[外絮] ISOLATION SCORING

看板Jeremy_Lin作者 (慾望深厚的老衲)時間12年前 (2013/12/16 20:36), 編輯推噓38(38055)
留言93則, 21人參與, 最新討論串1/1
http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=248305 火箭論壇的分析 ISOLATION SCORING, Statistical analysis of LIN vs HARDEN and the top 50 scorers ISO rankings every corner of the internet has an opinion on ISO ball it seems. Who is efficient at this particular shot and who is really really bad and should be getting ridiculed for their continued shot selection which is hurting their team. First lets look at the battle between Harden vs Lin James Harden VS Jeremy Lin Both terrific offensive players who have shown to be proven scoeres when required, the debate between Harden and Lin in relation to isolations is intriguing. so who is statistically better? http://ppt.cc/ByBQ (harden's data is in the white rows shown before Lins data in the grey rows) Thats right, they are exactly the same on PPP (points per possession), interesting after the hot start got off to at the start of the year Lin got off to and the sluggish start James got off to, that the data still shows both players converting at .97 PPS ranking them 17th in the league in qualified players. Although harden has almost 4x the amount of shots and only converting on 36.6% of shots for Harden to still be converting at a rate of .97 is exceptional when compared to other notable players in the league. 簡單說 在ISO的表現上 Lin跟 Harden目前為止幾乎是同樣出色 聯盟球員中同樣排名17 http://ppt.cc/3Rsa also the table above shows Houston as a whole performance in the isolations. We rank middle of the pack at 16th and have a PPP of .81 which are both below out 2 primary ball handlers. 然而火箭整體在ISO的表現只能算是中下 排名16 (總體攻擊表現倒是排名第3) How the Top 50 scorers perform in isolations. note (lin does not qualify for this list) Im sure before you look at the graph i created you already have some wild guesses, for instance "rudy gay will be inefficient" and from creating this their wasnt really that many concerns. The biggest surprise to me was Lebron only boasting a PPP on isolations of .85 which compared to the average for percentage of isolations he takes is below average. http://ppt.cc/PQL7 - Harden is above the average for the amount of shots taken. note even though Parsons takes only 7.4% of his shots been isolations but converts them at a terrible .54 PPP. Perhaps its the small sample size and will be interesting to watch his stats. - also secondly although dwight qualifies for the top 50 scorers he has only taken 2 isolation plays for the year which equates to .5% of his total shots and has not made one. - if you would like to know where Lin would be on this graph then he would be positioned just to the left of Dragic which like James Harden is above league average - Rudy gay is Rudy Gay, he takes the most ISO's for the amount of shots he takes and is terribly inefficient - Eric Bledsoe is ranked no.1 by synergy sports at 1.32 PPP as Wesley Matthews 1.5PPP has not taken enough attempts. 高富帥在ISO上的表現非常差,PPP只有.54 (儘管有可能有小樣本偏差) (ISO在他的攻擊手段中只佔了7.4%) 上面那張圖是前五十得分手的圖 Lin的分數跟出手次數都很低所以不會上榜 如果想知道他在上面那張ISO圖會排名哪裡 根據出手數量還有效率會在Gragic左邊 Rudy Gay ISO最多 但是效率頗差 目前ISO最強的是太陽的Bledsoe 1.5PPP領先群雄 (難怪太陽今年這麼強 一個水準以上的抓雞跟第一名的布雷獸...) Conclusion Whether it frustrates you or not, just think about it, it could be a whole lot worse if we didn't have efficient scores like Harden and Lin. Also note that Harden has improved his isolation scoring from .93 PPP to this years .97 even with his slow start to the year. Things are looking up Clutchfans, we are coming 結論 如果沒有哈登跟Lin這兩個高效單打得分手的話會頗慘的 (好像廢話 可是其他不重要懶得翻) ===================================== 重點節錄 1.哈登跟Lin兩個人的ISO很強 不過哈登的ISO比重非常大 Lin就不是很高 2.火箭整體ISO的表現上不怎樣 只有聯盟中游水準 (上面那分析不曉得有沒有扣掉Lin跟哈登 沒有的話那頗慘的...雖然也只限ISO的部分) -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 134.208.32.48 ghghfftjack:轉錄至看板 Rockets 12/16 20:37

12/16 20:38, , 1F
林的iso很怕包夾~~還需要加強
12/16 20:38, 1F

12/16 20:42, , 2F
推推!! 希望有別隊來看貨~這裡有好貨快來搶喔~~
12/16 20:42, 2F

12/16 20:47, , 3F
不不不...一定有什麼地方弄錯了~~Lin的ISO不強的~~
12/16 20:47, 3F

12/16 20:48, , 4F
等他打開就可以克服缺點了 實戰經驗少阿
12/16 20:48, 4F

12/16 20:54, , 5F
推樓上 都沒有球權阿 怎麼打?
12/16 20:54, 5F
※ 編輯: ghghfftjack 來自: 134.208.32.48 (12/16 20:55)

12/16 20:56, , 6F
這季ISO可是一堆炸彈洗出來的 去年還不知道他ISO這麼猛
12/16 20:56, 6F

12/16 21:05, , 7F
林樣本數太少,數據好都是錯覺,火箭iso有鬍子就夠了
12/16 21:05, 7F

12/16 21:21, , 8F
XDD 怎麼回事
12/16 21:21, 8F

12/16 21:22, , 9F
我只希望他平平安安
12/16 21:22, 9F

12/16 21:25, , 10F
林ISO時好像是會看人吃 ..不會硬打
12/16 21:25, 10F

12/16 21:34, , 11F
他比較偏速度型 然後抓時間差切入成功率蠻高的
12/16 21:34, 11F

12/16 21:34, , 12F
等下又會有海巡出去說林迷黑哈登和CP了(攤手)
12/16 21:34, 12F

12/16 21:50, , 13F
腦補又怎樣黑又怎樣? 你祖罵我就是不爽就是要黑咬我啊
12/16 21:50, 13F

12/16 21:52, , 14F
要說要罵就說好了 老娘理直氣壯怕你啊!!!!!!!!!!哼!!!
12/16 21:52, 14F

12/16 22:02, , 15F
傳球功力好 會不會也間接提升 iso 的成功...
12/16 22:02, 15F

12/16 22:03, , 16F
答案是不會 傳球就是傳球
12/16 22:03, 16F

12/16 22:07, , 17F
我等著看火箭把Lin送走後會怎樣 被打爆吧
12/16 22:07, 17F

12/16 22:07, , 18F
我覺得不一定 擋拆傳的好 切入威力也會提升
12/16 22:07, 18F

12/16 22:08, , 19F
ISO除了乾淨俐落的進球外很看裁判哨音 大多數人不以ISO
12/16 22:08, 19F

12/16 22:08, , 20F
當主要武器
12/16 22:08, 20F

12/16 22:08, , 21F
哈哈 不會拉 人家可是B3耶~ 我十分看好他們
12/16 22:08, 21F

12/16 22:08, , 22F
檔拆就是檔拆了 那不是ISO
12/16 22:08, 22F

12/16 22:13, , 23F
阿 抱歉 我一直在腦內跳針文中是指ISO非切入
12/16 22:13, 23F

12/16 22:13, , 24F
所以整體而言 是ISO得分效率高還是擋拆?
12/16 22:13, 24F

12/16 22:13, , 25F
順帶一提Lin做為檔拆發動者FG 51.3% 排21名
12/16 22:13, 25F

12/16 22:14, , 26F
ISO FG40.7% 18名
12/16 22:14, 26F

12/16 22:15, , 27F
當然不是說ISO就比檔拆差 這兩個都是後衛取分的主力武器
12/16 22:15, 27F

12/16 22:17, , 28F
ISO絕對可以避免傳球帶來的失誤
12/16 22:17, 28F

12/16 22:18, , 29F
檔拆則是較穩定的拿分手段 只要不奶油的話...
12/16 22:18, 29F

12/16 22:31, , 30F
某西馬上中槍XDDD
12/16 22:31, 30F

12/16 22:34, , 31F
不過Lin在傳球的掌握度上要多加強 或更果決攻擊籃框也行
12/16 22:34, 31F

12/16 22:36, , 32F
往往傳球TO 都是太刻意傳造成
12/16 22:36, 32F

12/16 22:43, , 33F
其實OT也有因為隊友跑位不積極 卻算在林頭上 (<-酸隊友
12/16 22:43, 33F

12/16 22:46, , 34F
這跟火箭對Lin的定位不明有很大的關係...我選擇不黑球員
12/16 22:46, 34F

12/16 22:47, , 35F
在火箭P&R man最好的DH 大都跟鬍子配合演繹
12/16 22:47, 35F

12/16 22:48, , 36F
Lin很少看到能跟DH來個配合的 鬍子缺賽時才有些印象
12/16 22:48, 36F

12/16 22:48, , 37F
Lin得到擋拆機會感覺真的不多...
12/16 22:48, 37F

12/16 22:49, , 38F
印象中即便Harden養傷期間每場出現跟DH P&R配合的次數
12/16 22:49, 38F

12/16 22:49, , 39F
應該也不會超過兩次
12/16 22:49, 39F

12/16 22:50, , 40F
去年是大家都還不熟所以擋拆也Call的哩哩辣辣
12/16 22:50, 40F

12/16 22:50, , 41F
今年是戰術都變了 Lin自己在戰術上的地位也變了...
12/16 22:50, 41F

12/16 22:51, , 42F
Lin根本被叫去當SG+等球射手用 火箭也不要他練默契
12/16 22:51, 42F

12/16 22:52, , 43F
最令人諷刺的是 等球還等輸命中率爆爛的小貝...
12/16 22:52, 43F

12/16 22:53, , 44F
說實在 這種對林的使用法 林跟DH的默契不怎樣 跟TJ、ASIK還
12/16 22:53, 44F

12/16 22:54, , 45F
不錯... / 今天看哈登打 他過半場會傳給PB 但當他搭配林時
12/16 22:54, 45F

12/16 22:55, , 46F
卻鮮少主動傳給林 真不知道他們之間是如何分配
12/16 22:55, 46F

12/16 22:56, , 47F
要談論Harden跟Lin之間的搭配問題可能就要腦補很多了
12/16 22:56, 47F

12/16 22:56, , 48F
不要用腦補這個老是會引起戰爭的字眼
12/16 22:56, 48F

12/16 22:56, , 49F
那就用模擬思考來講好了 XD
12/16 22:56, 49F

12/16 22:58, , 50F
不如這樣說好了 Lin持球過半場的時候Harden不是先出來要球
12/16 22:58, 50F

12/16 22:59, , 51F
不然就是站45度角忙自己的
12/16 22:59, 51F

12/16 23:00, , 52F
所以先不談什麼搭配還默契啥的 我認為教練組就是沒給明確的
12/16 23:00, 52F

12/16 23:00, , 53F
指令說 假設Lin這時候在盤球然後大家四散開來 請問這時候
12/16 23:00, 53F

12/16 23:00, , 54F
Lin可能會做什麼? 可能會需要什麼支援?
12/16 23:00, 54F

12/16 23:01, , 55F
我看到的狀況卻是只要Lin盤球在準備發動的機會下
12/16 23:01, 55F

12/16 23:01, , 56F
大多時候頂多Call TJ或者DH或者Asik出來幫擋看看
12/16 23:01, 56F

12/16 23:02, , 57F
然後就我觀察這樣擋拆的發動即使有了也常常不完整
12/16 23:02, 57F

12/16 23:03, , 58F
結果就會反過來說Lin自己試著撕裂防守圈突破 或者傳給
12/16 23:03, 58F

12/16 23:03, , 59F
Parsons或Harden甚或TJ
12/16 23:03, 59F

12/16 23:04, , 60F
所以結論 我只能說Lin在那邊盤球 不論Harden在不在
12/16 23:04, 60F

12/16 23:04, , 61F
都不會得到非常明確的支援或者小組搭配
12/16 23:04, 61F

12/16 23:05, , 62F
我甚至認為去年Lin得到的支援都還比今年多了很多
12/16 23:05, 62F

12/16 23:06, , 63F
今年的Lin就是個如果有需要的時候要自己來或者自己想辦法
12/16 23:06, 63F

12/16 23:06, , 64F
的隊員 至於有Harden同時在場的時候 請把球給Harden
12/16 23:06, 64F

12/16 23:07, , 65F
這樣子隊友就會比較知道怎麼動了
12/16 23:07, 65F

12/16 23:08, , 66F
至於Harden持球的時候 我推論火箭要求Harden自己處理
12/16 23:08, 66F

12/16 23:09, , 67F
讓Harden自己去學習 至於Harden怎麼判斷給球跟主動出擊
12/16 23:09, 67F

12/16 23:09, , 68F
這個就要看Harden自己的想法了
12/16 23:09, 68F

12/16 23:13, , 69F
真要說的話 我認為甚至Harden都搞不太清楚Lin跟他同時在
12/16 23:13, 69F

12/16 23:13, , 70F
場的時候到底要讓Lin幹嘛
12/16 23:13, 70F

12/16 23:22, , 71F
Big 3 + 替補豪 同場的陣勢是這樣
12/16 23:22, 71F

12/16 23:23, , 72F
1.哈登帶 直接由哈登決定要給內線單打 擋拆 盤球準備iso
12/16 23:23, 72F

12/16 23:24, , 73F
2.阿豪帶 過半場SF繞45度出來 阿豪公式化把球交出
12/16 23:24, 73F

12/16 23:25, , 74F
哈登從另一邊繞到弧頂 SF決定要給內線單打或給哈登
12/16 23:25, 74F

12/16 23:27, , 75F
一樣的是阿豪沒事以後就去底角 除非以上公式受到防守阻撓
12/16 23:27, 75F

12/16 23:27, , 76F
..抱歉插個話 簡單來說就是盤球過半場後給球還有底角射手
12/16 23:27, 76F

12/16 23:27, , 77F
或者是其他人開始發動進攻了 阿豪才能繞到45度角接應
12/16 23:27, 77F

12/16 23:28, , 78F
恩...這樣說起來其實定位也蠻明確的...
12/16 23:28, 78F

12/16 23:30, , 79F
基本上阿豪直接給哈登的球不多 火箭戰術就是要先繞一下SF
12/16 23:30, 79F

12/16 23:33, , 80F
但如果是阿豪頂鬍子打替補SG的時候 阿豪可沒有這種繞出來
12/16 23:33, 80F

12/16 23:35, , 81F
到弧頂拿球主導攻勢的接球 (很少) 反而PB小AB還會自己
12/16 23:35, 81F

12/16 23:35, , 82F
所謂的繞一下SF是指請SF位置或者PF位置的人出來接應嗎?
12/16 23:35, 82F

12/16 23:35, , 83F
當起攻勢發動者......
12/16 23:35, 83F

12/16 23:36, , 84F
恩...所以簡單來說就是Lin變得比較不是攻勢發動者這樣
12/16 23:36, 84F

12/16 23:43, , 85F
我覺得是SF餵給DH以後 give&go空切威力比較夠
12/16 23:43, 85F

12/16 23:43, , 86F
所以火箭要這樣讓SF決定餵鬍子或DH
12/16 23:43, 86F

12/16 23:44, , 87F
原來如此 其實也可以理解
12/16 23:44, 87F

12/16 23:45, , 88F
火箭空切最好的除了Parsons剩下TJ跟GS了吧
12/16 23:45, 88F

12/16 23:46, , 89F
然後GS沒有投射能力 不太能跟Howard配
12/16 23:46, 89F

12/17 00:18, , 90F
記得總版有人拿數據打臉說CP ISO切入好
12/17 00:18, 90F
ISO不完全等於切入 假若沒意外你說的 總板那個是說CP切入命中率高 ※ 編輯: ghghfftjack 來自: 134.208.32.48 (12/17 00:20)

12/17 00:36, , 91F
這樣的話三國分析真的蠻有邏輯性的
12/17 00:36, 91F

12/17 00:36, , 92F
感謝分享
12/17 00:36, 92F

12/17 10:15, , 93F
單論持球單打,火箭後場還有一個小AB、只是比較沒愛 ...
12/17 10:15, 93F
文章代碼(AID): #1IhlFBjf (Jeremy_Lin)