:42, , 31F
最後還是挑戰失敗
10/18 15:42, 31F

10/18 20:57, , 32F
CERN有特別需要應對嗎? 目前他們處理這樁"發現"還挺得體的
10/18 20:57, 32F

10/18 22:16, , 33F
其實怎麼想都覺得忽略gps衛星自身移動很誇張
10/18 22:16, 33F

10/18 22:17, , 34F
對做粒子實驗的 data是在哪個frame看到是本能反應
10/18 22:17, 34F

10/18 22:18, , 35F
所以我覺得這challenge搞不好會失敗...
10/18 22:18, 35F

10/19 02:03, , 36F
arXiv本來就戰場阿 有大師不愛期刊專發arXiv的....
10/19 02:03, 36F

10/19 02:03, , 37F
然後裡面嗆另一個(比較晚輩的)大師XD 超有趣
10/19 02:03, 37F

10/20 12:47, , 38F
愛因斯坦並沒有忘記GPS誤差
10/20 12:47, 38F

08/13 16:28, , 39F
所以我覺得這chall https://muxiv.com
08/13 16:28, 39F

09/17 14:27, , 40F
昨天聽到這個消息的時候 https://daxiv.com
09/17 14:27, 40F
文章代碼(AID): #1Ed2PxFv (Physics)