[外電] Here's a baseball Hall of Fame vote

看板MLB作者 (uilnivla)時間11年前 (2013/01/11 16:55), 編輯推噓51(55478)
留言137則, 47人參與, 5年前最新討論串1/1
原文 http://www.dailynews.com/opinions/ci_22339415/heres-baseball-hall-fame-vote -steroid-guys-opinion 作者 Kevin Modesti 以下簡譯之 Here's a baseball Hall of Fame vote for the 'steroid guys': Opinion 我投給了藥人 In trying to save the baseball Hall of Fame from steroid cheaters, the voters are destroying it. 為了不讓藥人進入名人堂 投票者們的行為卻正在摧毀它 Since the days of Babe Ruth, the Hall of Fame has played a special role in American sports, handing down the history of the nation's essential game from fathers and mothers to sons and daughters. Veteran baseball writers have cast annual ballots and proclaimed: These were the players fans clamored to see, marveled at, argued about. These were the players who mattered. These were the icons of their eras. 自從貝比之後 名人堂一直都有特殊的地位 被選進的球員都是最強的 是偶像 The Hall of Fame became something totally different with today's announcement that voters have slammed the museum's door on a generation of stars that includes seven-time Most Valuable Player Barry Bonds, seven-time Cy Young Award winner Roger Clemens, and the great former Dodger Mike Piazza, first-time candidates undone by their connection to performance-enhancing drugs. 今天的名人堂有點不一樣了 舉凡 Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mike Piazza 這些最強的球員卻因為跟藥沾上關係而不得其門而入 The Hall of Fame now is the place where steroid suspects are judged. 名人堂變成了聖人堂 Voters, many of whom presumably helped to select Bonds and Clemens for all of those awards, have delivered a redacted history to future generations: Bonds' record 762 home runs -- didn't happen. Clemens' 4,672 strikeouts -- never heard about them. Mark McGwire's and Sammy Sosa's home-run exploits -- wash your mouth out. The controversy they inspired -- move along, nothing to see here. 投票者們 其中很多都曾經在各個獎項投給這些人的 現在卻試圖給大眾這樣的訊息 棒子爺的762轟 沒發生過 火箭人的4672次三振 沒聽說過 馬怪和索沙的全壘打大戰 別再說了 勿聽 勿說 勿看 I voted for Bonds, Clemens, 我投給了棒子爺和火箭人 Piazza, McGwire, Sosa, Jeff Bagwell and Tim Raines. Some suggest that those of us who vote for "steroid guys" are apologists for a tainted era. Quite the opposite: We're the ones who are facing reality instead of helping Major League Baseball sweep its mess under the rug. 我投給了棒子爺和火箭人 還有 Piazza, McGwire, Sosa, Jeff Bagwell, Tim Raines 有人說我們這些投給藥人的是禁藥年代的辯護者 恰恰相反 我們只是面對現實 並且不想幫助大聯盟把那個年代整個遺忘 Let's be clear that PEDs are bad. If their use can't be stopped, their users should be held accountable. The question is whether Hall of Fame voting is the way to do that. 禁藥是不好的 用藥的人應該要被懲罰 但應該用名人堂來懲罰他們嗎 In this year's voting, Craig Biggio got 68.2 percent, coming closest to the 75 percent threshold for enshrinement, while Clemens and Bonds got less than 40 percent and fell far short. Say what you want about the message you send to children if you honor suspected cheaters, but telling kids that Craig Biggio was the towering figure of his era is absurd. 今年 Biggio 拿到68.2%的選票是最多的 火箭人和棒子爺都是40%不到 不管你對禁藥的態度如何 要說 Biggio 是那個年代最強的球員根本就是荒謬 After voting against McGwire on PED grounds in my first years with a ballot, I realized that a voter who focuses on drug questions is condemned to a lifetime of playing sports detective. It's hard enough to decide if a player's achievements on the field are worthy of Cooperstown, without having to decide who to believe about how he built his muscles. 我有投票權的第一年沒投給馬怪 我明白了一件事 如果你在投票的時候一直關注在禁藥問題上的話 那你最好是個警探 要決定一個球員的表現值不值得進入名人堂已經夠難的了 何況還要關心他是怎麼健身的 A majority of voters apparently don't mind; after all, acting as the steroid jury enhances their power and gives them more to write and rant about. But fans and other lovers of the history of baseball should mind. 大部分的投票者似乎不太在意 畢竟當個禁藥陪審團給他們更多材料可寫可抱怨 但球迷們應該要在意 Starting now, anyone who visits the Hall of Fame plaques in Cooperstown, N.Y., or reads the list of 236 players honored since 1936, must wonder who isn't there because he wasn't great enough and who isn't there because he was a little too great. 從今天起 造訪古柏鎮的人們 在閱讀自1936年以來的236位名人堂成員介紹時 不由得要想想 沒被選入的那些人 他們是不夠強呢 還是太強了 The Hall of Fame bestows a high honor. It also preserves history. Voters who are trying to protect the institution's first role are diminishing the second. 名人堂給予榮耀 也保存歷史 投票者們想要保護前者 卻減損了後者 The Hall today is a different, lesser place. 所以它變成了聖人堂 心得: 比較年輕一代的記者們似乎對禁藥問題的態度較為開明 火箭人和棒子爺應該終究還是會進入名人堂的 -- 轉錄可,請註明出處作者 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 220.133.52.68

01/11 17:00, , 1F
我真的覺得該既往不咎
01/11 17:00, 1F

01/11 17:00, , 2F
從公開的票上 這兩個都沒投給Biggio (這兩個才是怪人吧(誤
01/11 17:00, 2F

01/11 17:02, , 3F
但他投的我只有最後一個不認識 願意面對歷史就推
01/11 17:02, 3F

01/11 17:03, , 4F
Tim Raines就是吸毒犯啊XD
01/11 17:03, 4F

01/11 17:03, , 5F
這才是名人堂的意義阿 往後的人看這份清單卻發現少了這些人
01/11 17:03, 5F

01/11 17:03, , 6F
給推 BBWAA要有這種人!
01/11 17:03, 6F

01/11 17:03, , 7F
你究竟要如何解釋這些"消失"的人
01/11 17:03, 7F

01/11 17:03, , 8F
01/11 17:03, 8F

01/11 17:03, , 9F
TIM ROCK RAINS 喔 大盜年代的代表之一...
01/11 17:03, 9F

01/11 17:15, , 10F
誰能保證Babe Ruth的714轟沒有吃藥?
01/11 17:15, 10F

01/11 17:19, , 11F
那你最好是個警探.... 這句話就很婊了. 聖人堂啊(搖頭)
01/11 17:19, 11F

01/11 17:22, , 12F
然後Biggio沒進更荒謬
01/11 17:22, 12F

01/11 17:22, , 13F
單比成就Biggio排在這些人之後有什麼問題嗎?
01/11 17:22, 13F

01/11 17:23, , 14F
排除掉用藥這項因素.Biggio在這份名單上等上3-5年很意外嗎?
01/11 17:23, 14F

01/11 17:25, , 15F
但是biggio成就夠格跟禁藥無關也沒進,那要怎樣才配進
01/11 17:25, 15F

01/11 17:26, , 16F
某Y的論點最莫名其妙 好像全大聯盟都有在吃 只是沒被
01/11 17:26, 16F

01/11 17:26, , 17F
就這作者認為Biggio在這些人之後阿XD
01/11 17:26, 17F

01/11 17:26, , 18F
抓到 那真正沒吃的一輩子都不會被驗出來 是不是就得
01/11 17:26, 18F

01/11 17:26, , 19F
就拿投給Bonds/火箭的3X%來說.如果這個比例的投票者
01/11 17:26, 19F

01/11 17:27, , 20F
被質疑一輩子 最賭爛這種拖別人一起下水的說法
01/11 17:27, 20F

01/11 17:27, , 21F
都是這麼做選擇的.那Biggio拿不到這些人的票才是"正常"
01/11 17:27, 21F

01/11 17:27, , 22F
把十個候選位都圈滿的不是常態
01/11 17:27, 22F

01/11 17:28, , 23F
貝比魯斯的年代沒類固醇吃 就質疑他是不是有吸毒
01/11 17:28, 23F

01/11 17:28, , 24F
要護航還得加油一點
01/11 17:28, 24F

01/11 17:32, , 25F
`當我們一邊喊著要誠實面對歷史的同時
01/11 17:32, 25F

01/11 17:32, , 26F
其實這邏輯對比投票結果是說得通的 票源就分成散了兩大派
01/11 17:32, 26F

01/11 17:33, , 27F
無視禁藥的那Biggio自然不會是他們今年的首選
01/11 17:33, 27F

01/11 17:33, , 28F
卻又沒辦法接收Biggio第一年進不了HOF
01/11 17:33, 28F

01/11 17:33, , 29F
而反禁藥的 應該大多會認為Biggio最有資格先進
01/11 17:33, 29F

01/11 17:33, , 30F
這本身就是一件很弔詭的事情
01/11 17:33, 30F

01/11 17:33, , 31F
那個年代在現在所謂的禁藥就是還沒規範..雖說這很難怪
01/11 17:33, 31F

01/11 17:34, , 32F
哪一方~要是說聯盟自己當時沒把這些訂近規範裡面
01/11 17:34, 32F

01/11 17:35, , 33F
其實有規範.當時我試著為馬怪他們辯護的同時
01/11 17:35, 33F

01/11 17:35, , 34F
在本版被噓到翻過去.甚至還因此吵起來進過桶
01/11 17:35, 34F

01/11 17:36, , 35F
又或是要說球員原該就尊重棒球不論有效無效都不該碰那些
01/11 17:36, 35F

01/11 17:36, , 36F
MLB版是最近兩年風向才轉往馬怪.Sosa這邊的= =
01/11 17:36, 36F

01/11 17:36, , 37F
之前根本比聖人還聖人好不好.一提直接噓到X5.X6起跳
01/11 17:36, 37F

01/11 17:37, , 38F
那年代又沒有禁藥這種東西
01/11 17:37, 38F

01/11 17:38, , 39F
80年代後期MLB受外界壓力影響有對此定過備忘錄
01/11 17:38, 39F
還有 58 則推文
01/11 20:44, , 98F
AROD算有吃藥嗎 那他能進嗎?
01/11 20:44, 98F

01/11 20:56, , 99F
歷史的包袱 不應該由這些球員來揹
01/11 20:56, 99F

01/11 22:07, , 100F
對錯留給後世判斷,我們客觀的紀錄歷史,不贊成抹去
01/11 22:07, 100F

01/11 22:08, , 101F
萬一50年後改成可以用類固醇,那這些鬼神不進不是很可笑
01/11 22:08, 101F

01/11 22:25, , 102F
改聖人堂比較好WWW
01/11 22:25, 102F

01/11 22:39, , 103F
AROD是知法犯法不一樣 90年代類固醇合法
01/11 22:39, 103F

01/11 22:43, , 104F
不知道不投給Biggio的人是怎麼想的 比不投給*還讓人無法理解
01/11 22:43, 104F

01/11 22:45, , 105F
a-rod在遊騎兵時期那時候還沒開始禁藥吧?
01/11 22:45, 105F

01/11 22:47, , 106F
AROD沒被禁賽過哪來知法犯法?
01/11 22:47, 106F

01/11 22:49, , 107F
藥檢正式實施以後他可沒出問題過欸
01/11 22:49, 107F

01/11 22:51, , 108F
原來AROD也是不知者 誤會他了
01/11 22:51, 108F

01/11 22:57, , 109F
只要BB這群能進 AROD沒道理不給進吧?
01/11 22:57, 109F

01/11 23:08, , 110F
"當時"的人用的藥在"當時"又不是禁藥 憑甚麼事後追究
01/11 23:08, 110F

01/11 23:19, , 111F
A-Rod只是之前都說他沒吃而已 後來承認這樣~
01/11 23:19, 111F

01/12 00:28, , 112F
一堆搞不清楚狀況的...版主要不要寫個禁藥懶人包置底
01/12 00:28, 112F

01/12 01:51, , 113F
名人堂應該看的是球員在球場上的表現不是嗎......
01/12 01:51, 113F

01/12 02:34, , 114F
如果覺得*不該影響投票,那的確Biggio不會在Bonds等人前
01/12 02:34, 114F

01/12 02:35, , 115F
面阿,投票者把十個投票機會都用完不是常態
01/12 02:35, 115F

01/12 07:42, , 116F
雖然禁藥不好 但是有好表現的球員還是應該進入名人堂
01/12 07:42, 116F

01/12 07:44, , 117F
(像Pete Rose) 但是Barry Bonds這種人比較ooxx 說謊...
01/12 07:44, 117F

01/12 07:44, , 118F
這怎麼受的了
01/12 07:44, 118F

01/12 07:45, , 119F
(話說... Rose也不是因為禁藥才進不了名人堂@@)
01/12 07:45, 119F

01/12 09:38, , 120F
看到這些記者選個人也要發文章澄清自己的選擇就好笑 明明
01/12 09:38, 120F

01/12 09:40, , 121F
HOF票選就看球員成績記錄就好了 還要逾越本分去當法官
01/12 09:40, 121F

01/12 09:41, , 122F
記錄歷史還要看人品 把壞人的歷史抹去喔
01/12 09:41, 122F

01/12 09:43, , 123F
一個人的功過可不是這麼膚淺就可以評斷的
01/12 09:43, 123F

01/12 12:02, , 124F
如果你可以用「他跟藥人有段時間同隊,誰知道私下有沒有?」
01/12 12:02, 124F

01/12 12:02, , 125F
當作理由去質疑一個球員,別人同樣也可以用「那時代大多數
01/12 12:02, 125F

01/12 12:03, , 126F
人都有碰更兇的東西,誰知道那個已經榮耀好久的傢伙私下有
01/12 12:03, 126F

01/12 12:04, , 127F
沒有?」去質疑那些發聖光的球員
01/12 12:04, 127F

01/12 12:22, , 128F
翻譯是說名人堂變成用藥嫌疑犯被審判的地方吧
01/12 12:22, 128F

01/12 14:52, , 129F
Barry Bonds說謊? 他可是法院認證 偽證罪 "無罪"的
01/12 14:52, 129F

01/12 18:03, , 130F
Bonds說謊個屁 都判無罪了還有人在腦補 腦袋不清楚?
01/12 18:03, 130F

01/12 20:00, , 131F
樓上,obstruction of justice可是有成立
01/12 20:00, 131F

01/12 20:01, , 132F
perjury 則是陪審團意見不一致
01/12 20:01, 132F

01/12 20:37, , 133F
面對歷史!
01/12 20:37, 133F

01/13 19:41, , 134F
BB無罪嗎? 無罪。 無辜嗎? 不重要。
01/13 19:41, 134F

01/28 18:27, , 135F
某洋基肥真是廢到有剩 回家做功課再來耍廢好嗎
01/28 18:27, 135F

11/02 08:13, , 136F
卻又沒辦法接收Bigg https://daxiv.com
11/02 08:13, 136F

12/26 17:57, 5年前 , 137F
要護航還得加油一點 https://muxiv.com
12/26 17:57, 137F
文章代碼(AID): #1GxzEJnu (MLB)