Re: [閒聊] Archnemesis改動方向

看板PathofExile作者 (淺澗遠秋)時間1年前 (2022/11/17 11:05), 1年前編輯推噓45(45推 0噓 41→)
留言86則, 52人參與, 1年前最新討論串1/1
※ 引述《Justin890820 (xd)》之銘言： : 來源：https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3322245 : 看來光頭還是會怕玩家流失 直接把AN詞綴移除了 : 我就問這種智障設定 當初怎麼覺得會對玩家有吸引力 不太對 所以我來當勞工惹 The issues that players often had with Archnemesis were: The keyworded mod names were not fully descriptive of what they did The mods often had multiple effects bundled which made them harder to understand Due to how many effects were included in a single mod, it made too many encounters too complex The way Archnemesis rewards were set up meant that many players felt like they couldn't just kill a monster, they had to consider if they wanted to bring a magic find character in to maximise rewards 現在宿敵詞的問題為 1,詞墜沒有辦法描述他們的效果 2,這些詞墜通常有複數能力且讓人難以理解 3,因為單一詞墜有太多能力所以讓面對這些戰鬥太複雜 4,掉落大禮包的設定讓玩家沒辦法單純把怪幹掉,玩家必須找打寶師才能得到理想的收益 The goals of the new system are: Mods do one specific thing Mods say what they do rather than having a thematic name you must learn and remember Encounters are simplified on average while retaining interesting fights Players are no longer required to do annoying actions to maximise rewards 改動後的目標為 1,詞墜單純化 2,詞墜的名稱從主題式的名稱變成更直接的描述 3,戰鬥會更單純 4,玩家不用特別做麻煩的事情才能維持收益 Mods do one specific thing Here's an example: The Magma Barrier Archnemesis mod did a whole lot of stuff. It started by putting a magma barrier around the monster, but it didn't stop there. It converted some of the monster's physical damage to fire damage, it added some extra fire damage on top, it granted fire resistance to the monster and it gave some physical damage reduction for good measure. It also spawned volatile flamebloods to follow you. The new equivalent modifier just puts a magma barrier around the monster and does nothing else. 詞墜單純化 打個比方:熔岩屏障(應該是這個名字)原本有一大堆能力,他會給怪物開個盾,並且會把 怪物一部分的物理傷害轉成火傷,然後給怪物一些額外火傷,額外物減跟火抗,最後還會 生成追殺你的火球. 新的詞墜只會保留放盾的部分 Mods say what they do rather than having a thematic name you must learn and remember For example, rather than "Incendiary", which broke down into six properties, you'd now see monsters with either "Ignites" or "Fire and Ignite Resistant". Instead of "Deadeye", which did five separate things, you'd now see "Applies Random Mark", "Extra Crits" or "Accurate" as separate unrelated mods. 詞墜的名稱從主題式的名稱變成更直接的描述 打個比方,"縱火"這個詞(應該是?這個不太確定中文是哪個),會被拆成6個部分,你會更直 接看到怪物頭上寫著"點燃"跟"火焰與點燃抗性"."銳眼",原本有五個功能的詞,你現在會 看到"造成隨機印記","額外爆擊" 或 "更多命中"為分開的詞墜. Encounters are simplified on average while retaining interesting fights The pool of mods that involve complex interaction (like spawning volatiles or ground effects on death) have been heavily diluted by the presence of the simpler mods. This means that you encounter more complex fights less frequently. But interesting and challenging emergent behaviour from overlapping mods can still happen, just less often. 戰鬥會更單純 那些包含複雜互動的詞墜(像是死亡生成追殺火球或超痛地板)已經被簡化詞墜這動作給 大量稀釋.這代表你會更少碰到這些超麻煩的戰鬥.但大量堆疊詞墜後還是有機率跑出來 ,就比較少. Players are no longer required to do annoying actions to maximise rewards In Archnemesis, rewards were associated with individual mods. This meant that you could tell what kind of rewards you would get in advance. In some cases, you were then effectively required to fetch a magic-find culling character to make sure that you maximised the value of the monster mod that you had found. In other cases, you would ignore a monster completely if you knew that it would only drop rewards that were of no value to you. In the new system, we have added a significant pool of new rewards to rares, but the reward that is on the monster is hidden (and not associated with a specific mod), so you don't know what kind of rewards you will get until you kill the monster. Rare monsters with more mods are more likely to have these special hidden reward mods. This new reward system smooths out the spikiness that the Archnemesis reward system had. 玩家不用特別做麻煩的事情才能維持收益 在宿敵聯盟時,獎勵是跟詞墜綁在一起的,這代表你可以得知你接下來能得到甚麼,在這 個情況下,你必須要找一個撲殺打寶師才能有效率的確保自己的收益,在其他情況下你會 完全忽略一隻怪因為他啥毛都不會掉,在新系統我們增加了更多的獎勵類型,但獎勵會被 隱藏(且不跟特定詞墜綁在一起),所以你要幹掉怪物才知道會掉啥,有越多詞墜的怪會有 更高的機率帶有更好的掉落. 這系統讓宿敵詞的掉落曲線更平滑. Conclusion The original motivation for developing Archnemesis was that the previous monster mod system was very out of date. Many of the mods didn't have any appreciable effect under modern balance and there wasn't a lot of interesting gameplay possible. In our opinion, Archnemesis did succeed at adding a lot of interesting new mechanics to rares, but introduced the problems described above. While creating the new monster mods described in this article, we were careful to retain most of the interesting mechanics that Archnemesis introduced, but in a way that doesn't include a grab-bag of other effects and is diluted by many other simpler mods. The result is a system that is very similar to what monster mods used to be like, but with much more up-to-date content and balance. Mods are simpler and say exactly what they do. While you can certainly still rarely encounter scary combinations of mods that really wake you up, it's a lot rarer than it was under the Archnemesis system. We feel that the new system is more modern and interesting than the old monster mod/nemesis system and is clearer and easier to understand in the heat of combat than Archnemesis was. 總結 原本的製作宿敵詞的原因是舊的黃怪詞系統是非常過時的,大部分的詞墜都沒有好好的平 衡而且根本不好玩,以我們的角度來看,宿敵詞的確有效的新增了一些戰鬥機制,但也產生 了一大堆上述的問題,所以在詞墜修正時,我們保留了戰鬥機制,但不再是怪物強化超級大 禮包而是更單純的詞墜. 這結果會讓怪物詞墜的運作更像以前的運作模式,但有更多內容和平衡,詞墜會更單純而且 描述更加直接.這代表你還是有很低的機率碰到大量堆疊的強力黃怪.我們覺得新系統比舊 宿敵系統更有趣且更容易理解戰鬥到底在幹嘛. 跟我上一篇說的差不多 強度被砍下去 掉落也讓你不用管打寶師 一切都歐拉歐拉過去就好 怪變好殺 承認自己平衡沒搞好 算是好的開始吧 可以給點關注接下來的詳細內容 題外話 看到點燃抗性才想到 元素使的必定點燃可不可以改成1000%之類的阿 超容易被詞墜抗掉的耶 -- https://www.twitch.tv/stkissstone 當然，我可以試試 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 218.166.62.44 (臺灣) ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PathofExile/M.1668654325.A.EFE.html ※ 編輯: stkissstone (218.166.62.44 臺灣), 11/17/2022 11:07:05
推
11/17 11:12, 1年前 , 1F
翻譯推
11/17 11:12, 1F
推
11/17 11:13, 1年前 , 2F
哥布林隱身，打寶師變回以前努力尾刀所有怪模式
11/17 11:13, 2F
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11/17 11:14, 1年前 , 3F
感謝翻譯
11/17 11:14, 3F
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11/17 11:14, 1年前 , 4F
多功能宿敵詞全都拆多條，好降低討人厭組合機率
11/17 11:14, 4F
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11/17 11:18, 1年前 , 5F
結果每個詞的討厭部分組合起來XDD
11/17 11:18, 5F
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11/17 11:18, 1年前 , 6F
骰子要爆
11/17 11:18, 6F
推
11/17 11:18, 1年前 , 7F
就算遇到熔岩屏障+冰牢+毒素+風行者，那隻怪至少不會
11/17 11:18, 7F
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11/17 11:19, 1年前 , 8F
那也是從討厭部分+一堆額外強化 變成討厭部分
11/17 11:19, 8F
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11/17 11:19, 1年前 , 9F
還是可以整死人 但比這一季好
11/17 11:19, 9F
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11/17 11:19, 1年前 , 10F
還有+50抗性跟額外xx傷害了
11/17 11:19, 10F
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11/17 11:26, 1年前 , 11F
這樣改還不錯吧 剩下看砍寶箱怪掉落率會不會還回來
11/17 11:26, 11F
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11/17 11:27, 1年前 , 12F
寶箱怪還在 只是沒法看出來 只能全殺
11/17 11:27, 12F
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11/17 11:40, 1年前 , 13F
把宿敵的詞綴拆散，但是再提升強度?
11/17 11:40, 13F
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11/17 11:41, 1年前 , 14F
沒有提升強度阿 就拆開
11/17 11:41, 14F
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11/17 11:43, 1年前 , 15F
但是他好像只提到簡化詞綴，沒提到強度，感覺不好說
11/17 11:43, 15F
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11/17 11:44, 1年前 , 16F
推翻譯 按照GGG北藍個性 說不定大幅強化單一詞
11/17 11:44, 16F
推
11/17 11:49, 1年前 , 17F
酋長:bitch 100%還嫌棄 看看我多少%好嗎
11/17 11:49, 17F
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11/17 11:57, 1年前 , 18F
酋長.....是誰?
11/17 11:57, 18F
推
11/17 11:59, 1年前 , 19F
推 這改動非常好! 之前有疊加詞墜 很難打
11/17 11:59, 19F
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11/17 12:00, 1年前 , 20F
終於 鍊魔算加強?
11/17 12:00, 20F
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11/17 12:01, 1年前 , 21F
練魔扣掉詞墜還有其他問題就是了
11/17 12:01, 21F
推
11/17 12:29, 1年前 , 22F
覺得不好玩，所以看到玩家一直死他們覺得很好玩嗎
11/17 12:29, 22F
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11/17 12:31, 1年前 , 23F
還會玩玩看，體驗糟糕只能跑 感謝翻譯
11/17 12:31, 23F
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11/17 12:55, 1年前 , 24F
這樣遊戲變得很不cooool 怎麼辦
11/17 12:55, 24F
推
11/17 12:59, 1年前 , 25F
不好玩改成好玩，然後玩家跑更多ㄏㄏ
11/17 12:59, 25F
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11/17 13:33, 1年前 , 26F
沒關係 反正我已經移除了
11/17 13:33, 26F
推
11/17 13:48, 1年前 , 27F
宿敵真的好好玩窩
11/17 13:48, 27F
推
11/17 14:14, 1年前 , 28F
要弄出以前難度是不是會出個地圖天賦 稀有怪詞綴無上限
11/17 14:14, 28F
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11/17 14:17, 1年前 , 29F
這遊戲必定點燃、必定感電都不是字面想的那樣zzz
11/17 14:17, 29F
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11/17 14:35, 1年前 , 30F
不是有個什麼自虐模式 想難的去自虐阿 客群分開很好
11/17 14:35, 30F
推
11/17 15:01, 1年前 , 31F
幹你娘還我自咒啦幹
11/17 15:01, 31F
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11/17 15:50, 1年前 , 32F
希望他們真的想通了把自虐跟一般分開
11/17 15:50, 32F
推
11/17 16:19, 1年前 , 33F
反正掉寶不改回來我看遊戲是沒救了 不怎麼看好
11/17 16:19, 33F
推
11/17 16:29, 1年前 , 34F
掉寶就改回來了阿= =
11/17 16:29, 34F
推
11/17 16:34, 1年前 , 35F
那這個獎勵系統不就跟“黃怪有更多稀有度”差不多
11/17 16:34, 35F
推
11/17 16:46, 1年前 , 36F
哪裡說改回來了 有說舊聯盟機制怪的IIQ IIR會改回來嗎
11/17 16:46, 36F
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11/17 16:49, 1年前 , 37F
推
11/17 16:49, 37F
推
11/17 17:13, 1年前 , 38F
玩家持續流失 遊戲就會變好玩了 這季我先不玩
11/17 17:13, 38F
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11/17 17:17, 1年前 , 39F
沒關係我等3.20上伺服器再來罵
11/17 17:17, 39F
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11/17 17:28, 1年前 , 40F
不玩還要回來罵也太死忠了吧
11/17 17:28, 40F
推
11/17 17:34, 1年前 , 41F
好的開始？nonono
11/17 17:34, 41F
推
11/17 18:34, 1年前 , 42F
再說吧 反正到時候肯定又偷改些什麼
11/17 18:34, 42F
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11/17 18:37, 1年前 , 43F
宿敵太強再砍掉 但是砍掉的掉寶率也不會回來
11/17 18:37, 43F
推
11/17 18:51, 1年前 , 44F
看完還是對GGG無期待但翻譯還是要給推
11/17 18:51, 44F
推
11/17 19:14, 1年前 , 45F
簡單來說就是把宿敵改回以前那樣阿(攤
11/17 19:14, 45F
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11/17 19:14, 1年前 , 46F
阿掉寶敢不敢一起改回來
11/17 19:14, 46F
推
11/17 19:23, 1年前 , 47F
還有各種舊聯盟怪的IRIQ呢 我看3G一定會對這個裝死
11/17 19:23, 47F
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11/17 19:24, 1年前 , 48F
根據之前的前科 肯定是有什麼最重要的地方不敢先說
11/17 19:24, 48F
推
11/17 19:26, 1年前 , 49F
現在ggg有隔壁頑皮狗的味道了（笑
11/17 19:26, 49F
推
11/17 19:34, 1年前 , 50F
照GGG之前那種改法鐵定有藏什麼噁心的沒講
11/17 19:34, 50F
推
11/17 19:42, 1年前 , 51F
翻譯推
11/17 19:42, 51F
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11/17 19:53, 1年前 , 52F
直覺告訴我,把物品轉換詞拆掉,其他一樣打包
11/17 19:53, 52F
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11/17 19:57, 1年前 , 53F
比19好一點點，也只是一點….
11/17 19:57, 53F
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11/17 19:59, 1年前 , 54F
不用做麻煩事最大化收益,這句話聽來很恐懼
11/17 19:59, 54F
推
11/17 20:02, 1年前 , 55F
原來熔岩屏障做那麼多事情= =
11/17 20:02, 55F
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11/17 20:45, 1年前 , 56F
"不用管打寶"會不會是因為砍掉落到有無打寶都差不多？
11/17 20:45, 56F
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11/17 20:46, 1年前 , 57F
然後這改動是暗著來的？
11/17 20:46, 57F
推
11/17 20:54, 1年前 , 58F
還是要有打寶 只是不能像這版本找打寶師來打最後一下
11/17 20:54, 58F
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11/17 20:58, 1年前 , 59F
掉寶的部分啊不就跟之前一樣
11/17 20:58, 59F
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11/17 21:04, 1年前 , 60F
算了，反正掉寶沒改回來我也不會想玩
11/17 21:04, 60F
推
11/17 21:05, 1年前 , 61F
GGG頂住...千萬不要趁了低端玩家的意，要堅持自己！
11/17 21:05, 61F
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11/17 21:48, 1年前 , 62F
還是會一次噴出一大堆東西 但你不可預期是哪種
11/17 21:48, 62F
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11/17 21:48, 1年前 , 63F
所以不用找打寶師
11/17 21:48, 63F
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11/17 21:49, 1年前 , 64F
反正等詳細PN吧 有一分數據說一分話
11/17 21:49, 64F
推
11/17 21:53, 1年前 , 65F
你的意思是雖然不用找打寶師但是還是能在路上打到200個護
11/17 21:53, 65F
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11/17 21:53, 1年前 , 66F
甲片 20瓶藥劑嗎 謝了GGG==
11/17 21:53, 66F
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11/17 21:55, 1年前 , 67F
至少不是打到一團空氣
11/17 21:55, 67F
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11/17 22:08, 1年前 , 68F
經過3.19之後，pn還要擔心他有沒有當重點寫進去
11/17 22:08, 68F
推
11/17 22:23, 1年前 , 69F
喜迎成堆的磨刀石 (?
11/17 22:23, 69F
推
11/17 23:56, 1年前 , 70F
Encounters are simplified on average 這點我從不懷疑
11/17 23:56, 70F
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11/17 23:56, 1年前 , 71F
GGG 能把那個 pool 搞出各種 bug 然後怪要嘛廢到笑要
11/17 23:56, 71F
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11/17 23:56, 1年前 , 72F
嘛照樣噁爆...
11/17 23:56, 72F
推
11/18 01:24, 1年前 , 73F
觀望中
11/18 01:24, 73F
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11/18 02:09, 1年前 , 74F
就觀望 兩面的意見都先不用放滿
11/18 02:09, 74F
推
11/18 08:50, 1年前 , 75F
反正, 贊助包請等開賽兩季後再考慮. 請大家互相提醒
11/18 08:50, 75F
推
11/18 10:33, 1年前 , 76F
宿敵詞拆成單條效果 所以應該不會出現超級黃怪了?
11/18 10:33, 76F
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11/18 10:34, 1年前 , 77F
以前6詞裡面含宿敵詞 實際上可能有10~20條詞
11/18 10:34, 77F
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11/18 10:35, 1年前 , 78F
寶箱怪也是因為詞綴堆疊才變成單一怪獎勵太好
11/18 10:35, 78F
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11/18 11:56, 1年前 , 79F
給你完美6詞還是可以扁死玩家
11/18 11:56, 79F
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11/18 18:24, 1年前 , 80F
1000%也沒用 避免撐到100%就是免疫 目前的互動就是他們
11/18 18:24, 80F
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11/18 18:24, 1年前 , 81F
兩個獨立判定
11/18 18:24, 81F
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11/18 18:34, 1年前 , 82F
簡單來說不管你機率幾%，他就是一定有N%機率避免中狀態
11/18 18:34, 82F
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11/19 21:11, 1年前 , 83F
等PN出來再說，這說法也還是有很多洞可以鑽
11/19 21:11, 83F
推
11/21 18:27, 1年前 , 84F
所以之後會遇到從螢幕最上面描述到最下面的怪嗎
11/21 18:27, 84F
推
11/22 04:25, 1年前 , 85F
感謝翻譯
11/22 04:25, 85F
推
11/22 07:58, 1年前 , 86F
綁打寶師就很不健康
11/22 07:58, 86F
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