[討論] FanGraphs作家認為該修改鏟人規則

看板MLB作者abc2090614 (casperxdd)時間10年前 (2015/09/19 22:55)推噓44(44推 0噓 44→)

留言88則, 29人參與討論串1/1

http://goo.gl/oih3Gw Chris Coghlan, the Takeout Slide Rule, and Catcher Collisions by Craig Edwards - September 18,2015 我就翻重點就好一開始他引用了 MLB 對以滑壘防礙阻殺的規則 6.05(m) (不是7.09(f), 那是錯的)，這和我們理解差不多就略過... As a matter of practical application, players are generally allowed to take out the fielder so long as they are within an arms length of the bag when they slide. Under the current application of the rule, Coghlan’s slide was legal. Still, as the image below shows Coghlan was pretty far out of the baseline and that his leg was fairly high. (The image hopefully isn’t too cringeworthy — the worse, side-angle footage was purposely avoided.). 以現行 MLB 執法情況來說，只要跑者在鏟野手時手碰得到壘包，通常都沒什麼問題。(根據規則6.05) 所以以此來說，Coghlan 這一鏟是合法的。不過可以看見 Coghlan 確實離壘線相當遠，而且腳抬得很高。(見圖，作者刻意選一張姜正浩腳沒彎往奇怪方向的) Although the intent of the slide might not be to cause injury, due to the nature of the play, the risk of injury is present on all takeout slides, and it does happen, both to fielders and runners. Coghlan’s slide was pretty far from the bag, but no farther than Kang himself has previously slid — and compare the height of Coghlan’s legs above to Adrian Beltre‘s on this play: 雖然鏟人的目的不是使人受傷，但對跑者和野手兩方，都確實有受傷的風險。Coghlan 雖然離壘包有段距離，但其實沒有姜正浩之前鏟得一次遠(見圖)。我們也可以比較 Coghlan 和 Beltre 鏟人時腳的高度(見圖) This is not to say that Beltre is a dirty player or that Kang is to blame for his injury, but only to point out that, at the moment, these actions are an accepted part of baseball. While all will not agree, it seems reasonable that if injuries could be prevented without ruining the fabric of the game, rules should be implemented to do the same. The recent lesson here comes from the rules surrounding catcher collisions. 這意思不是說 Beltre 很髒，或是姜正浩該躲不躲才會受傷，而是要指出此行為在大聯盟中目前是允許的。雖然不是人人同意，但如果能在不大幅更動球賽內容的情況下，避免受傷的可能，則聯盟應該修改規則，就像最近的本壘衝撞規則一樣。 ...以下解釋 Posey rule，省略... It is important to note that MLB did not actually outlaw collisions at home plate. They addressed the principal causes of collisions, instructed teams on the same, and while the rule did cause some confusion in its first year, the rule appears to be by and large successful. 重點是，聯盟並沒有完全禁止本壘衝撞。反之，是提出本壘衝撞的具體規則後，再和球團溝通。雖然第一年改規則時確實有些疑問，但目前看來是很成功的規則。 The first change does make a lot of sense. Others have called for changes in past years or discussed the potential for changes, and Mike Bates requested today that the first rule above also apply to the takeout slide. Colleges have already taken action. Below is Rule 8, Section 4 for NCAA baseball: Posey Rule 第一條確實有道理(跑者不可為了造成身體接觸而離開跑壘的直線)。其他人也有討論過類似的修改，像 Mike Bates 就認為也應該讓這條規則適用在鏟人滑壘上。大學棒球則早就已經有類似規定。以下是 NCAA 規則 8.4 SECTION 4. The intent of the force-play-slide rule is to ensure the safety of all players. This is a safety and an interference rule. Whether the defense could have completed the double play has no bearing on the applicability of this rule. This rule pertains to a force-play situation at any base, regardless of the number of outs. 第四節：本條規則是為了確保選手安全。為安全和妨礙球賽類規則。防守方是否能完成阻殺和本規則效力無關，並和哪一壘及該局出局數多少無關。 a. On any force play, the runner must slide on the ground before the base and in a direct line between the two bases. It is permissible for the slider’ s momentum to carry him through the base in the baseline extended (see diagram). a. 在阻礙野手阻殺時，跑者必須在地上直線滑進壘，且在兩壘之直線上滑壘。跑者可以利用自身動量，在壘線的延伸上滑出壘包。 Exception—A runner need not slide directly into a base as long as the runner slides or runs in a direction away from the fielder to avoid making contact or altering the play of the fielder. Interference shall not be called. 例外：在沒有身體接觸或影響守備的可能性之情況，本條規則不適用。 1) “On the ground” means either a head-first slide or a slide with one leg and buttock on the ground before the base. 1) 在地上進壘，意指撲壘或是單腳和屁股觸地之滑壘。 2) “Directly into a base” means the runner’s entire body (feet, legs, trunk and arms) must stay in a straight line between the bases. 2) 直線滑進壘，意指跑者之全身(含腳、腿、軀幹和手)都必須保持在兩壘間直線上 The NCAA rule goes on with a chart and explains that the runner’s momentum can carry him through the bag, that pop-up slides are legal, and that the penalty for violating the rule with or without contact is declaring both the runner and batter out. The above rule only applies to force outs so those players attempting to go for a double or steal a base can still try to avoid tags by moving their bodies wide of the bag and reaching out with their arms like on this Jason Heyward steal. NCAA 的規則附解說圖，說明跑者可以利用自身動量滑出壘包，滑壘後可立刻站起，並且違反規則時，不論有無造成接觸，跑者及打者皆判出局。因為只對阻殺適用，所以為了搶二壘安打或盜壘的跑者，仍然可以滑出壘線以手觸壘來避免刺殺，如 Jason Heyward 之盜壘(見影片)。 This rule will not eliminate the risk of injury entirely. The Beltre slide from above would likely still be legal. The Brett Lawrie play from earlier in the year would likely still be legal, but if it meant an automatic out, players would likely stop the type of takeout slide that hurt Kang, and it could also help prevent runner injuries as well considering the plays of Neil Walker (here) and Peter Bourjos (here). The takeout slide is not going to be eliminated, but it will not even be altered without a change to the rules. The outside the baseline, legs out swipe serves no purpose for the runner other than to impede the thrower after the out is made. Potentially injurious plays should be prevented if they have virtually no effect on how the game is played. Telling players to slide directly into the bag is an easy fix and hardly affects the game at all. 這樣的規則不會完全去除受傷風險。上圖 Beltre 的滑壘應該還是合法。Brett Lawrie 之前的滑壘也應該是合法。但如果會直接被判出局，則球員應該不會再作出像造成姜正浩受傷的鏟人滑壘，也同時減低跑者受傷的可能。如 Neil Walker 和 Peter Bourjos 的兩個例子(見影片)。鏟人不會完全消失，但如果不改規則，什麼改變都不會有。離開壘線的掃堂腿對跑壘本身沒有意義，單純是為了出局後才阻礙傳球。如果棒球本身影響不大，則應該防止類似的高風險動作。叫球員直線滑進壘是一個簡單又對球賽影響不大的改法。完 == 我是不知道覺得這個play一點問題都沒有的人是怎麼想啦。球員本身的意圖沒有問題，我同意，因為目標就是阻止傳球。可是既然會造成受傷，代表應該想想改進辦法吧？而不是一直在dirty play/clean play上打轉。Coghlan 鏟姜這個案例美國人也是戰得亂七八糟，跟亞洲風氣無關好嗎？這篇文才出來沒多久下面就戰了快一百篇，ESPN的 Keith Law 也說這是dirty play然後下面也是戰得一塌糊塗。如果覺得生活中什麼事情沒「錯」就不需要思考的人，大概還無法理解吧？ -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 71.236.38.2 ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/MLB/M.1442674509.A.5F7.html ※ 編輯: abc2090614 (71.236.38.2), 09/19/2015 22:55:43

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