Cabrera才是MVP

看板MLB作者時間11年前 (2012/10/01 22:08), 編輯推噓58(59推 1噓 146→)
留言206則, 44人參與, 最新討論串1/1
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120929/OPINION03/209290399/ ESPN claims that Trout merits the MVP award — despite Cabrera's possible Triple Crown — on the basis of WAR. This is not the kind of war that Ted Williams fought in twice amidst his Triple Crown-style seasons. Or the war that brought Willie Mays into the Army during his career. 儘管Cabrera有機會爭奪三冠王 ESPN卻以WAR宣稱Trout是MVP It is that relatively new "Moneyball" style of crackpot Sabermetrics stat described as wins above replacement. Whatever that means. 這是新"錢球派"創造出來的數據 Mike Trout's WAR numbers are juggled into a figure higher than Cabrera's. Trout的WAR贏過Cabrera很多 Oh, my goodness! 天啊 WAR — and there are versions disseminated by both websites Baseball-Reference.com and fangraphs.com — includes more skills than pure hitting and hitting for power. Stolen bases are considered, a number that actually can be counted. WAR計算打擊 盜壘 Fielding likewise counts. 還有防守 Just how fielding figures in … well, you look and watch. And then guess, and perhaps the guess works. Or doesn't. And then the figure person tries to measure how an ordinary replacement player might compare to the established high-skilled player. 防守的計算是 - 呃 你看比賽 然後推測 或許猜測正確 但也可能不對 然後和路人球員做比較 Once upon a time, the MVP was not decided on the basis of some imaginary numbers that are jammed into a murky, invented stat such as WAR. 過去 MVP可不是由WAR這種模糊 空想所創造出來的數據來決定 Again, Major League Baseball has not had a rookie of Mike Trout's magnitude since Willie Mays in 1951. And the sport has not been adorned by a Triple Crown winner since Carl Yastrzemski in 1967. Unlike WAR there is no stat in Sabermetrics known as LOGIC. And oops, WAR does not figure in baseball's most important statistic — finishing in first place during the regular season. The Tigers are aimed — likely — for a first-place finish in their division now that all the white flags in Detroit have been ripped down. WAR可沒計算進最重要的數據 - 分區領先 A ballplayer who leads his team to a first-place finish — nothing could be more valuable. 沒有比帶領球隊拿下分區第一更有價值的了 There is no doubt that Mike Trout is first over Miguel Cabrera in both WAR I and WAR II. 雖說Trout在兩個版本的WAR都領先Cabrera But Cabrera is first in the American League. 但Cabrera是美聯第一人 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 140.112.25.133
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10/01 22:09, , 1F
這篇不推就說不過去了（對我來說啦
10/01 22:09, 1F
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10/01 22:10, , 2F
最後兩句很矛盾
10/01 22:10, 2F
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10/01 22:11, , 3F
終於有一篇不是信鱒魚教的人寫的了
10/01 22:11, 3F
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10/01 22:11, , 4F
最後一句沒打完?
10/01 22:11, 4F
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10/01 22:12, , 5F
我覺得是刻意凸顯矛盾的
10/01 22:12, 5F
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10/01 22:12, , 6F
我有個問題 普神跟小王子在隊 會增加球隊進季後賽的機會
10/01 22:12, 6F
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10/01 22:12, , 7F
分區領先又不是一個人的功勞..
10/01 22:12, 7F
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10/01 22:13, , 8F
這樣講也怪怪的 老虎只不過是在中區才能以這種戰績佔到龍頭
10/01 22:13, 8F
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10/01 22:15, , 9F
為什麼好像沒考慮似的忽略掉這兩個人的貢獻
10/01 22:15, 9F
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10/01 22:15, , 10F
86W在其他兩區連老三都排不到
10/01 22:15, 10F
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10/01 22:15, , 11F
MVP有獎金嗎 頒給誰有差嗎
10/01 22:15, 11F
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10/01 22:16, , 12F
今年表現沒有那兩位出色 但以帶領球隊拿下分區/晉及季後賽
10/01 22:16, 12F
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10/01 22:16, , 13F
分區領先最有價值??擺明想被打臉 @@
10/01 22:16, 13F
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10/01 22:16, , 14F
我覺得打擊率跟Mauer黃金交叉的可能性滿大的
10/01 22:16, 14F
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10/01 22:17, , 15F
來去評斷MVP 總覺得忽略掉了一些東西
10/01 22:17, 15F
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10/01 22:17, , 16F
只能說XD...
10/01 22:17, 16F
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10/01 22:17, , 17F
打擊三冠王固然偉大 但也僅侷於打擊部分 MVP難道只看打擊?
10/01 22:17, 17F
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10/01 22:18, , 18F
說哪個好都不對（點煙）
10/01 22:18, 18F
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10/01 22:19, , 19F
Verlander：不看打擊阿
10/01 22:19, 19F
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10/01 22:20, , 20F
新外卡制度更顯得分區制有不足的地方 整個美聯排第七的球
10/01 22:20, 20F
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10/01 22:20, , 21F
是說Verlander今年的WAR(BR)還比Miggy高
10/01 22:20, 21F
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10/01 22:21, , 22F
隊可以跟美聯一二名一樣享有免打驟死賽跟主場的權利
10/01 22:21, 22F
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10/01 22:21, , 23F
以前至少外卡跟分區冠軍一樣 現在外卡變得戰績比較好還要
10/01 22:21, 23F
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10/01 22:21, , 24F
多打驟死賽
10/01 22:21, 24F
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10/01 22:23, , 25F
也許以後Selig會開竅 想到辦法解決這種問題 (﹋﹏﹌)
10/01 22:23, 25F
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10/01 22:24, , 26F
直接改成像NBA那樣 取5隊 45名打驟死賽呢
10/01 22:24, 26F
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10/01 22:24, , 27F
是阿...現在外卡要打驟死這麼抖 戰績比所有外卡還差的分區
10/01 22:24, 27F
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10/01 22:24, , 28F
卻可以豁免這個擲骰子賭局
10/01 22:24, 28F
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10/01 22:25, , 29F
那改成進入季後賽的五隊戰績最差的先去打一場好了XD
10/01 22:25, 29F
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10/01 22:26, , 30F
對啊 就想說這樣 只是去掉分區因素 單純看戰績
10/01 22:26, 30F
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10/01 22:26, , 31F
憑戰績好壞打Postseason 45名打驟死賽
10/01 22:26, 31F
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10/01 22:26, , 32F
不平衡賽制下直接比不同分區的勝率不太合理
10/01 22:26, 32F
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10/01 22:27, , 33F
我也是覺得 有著06紅鳥的先例之後 勝率只能單純參考
10/01 22:27, 33F
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10/01 22:28, , 34F
有進季後賽競爭MVP很有利,比戰績輸 但結果老虎進季後
10/01 22:28, 34F
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10/01 22:28, , 35F
因為較強分區內對戰多寡導致勝敗場不好看？
10/01 22:28, 35F
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10/01 22:32, , 36F
記得總體對戰 AL>NL，AL East >AL others
10/01 22:32, 36F
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10/01 22:32, , 37F
是不合理啊 但今年的狀況只是更顯示出美中冠軍更幸運而已
10/01 22:32, 37F
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10/01 22:33, , 38F
之前就會發生分區第四沒季後賽第五卻有的狀況了
10/01 22:33, 38F
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10/01 22:33, , 39F
但今年是連分區第三都要拖下水去玩驟死賽
10/01 22:33, 39F
還有 127 則推文
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10/02 00:15, , 167F
並不是寫英文就不是鄉民...
10/02 00:15, 167F
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10/02 00:15, , 168F
若要以勝敗場數來論高低的話 看各隊想不想落腳美東啊
10/02 00:15, 168F
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10/02 00:16, , 169F
身為Trout迷只認為能新人王,MVP還是該給Miguel才對
10/02 00:16, 169F
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10/02 00:19, , 170F
底特律的報紙，看看就好
10/02 00:19, 170F
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10/02 00:32, , 171F
看到標題就很想推： 唐牛才是食神！！！
10/02 00:32, 171F
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10/02 00:48, , 172F
沒有比帶領球隊拿下分區第一更有價值的？分區有幾個阿
10/02 00:48, 172F
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10/02 00:48, , 173F
所以一年要選幾個MVP出來
10/02 00:48, 173F
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10/02 00:55, , 174F
其實很多美國人信奉一種哲學:winner takes all
10/02 00:55, 174F
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10/02 00:55, , 175F
他們很少管什麼過程比結果重要，四海遊龍，八方雲集什麼的..
10/02 00:55, 175F
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10/02 00:56, , 176F
很多時候只以成敗(結果)論英雄
10/02 00:56, 176F
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10/02 00:56, , 177F
像之前選賽揚獎常常也是過度注重勝敗紀錄
10/02 00:56, 177F
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10/02 00:57, , 178F
我覺得這不是最理想的思考方式，但這是需要慢慢扭轉的。
10/02 00:57, 178F
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10/02 01:06, , 179F
我看法同版大,這是一個根深蒂固的觀念,是影響選票的因素
10/02 01:06, 179F
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10/02 01:07, , 180F
但是作為幫卡布聲援的文章來說,拿分區冠軍來說嘴就很站
10/02 01:07, 180F
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10/02 01:07, , 181F
不住腳,尤其老美喜歡這種王牌帶領球隊的感覺,但天使就是
10/02 01:07, 181F
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10/02 01:08, , 182F
擁有更好的戰績,卻說卡布帶領球隊更出色??
10/02 01:08, 182F
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10/02 01:09, , 183F
這絕對會影響票選的原因,但拿來文章當立論也太弱
10/02 01:09, 183F
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10/02 07:54, , 184F
喔
10/02 07:54, 184F
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10/02 09:37, , 185F
8X勝 so what??XD
10/02 09:37, 185F
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10/02 09:38, , 186F
是不是最強我不知道 那也不重要 我只知道06STL贏了
10/02 09:38, 186F
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10/02 09:39, , 187F
例行賽強 也不代表什麼 00初期的洋基跟運動家不強嗎?
10/02 09:39, 187F
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10/02 09:40, , 188F
01水手不強嗎? 強啊 但為何只能權作參考 如果不
10/02 09:40, 188F
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10/02 09:40, , 189F
就把季後賽廢掉就好了嘛 反正例行賽強就是強啊
10/02 09:40, 189F
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10/02 09:41, , 190F
比什麼Postseason 比什麼WS?
10/02 09:41, 190F
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10/02 09:41, , 191F
原來季後賽的價值在某些人眼中居然如此低 喔不是
10/02 09:41, 191F
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10/02 09:42, , 192F
是戰績差就好像該被屠宰.輕易幹掉?
10/02 09:42, 192F
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10/02 09:42, , 193F
百勝?誰在意啊 管你幾勝幾敗 勝者為王 何況 110勝
10/02 09:42, 193F
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10/02 09:43, , 194F
以上都有可能栽跟頭了 例行賽很強 絕對值得尊敬
10/02 09:43, 194F
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10/02 09:43, , 195F
但MLB季後賽各取4~5個 並不像NBA各取8個
10/02 09:43, 195F
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10/02 09:44, , 196F
實力相差有限 太過注重例行賽並沒有太大意義
10/02 09:44, 196F
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10/02 09:44, , 197F
當然 戰績好 一定存在著某些優勢 但就如此而已
10/02 09:44, 197F
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10/02 09:44, , 198F
進入季後賽就是All brand new day
10/02 09:44, 198F
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10/02 09:45, , 199F
短期賽變數大 是啊 但又如何 這樣說 你怎不去質疑行之
10/02 09:45, 199F
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10/02 09:46, , 200F
有年的季後賽制呢 大家拼死拼活 還不是為了打這在你口
10/02 09:46, 200F
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10/02 09:46, , 201F
中聽起來很沒必要的季後賽 要不例行賽結束 你就別看啦
10/02 09:46, 201F
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10/02 09:47, , 202F
你可以好好肯定他們 喔 百勝喔 不錯 你們是我心中的冠
10/02 09:47, 202F
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10/02 09:47, , 203F
軍 這便足矣! 不會有人有意見的 但現實並非如此
10/02 09:47, 203F
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10/02 09:48, , 204F
例行賽很強 跟WS 都很強 都值得尊敬
10/02 09:48, 204F
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10/02 09:48, , 205F
WSC 更正* 然而過度放大哪個 都不挺正確 也沒那必要
10/02 09:48, 205F
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10/02 09:49, , 206F
賽制就是長這個樣子哪~
10/02 09:49, 206F
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