[閒聊] ATLC Reckful事件

看板Hearthstone作者 (鍋貼)時間8年前 (2015/07/06 15:16), 8年前編輯推噓15(23836)
留言67則, 36人參與, 最新討論串1/1
版上沒看到相關討論,我直接貼一篇社論上來 這件事情蠻嚴重的,在國外引起了許多討論,有些字眼/行為在國外是很敏感的 簡單來說就是Reckful因為講了一個Rape,當場被Amaz換下主播台 Amaz的說法是: 他講了很多攻擊性的字眼 Reddit串: http://tinyurl.com/pnkxcgy 暴雪社群經理的回應: https://twitter.com/CM_Zeriyah/status/616680848574779392 That is not something we are ok with, and we are discussing it with the organizers. "這不是我們能接受的事情,我們正在跟主辦單位討論如何處置" 下面翻譯我就直翻了,意思大概到就好 原文: http://tinyurl.com/nrt2glb Editorial: When professionalism takes a day off 社論:當專業休假的時候 There are some things you don’t say. There are occasions which require a person to have a certain demeanor, a code of conduct if you’d like. You do not make obituary jokes in a nursing home. You do not say in almost casual tone during an official press conference that your country has “tortured some folks,” although God knows this has produced more than enough jokes towards the Obama cabinet. 很多事情你會選擇不說。在某些場合需要保持風度或是一定的行為守則。你不會在 養老院講關於死亡的笑話,你不會在記者會上隨口說出你的國家"有在刑求某些人" (註:這邊指歐巴馬失言事件),雖然沒人知道這會對歐巴馬內閣造成多少麻煩。 And you do not say “rape” in the biggest Hearthstone tournament of the year, in front of tens of thousands of people watching. 你也不會在今年最大的爐石聯賽上,數萬個觀眾面前,說出"Rape"(強暴)這個字 If you missed last night’s broadcast of Archon’s Team League Championship (ATLC for short), you’re in for a story with a pinch of drama. Paired with hosting and casting veteran Dan “Frodan” Chou was popular streamer, entertainer and loudmouth Byron “Reckful” Bernstein. Known for his colorful vocabulary and no-two-shits-given attitude, Reckful boasts a large following, one of the biggest in Hearthstone’s scene in fact. Seeing him appear in the ATLC, the $250,000 league organized by Team Archon, almost came that kind of confusion which you can kind of understand. With so much money on the line, viewership numbers are and should be the primary concern of the organizers, and securing the services of someone of Reckful’s stock is a smart move. On paper. 如果你錯過了昨晚ATLC聯賽的轉撥,那你該來聽聽這個抓馬。跟老牌主播Frodan搭配的是 大嘴巴的人氣實況主/藝人Reckful。事實上,Reckful以各式各樣的詞彙和"管他去死"的 態度吸引了大批的追隨人數,讓他成為了最大的爐石實況主之一。從這邊你不難理解他 的出現會在總獎金$250,000美金的ATLC聯賽上造成一定程度的混亂。在如此高額獎金的 聯賽上,收視人數必然是主辦單位最關心的議題,也因此,確保Reckful的播報品質是個 明智之舉,至少在字面上是。 It didn’t take long for things to go awry. The tandem between Reckful and Frodan couldn’t have been more off. While sometimes differences in behavior and style can result in a colorful commentary experience, this was not the case. Where Frodan tried to salvage the broadcast and offer insight on the players, the teams, and the games, Reckful couldn’t have been bothered less. 但事情馬上就失控了。Reckful和Fordan之間的配合差到不能再差了。雖然有時候兩個 行為或是風格不同的人配合會激發出更絢爛的火花,但這次完全不是這樣。當Fordan 想要把主題拉回爐石本身,把焦點放在選手、戰隊、還有比賽上,Reckful還是滔滔不絕 的自己講自己的。 While general critique could and will be shot Reckful’s way, it was one word in particular which rightfully angered the community. No matter the context, “a Swipe would rape him,” is just an offensive and insensitive thing to say from this official of a podium. And while that was what lighted the fuse, Reckful’s follow-up behavior did not aid his cause. He continued to behave inappropriately, showing completel disinterest and lack of knowledge and research done towards the tournament he was supposed to cast. 當大家準備,或是將要開始批評Reckful的時候,一個字直接激怒了所有人。先不管前因 後果,從一個播報口中說出"A Swipe would rape him"(一個揮擊會幹爆他)這句話就是 一件充滿攻擊性和不理性的事情。當這條導火線被點燃之後,Reckful接下來做的事情 仍然讓他繼續被扣分 - 他繼續展現出對爐石毫無興趣的態度,同時他也缺乏作為一個 播報需要知道的知識以及事前研究。 Those who follow Hearthstone for a longer time would remember that this is in fact not Reckful’s first time acting like that in a tournament environment. His casting of Lord of the Arena 2 alongside fellow streamer Octavian “ Kripparrian” Morosan was also a subject to negative feedback, following derogative and condescending attitude towards the female participants, namely DeerNadia and Rumei "Hafu" Wang. The case later brought up and discussed on popular Hearthstone podcasts like The Angry Chicken, where a very valid comment was made: You can talk however you want in your circle of friends or personal stream, but you never do that in an official tournament, regardless of how “casual” and “laid back” the atmosphere can be. Ultimately, Tempo Storm, the team which Reckful belongs to, had to issue an official apology. 對於那些一直有在追爐石新聞的人來說,這不是Reckful第一次在聯賽中做這種事情了。 他跟Kripp播報Lord of the Arena 2(競技場之王2)的時候一樣是獲得了負面評價, 因為他在播報中顯露出了對女性玩家Hafu和Deernadia歧視的態度。這件事情在一些 人氣播客平台像是The Angry Chicken上面被廣泛討論,最後有一個非常重要的評論 是 "你在你的朋友圈或是自己的實況上要講什麼隨便你,但是你絕對不能在一個官方 聯賽上講不該講的話,即便這個聯賽標榜著「輕鬆」或是「悠閒」。在最後,Reckful 的戰隊,Tempo Storm,為這件事情發表了道歉聲明。 註:道歉聲明 http://tinyurl.com/pzsg56v While the “rape” comment was obviously made without malicious intent and is very much a part of the gamer’s slang, it could easily be seen as controversial. On social media, fellow journalists went on to say this is promoting of “rape culture” – a concept coined in the 70s to describe the normalized nature of the act and trivialization of the word – and one could agree to some extent. And though I personally wouldn't, throwing around words like “rape” without so much as a second of thought is concerning. This shouldn’t be read as me being convinced that Reckful consciously promotes and endorses rape. It’s simply the textbook definition of inappropriate behavior and it's something that will grab the attention in a way you'd rather not. 即使"Rape"說出來的時候沒有惡意,甚至可能只是個口頭禪,他仍然會造成很多爭議。 在社交媒體上,記者們會說你這樣做會助長"強暴文化",一個70年代開始圍繞著這個 行為的觀念。就我個人而言我不會因為你講了這個字就把你歸類到助長強暴文化的 分類中,他只是定義上一個很不洽當的行為,同時他會讓你因為講出他而惹上很多麻煩。 There are a number of fallacies that can – and surely will – be mentioned in regards to this incident. “It’s all for the entertainment, it’s what brings the numbers,” is the first and the most wrong one, which is a terrible excuse. When the only way to excite your viewership is condoning crass language, then there are bigger problems to your concept than your casting line-up. Call me crazy, but I believe a tournament of that size on one of Twitch’s most popular Hearthstone channels can generate a following without employing a bigot. Professionalism should never be sacrificed to the detriment of production quality or good taste. 關於這件事情,有些人可能,或是一定會說,"這都是為了娛樂,這也就是為什麼會有 那麼人想看"。這個謬論將是第一個,也是錯最大的藉口。如果今天你認為加入這些不 堪入目的詞彙才能提昇你的收視率,那你的觀念可能比你的播報陣容問題更大。你可能 認為我瘋了,但我相信今天在Twitch上一個如此大的爐石聯賽並不需要僱用一個那麼 偏激的人來吸引大批觀眾。專業永遠不該屈於降低品質。 註: 最後那句話有點不知道怎麼翻,大概的意思是說真正的專業不是靠降低你播報的 品質來拉攏觀眾。 “If you don’t like it, don’t watch it,” others will say and they’d be missing the point, too. We’re not talking about why buy vanilla ice cream if you don’t fancy the flavor. This is not a matter of personal taste. If anything, the flow of logic is the other way around. With viewership numbers being the index against which success in all broadcasting is measured, “don’ t watch” is what the horn of the media hearse sounds like. "不爽不要看" 其他人可能會這樣說,但這是錯的。我們不是在討論你要不要買香草 冰淇淋,這不是個人喜好的問題。要說的話,這整件事情是另一個邏輯。當觀看人數 是決定一個實況成功與否的因素的時候,"不要看"就是一個實況的墳場。 註: 最後一句話我真的看不懂,這邊請翻譯強者幫忙更正 “That’s part of who Reckful is, give him a break,” is the least valid excuse of all. As was mentioned earlier in the article, a change of demeanor is necessary when publicly representing an organization. This is not the Reckful Team League. It’s Archon’s, and for the few hours that you’re on stream, you’re the voice and face of Archon as much as Amaz, or Firebat, or Orange are. Those who are not convinced such a change can happen, should revisit the appearance of Sebastian “Forsen” Fors at DreamHack Bucharest, who underwent a total makeover, leaving his streaming personality and home and delivering a polished, professional and educating product which still carried the essence of what makes Forsen enjoyable to watch. "Reckful就是這樣的人,饒了他吧" 是一個最智障的藉口。就像文章前面所說的, 當你代表了一個聯賽,態度的改變是必須的。這不是Reckful聯賽,這是Archon聯賽 ,當你在實況上的時候,你的臉和聲音就代表了Archon,跟Amaz、Firebat、Orange 一樣。那些認為Reckful改不掉習慣的人,請去看看Forsen在DreamHack Bucharest 播報的VOD,他把他實況上的許多東西都丟棄了,改頭換面,為觀眾呈現了一個洗練、 專業、富有教育意義的播報,但同時仍然保存了許多他有趣的本質。 If you believe saying “rape” was the least of Reckful’s offenses during last night’s ATLC, that too much attention is being paid to it and that there are other offenses that need mentioning, you’re spot on. A single mention of the word could’ve gone almost unnoticed if not for the repeatedly displayed disinterest in doing the job he was hired for. Before he would ultimately get replaced by Amaz, Reckful gave a crash course on the “DONT’s ” of professional casting. It’s not OK to refer to a team you do not know as “these Asians” when they’re the strongest team of the east. Or to refer to a player you do not know as “that other guy” when he’s one of Hearthstone’s veterans, competing in tournaments since the earliest days. Or to mispronounce a player's name. Just like it's absolutely unacceptable to not pay attention to the games and to openly admit that preparing for a casting gig is not important. 如果你認為"Rape"可能只是Reckful在ATLC播報中犯下的唯一錯誤,那你可能太注意 這個地方而沒發現其他值得注意的部份。如果他沒有一而再再而三的心不在焉,那 講錯一個字也不會引起太多的注意。在Reckful被Amaz撤換前,Reckful犯下了許多 專業播報的大忌。因為你不認識他們就把東方最強的隊伍叫做"這些亞洲人",這一點 都不OK。因為你不認識這個玩家就把他叫做"另外一個人"(偏偏他是爐石的沙場老手), 這一點都不OK。唸錯選手的名字、不專注在比賽上,甚至承認沒有為轉撥做任何準備 都是絕對不能被接受的。 註: http://www.twitch.tv/reckful/v/6857265?t=4m21s Reckful被撤換之後的第一次實況,他有說到他真的不知道Team Celestial,所以他想問 另外一個主播(也就是Frodan)關於這隻隊伍的細節 Towards the end of this editorial, the other party who bears the fault for Reckful’s appearance ought to also be mentioned – the organizers themselves. It’s understandably difficult to find popular casters who are available, willing to cast and/or are not playing in the ATLC itself. However, employing a personality comes with understanding his or her quirks and peculiarities and being aware they can and most likely will appear on stream. I’m sure Amaz and Co. were aware of what they were getting into; I do not believe for a second they were utterly shocked and surprised of what happened during the broadcast. If this was a bet, based on a hope that Reckful would not be his true self, then it was a lousy bet and one you shouldn’t make while operating a tournament of this magnitude. 在這篇社論的最後,需要提到一個得承擔找錯人(Reckful)這個錯誤的團體 - 主辦單位。 我們可以理解要找到一個不打ATLC的人氣主播是多難的事情,然而,找一個人代表要 了解他可能會在實況上講什麼話以及表現出怎樣的特色。我相信Amaz和他的團隊知道 他們在做什麼,我不認為當他們知道出包之後會特別驚訝或是驚嚇。如果這是一個賭注 ,賭Reckful在ATLC上不會跟他平常一樣,那這是一個很糟糕的賭注,而且你不應該 在如此大規模的聯賽上賭下去。 Following the controversy, Reckful was let go of the ATLC casting desk and replaced by Amaz. Speaking to industry insiders, the organizers promised this was Reckful’s first and last appearance as a caster in the tournament. And while applaudable, this fallout is almost ironically in contrast with ATLC’s vision of what is offensive and what isn’t. If saying “rape” is not OK, how can a team slogan reading “Bringing the cancer” on a logo designed by ATLC’s organizers themselves be justified by the “context”? As I wrote on Twitter myself, I'm not the one to be offended even though I have close friends who've experienced rape and others who have fought cancer, but I'm not all people and the fact that saying or writing these things can be considered normal is mind-boggling. "Context" is not an universal safety vest which makes things more acceptible. Quite the opposite - it's a dangerous enabler of misconduct. The fact that we're watching a video game should not make a difference: A professional broadcast production must adhere to the written and unwritten standards of the industry and the modern society. 爭議發生之後,Reckful被踢下主播台並且由Amaz暫代。根據內線消息指出,主辦單位 決定這將是Reckful第一次以及最後一次在聯賽上播報。 文章的後半段,簡單來說就是 https://twitter.com/ArchonAmazHS/status/615203531960659968 ForsenBoys的標語是 "Bringing the Cancer" 作者有朋友被強暴,也有朋友正在對抗Cancer(癌症),他認為今天Rape不妥當結果弄 了個Cancer簡直是自打嘴巴,希望業界有個一定的標準什麼可用什麼不可用,不然 對於無知的人很傷。 Speaking of which, going on stream to say one of your casters was replaced due to being too offensive is not the way to do damage control either. Iconic esports host and presenter Paul “ReDeYe” Chaloner has “don’t point to mistakes in your production while it is ongoing” as one of the core rules of shoutcasting and broadcasting, and it’s absolutely vital. Honestly, the Pinnacle 4 qualifiers should’ve been enough of a lesson. 這段大概就是講說,當天做得很難看,至少要等當天播報結束再撤換 在Pinnacle 4已經做得很難看了,這次又來一次 註: Pinnacle 4的狀況是海選的選手打輸了結果被邀請進複賽 最後的處理方式是Pinnacle 4 沒有Blizzcon積分 In the end, I’m not saying a person like Reckful should never get any casting jobs, ever. There’s a place and time for everything. But acting in an unprofessional and insensitive manner when the occasion demands the opposite is not only unacceptable: It’s unforgivable, tasteless and appalling. 最後就是拍拍reckful說你還有機會,但是你這次這樣做實在是天理不容 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 76.167.141.11 ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Hearthstone/M.1436167004.A.0A3.html

07/06 15:21, , 1F
要觀眾"不要看" = 自掘墳墓啊 有觀眾才有$才有比賽
07/06 15:21, 1F

07/06 15:22, , 2F
翻譯給推
07/06 15:22, 2F

07/06 15:23, , 3F
確實是有點施鹽 不過應該是無心講出來的
07/06 15:23, 3F

07/06 15:23, , 4F
想看有沒有影片
07/06 15:23, 4F
※ 編輯: kuonet (76.167.141.11), 07/06/2015 15:25:43

07/06 15:27, , 5F
reckful本來就是爛人一個,不知為何找他主持
07/06 15:27, 5F

07/06 15:28, , 6F
台灣就有一個賣嘴砲換收視率的阿,雖然好像沒在打爐
07/06 15:28, 6F

07/06 15:28, , 7F
說到底還是觀眾推這種咖出來的,相信覺得他沒錯的
07/06 15:28, 7F

07/06 15:28, , 8F
不在少數
07/06 15:28, 8F

07/06 15:29, , 9F
在自己台想要啥風格是個人自由,但在外面公開正式場
07/06 15:29, 9F

07/06 15:30, , 10F
合是另一回事 之前桶神上TeSL打爐石表演賽也是安份
07/06 15:30, 10F

07/06 15:31, , 11F
推翻譯 辛苦了
07/06 15:31, 11F

07/06 15:32, , 12F
在自己的台還好,如果去別的地方還這樣就是不長眼。
07/06 15:32, 12F

07/06 15:33, , 13F
台主與他的台主忠實觀眾都一樣。
07/06 15:33, 13F

07/06 15:33, , 14F
統神上麥卡貝也不是他實況中的樣子吧?! (只看過一次
07/06 15:33, 14F

07/06 15:34, , 15F
看LUB5566這種回應就知道無法期待所有觀眾都會思考
07/06 15:34, 15F

07/06 15:36, , 16F
還行啦 至少這篇回應了觀眾的各種可能護航詞
07/06 15:36, 16F

07/06 15:41, , 17F
銅易 有人就是分出不場合該講甚麼
07/06 15:41, 17F

07/06 15:46, , 18F
LUB5566不遺餘力的表現出要黑人是不分場合的
07/06 15:46, 18F

07/06 15:46, , 19F

07/06 15:47, , 20F
Ostkaka VS. Eloiso這一場?
07/06 15:47, 20F

07/06 15:49, , 21F
就像癢哥永遠登不了大比賽舞台一樣 實況歸實況
07/06 15:49, 21F

07/06 15:50, , 22F
要播比賽最終還是要回歸專業 Reckful的表現擺明就是
07/06 15:50, 22F

07/06 15:50, , 23F
毫無準備就來播比賽 當成自己實況在搞 當然out
07/06 15:50, 23F

07/06 15:56, , 24F
別逗了 登不了大舞台?先看自己請不請得起
07/06 15:56, 24F

07/06 15:57, , 25F
從tesl到現在LPL轉播多少轉播單位想請癢哥
07/06 15:57, 25F

07/06 15:57, , 26F
Reckful 真的沒辦法玩 wow 了嗎 QQ
07/06 15:57, 26F

07/06 15:59, , 27F
wyner是幻想還是有實質內容呀?
07/06 15:59, 27F

07/06 16:00, , 28F
到哪都會看到癢黑癢粉說相聲超煩
07/06 16:00, 28F

07/06 16:03, , 29F
之前癢播報爽約跟現在台灣誰轉播LPL 幻想勒
07/06 16:03, 29F

07/06 16:08, , 30F
重組轉化師:你可能會覺得癢癢的
07/06 16:08, 30F

07/06 16:10, , 31F
競技場看到癢癢的通常都會抓一張 很夯
07/06 16:10, 31F

07/06 16:15, , 32F
我是說667
07/06 16:15, 32F

07/06 16:31, , 33F
lxtli 台灣轉播LPL的主播的確是聘請了癢哥
07/06 16:31, 33F

07/06 16:32, , 34F

07/06 16:53, , 35F
某些粉絲真好釣,什麼餌都吃XD,Reckful的舞台不是
07/06 16:53, 35F

07/06 16:53, , 36F
?XD
07/06 16:53, 36F

07/06 16:56, , 37F
反正嘴砲現在在台灣已經是文化,哥還是打打爐石就好
07/06 16:56, 37F

07/06 16:56, , 38F
的人喜歡肥宅當偶像崇拜,整天在那邊太神啦別說啦,
07/06 16:56, 38F

07/06 16:56, , 39F
的著XD
07/06 16:56, 39F

07/06 16:57, , 40F
謝翻譯
07/06 16:57, 40F

07/06 17:03, , 41F
癢來癢去的 鬧板滾 另外reckful嗆hafu給噓
07/06 17:03, 41F

07/06 17:45, , 42F
只能說當主播還是需要練習的
07/06 17:45, 42F

07/06 17:48, , 43F
猛 癢維拉到處救援
07/06 17:48, 43F

07/06 18:12, , 44F
young
07/06 18:12, 44F

07/06 18:17, , 45F
推forsen,最近都熬夜看他實況超好笑XD
07/06 18:17, 45F

07/06 18:31, , 46F
那個轉播都不歡而散了還在癢哥
07/06 18:31, 46F

07/06 20:19, , 47F
癢就是個被腦粉捧起來的咖而已 有啥好挺
07/06 20:19, 47F

07/06 20:28, , 48F
那一句hearse的,我認為改成:不爽不要看 是實況轉
07/06 20:28, 48F

07/06 20:28, , 49F
播的喪鐘 比較貼切
07/06 20:28, 49F

07/06 20:42, , 50F
綠色字:我們從不應該為了"播報品質"或"喜好"犧牲
07/06 20:42, 50F

07/06 20:42, , 51F
並傷害到"專業度"(註:這裡的播報品質跟喜好應該是
07/06 20:42, 51F

07/06 20:42, , 52F
指Rektful跟他的觀眾自己的喜好)
07/06 20:42, 52F

07/06 20:45, , 53F
癢黑崩潰到這來?
07/06 20:45, 53F

07/06 20:57, , 54F
那天我沒特別注意到rape只覺得reckful講超爛
07/06 20:57, 54F

07/06 20:57, , 55F
能跟fordan完全配不起來說真的很不簡單
07/06 20:57, 55F

07/06 20:58, , 56F
你丟一個英文流利的鄉民上去講都比那天reckful好
07/06 20:58, 56F

07/06 20:59, , 57F
先不說他認不認識選手了他就只會一直批評選手選擇
07/06 20:59, 57F

07/06 21:09, , 58F
reckful很慘 wow帳號也被封鎖
07/06 21:09, 58F

07/06 21:10, , 59F
還在實況講自己3p的事
07/06 21:10, 59F

07/06 21:11, , 60F
他好像有某一種自閉症
07/06 21:11, 60F

07/06 21:29, , 61F
他wow那個是活該 共用帳號在那邊實況
07/06 21:29, 61F

07/07 08:54, , 62F
癢都開節目爽賺了LUB5566還在崩潰
07/07 08:54, 62F

07/07 10:57, , 63F
推翻譯
07/07 10:57, 63F

07/07 12:09, , 64F
超級蹦蛙很少在節目上講不能說的字眼吧
07/07 12:09, 64F

07/08 01:20, , 65F
推翻譯
07/08 01:20, 65F

07/08 09:27, , 66F
他連那天轉播直接說回frodan他沒在聽他講啥 我還以
07/08 09:27, 66F

07/08 09:27, , 67F
為是做效果
07/08 09:27, 67F

, , 68F
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文章代碼(AID): #1LcYjS2Z (Hearthstone)