[外絮] 把JLin放在替補使湖人更好嗎?

看板Jeremy_Lin作者 (senaswong)時間11年前 (2014/12/19 05:08), 11年前編輯推噓26(26036)
留言62則, 29人參與, 最新討論串1/1
Has benching Jeremy Lin improved the Lakers? By Harrison Faigen http://ppt.cc/yb8O 出自SB Nation silverscreenandroll.com 節省時間以下重點式翻譯: When Los Angeles Lakers coach Byron Scott made his decision to change the starting lineup -- sitting Carlos Boozer and Jeremy Lin down to be replaced by Ed Davis and Ronnie Price -- he was widely mocked (by yours truly included). Since losing in their debut, the new lineup has gone 3-2 since the change, including a three-game winning streak sandwiched in between two losses. The Lakers did post a seemingly quality win over the San Antonio Spurs (albeit while Tony Parker was not at his best or healthiest), but otherwise have beaten up on one of the dregs of the league in Minnesota, as well as a mediocre Sacramento outfit literally plagued with viral meningitis to it's best player. That these wins came between blowout losses to a mediocre New Orleans Pelicans team and a just-plain-bad Indiana one, coupled with the wins all being fairly close in margin against weak teams, it leaves one thinking that any assertions this is a sustainable performance improvement is extremely premature. This seems especially true when considering the smaller sample size of performance in which to assess the new starters (106 minutes) versus the old ones (337). With all of these contextual factors out in the open, let's compare, and more specifically look at the performance of Jeremy Lin and Ronnie Price. 當史考特決定用Price和Davis換Lin跟Boozer時遭到很多嘲笑,替換之後戰績3-2。湖人 贏了Parker非完全健康的馬刺,爛隊灰狼,和有個好球員生病的國王。但被中等球隊 鵜鶘和中下的溜馬爆掉。這代表湖人表現進步了嗎? 這是一個小樣本,現在來比較一 下新舊陣容,特別是Lin和Pirce。 Jeremy Lin may "regret" his play thus far, but when looking at his individual numbers and the Lakers primary alternative at the point, it's hard to. Lin has certainly been better than Price. Lin's field goal percentage (42.5), effective field goal percentage (48.1) and three point percentage (33.8) are significantly higher than Price's (29.1%, 34.5% and 22.9%, respectively). While Lin does have a significantly worse AST/TO ratio (1.98 assists for every turnover compared to Price's 3.36), part of this is a sort of "creativity tax," i.e. that Lin is more often asked to create opportunities for teammates, whereas Price is more often just making a simple entry pass or moving the ball along in the offense. Lin很後悔他的表現,其實不用,Lin絕對優於Price(進攻數據),Lin的助攻失誤比遠 低於Price,但這是因為他在進攻的創造力使然,Lin經常製造機會給隊友,而Pirce 只是為傳球而傳球單純只是讓球流動。 However, when looking at statistics that factor in team performance, one can certainly make a case for Price starting over Lin. The two players' offensive ratings are separated by a mere .6, a small enough number to be statistically insignificant, but Price's defensive rating (106.9) is much better than Lin's (113). This information strongly fits the established narrative of Price's defensive superiority. Price shifted into the starting lineup at the same time as Davis (who is the Lakers one player who could be graded as a defensive plus), whereas Lin has played more alongside Boozer, whose defense consists of attempting to kick the ball out of bounds on pick-and-rolls, trying to distract players with the gleam from his head, and a LOT of screaming. Given these have been their standard big man pairings whether they are starting or on the bench, it's hard to definitively separate who is responsible for these numbers just by looking at the statistics. 只有一個數據能使Price看起來比Lin好那就是Defensive Rating,Price 106.9好於Lin 的113,這個數據應證了Pirce比較會防守這句話。然而跟Price移到先發的還有Ed Davis ,他在防守端是一個正影響,跟Lin搭配的是一個防守時會把球踢到界外,試圖用光頭 讓對手分心,和亂吼去擾亂的Boozer,基於這點,很難從數據上去分別到底防守是Lin 比較好還是Pirce。 When judging by the eye test, it's easy to see Jeremy Lin is a far more skilled offensive player than Ronnie Price. He has great speed both in transition and on drives to the rim, although the effectiveness of both has been hampered by how the paint is clogged with bodies due to the Lakers lack of spacing. This is in stark contrast to how Price doesn't seem to do anything particularly well on offense other than give the ball to Kobe and get out of the way. On defense, Price does appear to be a marginally better defender than Lin, definitely more of a pest in how he is constantly trying to steal the ball at every opportunity, although neither of them can even charitably be described as good on that end. When judging by watching them in conjunction with the stats, it seems clear that most of Price's massive advantage on Lin in defensive rating is likely due to playing alongside superior defensive personnel (Davis). 沒有近視的話應該很容易看出Lin的進攻技巧要比Price高上非常多,Lin在transition 和切入速度很快,雖然它的效用在禁區因為湖人沒有spacing擠滿防守大個而被影響 ,這跟Price只會球給Kobe有著相當大的差距,在防守端Price比較惱人和愛抄截看似比 Lin好,但其實攻防兩端都無法被稱為好。就數據而言Price會比Lin好也不過就是因為 Price跟Ed Davis搭配罷了。 Another factor to consider in all of this is whether using a 36-year old Kobe Bryant as the lone creator in the starting five is a wise move. Bryant was already beginning to speak about, and show, signs of fatigue. Having him work as the center of gravity in an offensive lineup that doesn't have a single other player that can be counted on to generate their own shot is not going to help him get his legs back under him. Kobe seems to be making questionable passes and coming up short on a lot of his jump shots late in games. This is where Lin could probably help the most, as his offensive talents should take some of the burden off Kobe in more creatively designed offensive sets, possibly in conjunction with Nick Young providing spacing with his three-point shooting. 另一個考量是老普的先發是為了要給Kobe投球,但看得出Kobe身體的倦怠,進攻上全 部仰賴Kobe沒有其他人可以幫他會讓他更累,Kobe在比賽末端傳球造成一堆失誤, 投籃偏短,Lin在進攻端的天賦可以幫助Kobe不要這麼累,也許搭上一個Young拉開 空間。 All of this begs the question: How have the new starters as a whole fared compared to the old ones? The Lin-Boozer-Bryant-Johnson-Hill lineup posted an offensive rating of 102.7 and defensive rating of 117.7 for a net rating of -15. That is .... not good. However, the new lineup, swapping Price and Davis for Lin and Boozer has only been marginally more effective, with offensive, defensive, and net ratings of 98.6, 111.1, and -12.5. That 98.6 offensive rating would put the Lakers in possession of the sixth-worst offense in the league. The 111.1 defensive rating posted by this new group would still be the worst in the league, which the Lakers are seemingly going to finish with no matter what this year. If that is the case, I personally would rather watch a slightly more effective offense than the Kobe-killing brick-fest we are currently witnessing. That is why I would argue for experimenting with starting Lin over Price, while keeping the Davis over Boozer swap, and seeing if that could help Los Angeles maintain the defensive "improvement" (if one can even call it that) while also getting a slight up-tick in offense as well. Regardless of any changes though, it is clear there aren't many options for lineups on this wretched team, and it will likely continue to be one of the league's worst outfits for the entire season. Byron has the right idea in defense being the main problem, but there's not much that can be done with this roster. 問題來了,到底變陣有變好嗎? 舊的陣容offensive rating 102.7, defensive rating 117.7,新的陣容off rat 98.6, def rat 111.1,所以新的陣容把進攻搞成倒數第六爛 ,而防守還是一樣最爛。我個人還寧願看進攻效率較好的比賽而不是Kobe打鐵秀。 這是我為何不支持Lin被Pirce取代但支持Ed Davis換Boozer,這會讓湖人隊防守進步 進攻也稍微進步。 雖然怎麼變這陣容還是一樣沒救。 感想: 這篇文章只是更加證明把Lin變替補會變好是一個假議題拉...當球迷白X喔.. -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 184.180.220.229 ※ 文章網址: http://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Jeremy_Lin/M.1418936914.A.E2E.html

12/19 05:33, , 1F
BS 從開季Nash受傷就說要讓老普先發了
12/19 05:33, 1F

12/19 05:33, , 2F
後來老普也受傷才不得不讓林先發不是嗎?
12/19 05:33, 2F

12/19 05:56, , 3F
我覺得是在挺林耶,只有我這樣覺得嗎><
12/19 05:56, 3F

12/19 07:01, , 4F
老圃跟hill都會自動找kb 絕不傳給lin
12/19 07:01, 4F

12/19 07:02, , 5F
lin卻常找非kb的人(因為kb會常被盯)傳 應該有關係
12/19 07:02, 5F

12/19 07:02, , 6F
所以大家會看到球出去就回不來,其實都到kb或被投掉
12/19 07:02, 6F

12/19 07:03, , 7F
接到lin的球的人除ED外 看到kb要球立馬傳過去 否則
12/19 07:03, 7F

12/19 07:04, , 8F
就是幫自己刷成績的大好機會 快投喔 媒人搶籃板
12/19 07:04, 8F

12/19 07:53, , 9F
1.球給老大 2.不給老大,進 3.不給老大,不進.
12/19 07:53, 9F

12/19 07:54, , 10F
1加分2不扣分3出現太多就會有問題,老普乖乖選1~
12/19 07:54, 10F

12/19 08:51, , 11F
用光頭嚇人防守是哪招???
12/19 08:51, 11F

12/19 09:27, , 12F
球隊一直輸球成績大好大壞 所以讓BS找到藉口
12/19 09:27, 12F

12/19 09:46, , 13F
豪哥 >>>> 老圃 沒什麼好講的...重點在老大...
12/19 09:46, 13F

12/19 09:55, , 14F
不過高層應該希望由老大打英雄球 衝高人氣
12/19 09:55, 14F

12/19 09:56, , 15F
第四節關鍵持球率比重增加很多 不過命中率就是如此
12/19 09:56, 15F

12/19 09:58, , 16F
這兩場林的史詩外線命中率帶壞他的行情,也讓他一起
12/19 09:58, 16F

12/19 09:59, , 17F
扛了這敗戰黑鍋,這是不可避免而他也一併扛起了
12/19 09:59, 17F

12/19 10:00, , 18F
等林的外線回復到以往4成命中水準後,接下來又會是
12/19 10:00, 18F

12/19 10:00, , 19F
球隊給他定位不明 命中率影響很正常 過幾場才會正常
12/19 10:00, 19F

12/19 10:00, , 20F
各種交易帶風向的媒體消息了,湖人記者總是要吃飯的
12/19 10:00, 20F

12/19 10:03, , 21F
個人認為跟定向不明關係不大,畢竟有好幾球都是定點
12/19 10:03, 21F

12/19 10:03, , 22F
空檔的機會,但他沒把握住
12/19 10:03, 22F

12/19 10:04, , 23F
定位跟定點不一樣=.=" 還得要重新磨合替補陣容
12/19 10:04, 23F

12/19 10:05, , 24F
季初打得都是一級強隊,最近這一波的對手確實較弱!
12/19 10:05, 24F

12/19 10:06, , 25F
這幾場贏的幾乎都是傷兵球隊
12/19 10:06, 25F

12/19 10:07, , 26F
額,定位不明是指先發替補、出場時間不固定對吧...
12/19 10:07, 26F

12/19 10:07, , 27F
那根外線空檔命中不佳的確沒關係啊...
12/19 10:07, 27F

12/19 10:08, , 28F
不是 各種原因
12/19 10:08, 28F

12/19 10:12, , 29F
林先把季初的準度找回來吧 最近命中真的很慘
12/19 10:12, 29F

12/19 10:20, , 30F
命中率找會來+1,不管定位如何,至少命中率不要一
12/19 10:20, 30F

12/19 10:20, , 31F
直下修
12/19 10:20, 31F

12/19 10:56, , 32F
大家都知道,不是嗎?只是bs拉不下臭臉承認而已
12/19 10:56, 32F

12/19 10:58, , 33F
推翻譯
12/19 10:58, 33F

12/19 11:10, , 34F
都沒在檢討先發的Price 簡直莫名其妙
12/19 11:10, 34F

12/19 11:11, , 35F
打完就一堆人在說Lin如何如何 先發都很好就是了 =.=
12/19 11:11, 35F

12/19 11:15, , 36F
因為老普懂得過半場給球給kobe 當然沒這個問題
12/19 11:15, 36F

12/19 11:16, , 37F
老普幹得好 讓kobe舒爽
12/19 11:16, 37F

12/19 11:19, , 38F
老普領的錢太少沒必要檢討XD
12/19 11:19, 38F

12/19 11:24, , 39F
本篇寫得很中肯
12/19 11:24, 39F

12/19 12:10, , 40F
感謝翻譯
12/19 12:10, 40F

12/19 12:13, , 41F
感謝翻譯
12/19 12:13, 41F

12/19 12:21, , 42F
感謝翻譯
12/19 12:21, 42F

12/19 13:28, , 43F
推翻譯,然後這篇根本證明教練眼睛大概瞎了
12/19 13:28, 43F

12/19 14:24, , 44F
感謝翻譯
12/19 14:24, 44F

12/19 15:46, , 45F
球給老大才是真的 其他有的沒的都是藉口
12/19 15:46, 45F

12/19 16:07, , 46F
賣票 保護好 不能太拼命防守漏洞 有傷怎麼辦
12/19 16:07, 46F

12/19 16:47, , 47F
感謝翻譯
12/19 16:47, 47F

12/19 17:47, , 48F
http://ppt.cc/kuH8 湖人部落客也是寫一樣的話題
12/19 17:47, 48F

12/19 17:48, , 49F
結論現在第二陣容進攻防守都比第一陣容好 (從offens
12/19 17:48, 49F

12/19 17:49, , 50F
e/defense eff+-來看第二陣容完勝), 第二陣容是換陣
12/19 17:49, 50F

12/19 17:50, , 51F
後湖人還能贏三場的原因.....
12/19 17:50, 51F

12/19 17:52, , 52F
當然Lin扮演很重要腳色
12/19 17:52, 52F

12/19 18:02, , 53F
想看LIN和ED搭配 啊哩嗚還是比較爽
12/19 18:02, 53F

12/19 18:02, , 54F
沒啥好說的 給數據 下替補的這五場 先發Deff -19
12/19 18:02, 54F

12/19 18:03, , 55F
替補 Deff +8 聯盟還可以排到第8
12/19 18:03, 55F

12/19 18:09, , 56F
整季數據 先發-16.2 替補-0.8 變化之快速...
12/19 18:09, 56F

12/19 18:17, , 57F
林替補對湖人比較好 在狀元之路上
12/19 18:17, 57F
※ 編輯: senaswong (184.180.220.229), 12/19/2014 18:19:32

12/19 18:38, , 58F
其實也沒啥好討論的,Lin的影響力就放在那,雖然不
12/19 18:38, 58F

12/19 18:38, , 59F
是什麼明星巨星,但BS能用成這樣也不簡單了..
12/19 18:38, 59F

12/19 22:46, , 60F
BS就看牌子辦事 而不會有效利用老大優勢及更有效得
12/19 22:46, 60F

12/19 22:46, , 61F
分方式 任由老大打鐵 也不敢吭一聲
12/19 22:46, 61F

12/22 21:56, , 62F
替補可以阿~~但至少要有30分鐘以上
12/22 21:56, 62F
文章代碼(AID): #1Kaq9Iuk (Jeremy_Lin)