[討論] 經濟學人認定學生佔領議會為反民主

看板HatePolitics作者 ( .__________.)時間10年前 (2014/03/28 11:35), 編輯推噓66(660144)
留言210則, 46人參與, 最新討論串1/1
http://tinyurl.com/l9dy6ph On the antlers of a dilemma ...Students occupying parliament have resorted to undemocratic means, and many of the arguments they and the DPP make about the trade agreement are specious.... ...學生佔領議會是反民主的,而且學生和民進黨關於貿易協議的訴求 都是刻意誤導... 其他部分大概就是在描述大腸花的形成背景。主要是認為馬的親中政策讓 某些人產生疑慮。才會在台灣產生迴響。至於對帶頭人的評價,人家已經 講得很清楚囉。(攤手 整篇裡面除了這段都沒有價值判斷,負面意見也是引用DPP的發言。這些人 真的可以洗洗睡了。 =================== 全文 THE fresh-faced good looks have been lined and drawn by the cares of office. His immaculate English is forsaken for the dignity of immaculate Mandarin. Patient replies to questions come wearily, as if said many times before. Yet, six years into his presidency, Ma Ying-jeou’s hair remains as lush and jet-black as any Chinese Politburo member’s. And, speaking in the presidential palace in Taipei, he remains as unwilling as any leader in Beijing to admit to any fundamental flaws in strategy. Perhaps Mr Ma draws inspiration from his portrait of Sun Yat-sen, founder of his ruling party, the Kuomintang (KMT), and, in 1912, of the Republic of China to which Taiwan’s government still owes its name. Sun is revered as a nationalist hero not just by the KMT but, across the Taiwan Strait, by the Chinese Communist Party too. Mr Ma may also hope to be feted on both sides of the strait— in his case as a leader responsible for a historic rapprochement. For now, however, reconciliation between Taiwan and China remains distant. And Mr Ma, once the KMT’s most popular politician, is taunted by opponents as the “9% president”, a reference to his approval ratings in opinion polls last autumn. Economic integration Improving relations with China has been the central theme of his administration, after the tensions of eight years of rule by the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP), which leans towards declaring formal independence from the mainland. Mr Ma can boast of 21 agreements signed with China. He reels off the numbers of two fast-integrating economies: a tenfold increase in six years in mainland tourists to Taiwan, to 2.85m in 2013; cross-strait flights from none at all to 118 every day; two-way trade, including with Hong Kong, up to $160 billion a year. China’s strategy to reabsorb Taiwan is plain. As the island’s economy becomes more intertwined with that of the vast mainland, China thinks, resistance to unification will wane. Then Taiwan becomes an “autonomous” part of China—like Hong Kong, though allowed its own army. Taiwan will return to the motherland without resort to the missiles and increasingly powerful armed forces ranged against it. But as Mr Ma sees it, cross-strait “ rapprochement” is a first line of defence against Chinese aggression, since “a unilateral move by the mainland to change the status quo by non-peaceful means would come at a dear price”. Politics in Taiwan is framed as a debate about independence or unification but is really about preserving the status quo. The next step in rapprochement with China would be a meeting between political leaders. In February in Nanjing, once the capital of a KMT government of all China, ministers from China and Taiwan held their first formal meeting since 1949. Mr Ma hoped to meet China’s president, Xi Jinping, in Beijing this November, at the Asia-Pacific Economic Co-operation (APEC) summit. To accommodate Hong Kong and Taiwan, APEC’s members are not “ countries” but “economies”. So Mr Xi and Mr Ma could meet as “ economic leaders”, sidestepping the tricky protocol that usually dogs relations, with China viewing Taiwan as a mere province. The Chinese demurred. But Mr Ma thinks a meeting somewhere is “not outside the realm of possibility”. This backdrop explains why a protest movement against a services-trade agreement with the mainland is more than a little local difficulty for Mr Ma. Students occupying parliament have resorted to undemocratic means, and many of the arguments they and the DPP make about the trade agreement are specious. But they have tapped a vein of popular mistrust of Mr Ma and of economic integration with the mainland. A split persists between native Taiwanese, on the island for generations, and mainlanders, like Mr Ma, whose families came over as the KMT lost the civil war in the 1940s. Protesters portray Mr Ma as either a mainland stooge or as clueless and out of touch. In the occupied parliament, student caricatures give him antlers, a reference to a slip he once made when he appeared to suggest that the deer-antlers used in Chinese medicine were in fact hair from the animal’s ears. Mr Ma says public opinion supports a “Ma-Xi” summit. Joseph Wu of the DPP, however, claims such a meeting would actually damage the KMT in the next presidential election, due in 2016; rather, he says, Mr Ma is trying to leave a personal legacy. The DPP’s lead in the polls alarms not just the Chinese government but also America, which could do without another flare-up in a dangerous region. The stronger China grows, the more Taiwan’s security depends on commitments from America. It switched diplomatic recognition to Beijing in 1979, but Congress then passed a law obliging it to help Taiwan defend itself. All political lives end… Mr Ma says relations with America are better than they have ever been at least since 1979 and perhaps before. Others are doubtful. In all the talk of America’s “pivot” to Asia, its promises to Taiwan are rarely mentioned. Many in Taiwan paid attention when John Mearsheimer, an American academic, suggested in the National Interest, a policy journal, that there is “a reasonable chance American policymakers will eventually conclude that it makes good strategic sense to abandon Taiwan and to allow China to coerce it into accepting unification.” For some, abandonment is a fact of life and unification a matter of time. “No one is on our side strategically, diplomatically, politically; we have to count on China’s goodwill,” an academic in Taipei argues. Mr Ma has tried to steer what seems a sensible middle course between such defeatism and the adventurism of those in the DPP who would like to confront and challenge China. But he sounds weary with the effort, and Taiwan’s people seem weary of him. Their pragmatism and the DPP’s internecine strife may yet see them elect another KMT president in 2016. But if Mr Ma hoped to leave office with cross-strait relations stabilised, and with his own role as an historic peacemaker recognised on both sides and around the world, he seems likely to be disappointed. -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 211.76.175.170 ※ 文章網址: http://www.ptt.cc/bbs/HatePolitics/M.1395977711.A.D7F.html ※ 編輯: puec2 來自: 211.76.175.170 (03/28 11:36)

03/28 11:36, , 1F
吱:經濟學人統媒不可信
03/28 11:36, 1F

03/28 11:36, , 2F
馬幫伯出處欸 不能提了 統媒還是黨工阿
03/28 11:36, 2F

03/28 11:36, , 3F
speciou翻成華而不實比較有味道啊…呵呵
03/28 11:36, 3F

03/28 11:36, , 4F
吱吱:經濟學仁是統沒 黨工 開始肉搜
03/28 11:36, 4F

03/28 11:36, , 5F
specious
03/28 11:36, 5F

03/28 11:36, , 6F
吱:經濟學人是中共同路人,不可信
03/28 11:36, 6F

03/28 11:37, , 7F
(大笑)
03/28 11:37, 7F
※ 編輯: puec2 來自: 211.76.175.170 (03/28 11:39)

03/28 11:40, , 8F
經濟學人下去領500
03/28 11:40, 8F

03/28 11:41, , 9F
BBC中文網為近社論也是差不多立場 只是再補充現在民調
03/28 11:41, 9F

03/28 11:41, , 10F
很差的馬英九繼續讓這件事發酵對他執政更不利
03/28 11:41, 10F

03/28 11:41, , 11F
經濟學人被國民黨收買了
03/28 11:41, 11F

03/28 11:41, , 12F
可是八卦版現在還有一篇經濟學人鹿茸文欸
03/28 11:41, 12F

03/28 11:42, , 13F
就是同一篇啊。
03/28 11:42, 13F

03/28 11:42, , 14F
puec2能不能貼全文? 我已經達到economist一週三次上限,沒辦
03/28 11:42, 14F

03/28 11:42, , 15F
法看..Orz
03/28 11:42, 15F

03/28 11:42, , 16F
原文就好
03/28 11:42, 16F
※ 編輯: puec2 來自: 211.76.175.170 (03/28 11:44) ※ 編輯: puec2 來自: 211.76.175.170 (03/28 11:45)

03/28 11:45, , 17F
感激!
03/28 11:45, 17F
※ 編輯: puec2 來自: 211.76.175.170 (03/28 11:47)

03/28 11:46, , 18F
http://ppt.cc/apq5 原文連結
03/28 11:46, 18F

03/28 11:46, , 19F
怒肉蒐經濟學人
03/28 11:46, 19F

03/28 11:46, , 20F
現在在八卦板是一文各表 他們說經濟學人支持學生
03/28 11:46, 20F

03/28 11:47, , 21F
(但明明以往都是說經濟學人是大陸打手的捏......)
03/28 11:47, 21F

03/28 11:47, , 22F
英國美國的民主素養比不上我們台灣人
03/28 11:47, 22F

03/28 11:48, , 23F
人民佔領立院是主流民意
03/28 11:48, 23F

03/28 11:48, , 24F
經濟學生講得很清楚啦,這就是反中。
03/28 11:48, 24F

03/28 11:48, , 25F
通篇就是冷嘲熱諷啊 在嘲諷我們的總統跟學運的不切實際
03/28 11:48, 25F

03/28 11:48, , 26F
肉蒐經濟學人XD
03/28 11:48, 26F

03/28 11:48, , 27F
連聯合中時,都不敢說佔立院不民主了
03/28 11:48, 27F

03/28 11:50, , 28F
幫人肉
03/28 11:50, 28F

03/28 11:52, , 29F
水啦!
03/28 11:52, 29F

03/28 11:53, , 30F
馬幫博國際認證!(咦?
03/28 11:53, 30F

03/28 11:59, , 31F
經濟學人又黑了 問題是前面那篇講馬幫博的其實也是隱喻暗諷
03/28 11:59, 31F

03/28 12:02, , 32F
暗諷沒關係,我比較在意的是外國主流媒體怎樣看待主事的
03/28 12:02, 32F

03/28 12:02, , 33F
學生。
03/28 12:02, 33F

03/28 12:02, , 34F
其實我們很少看到外媒用"反民主"去批評抗議活動..
03/28 12:02, 34F

03/28 12:03, , 35F
PPP超越日英(+1) 學生反民主(+1) 馬幫博(-1) 總分大於1
03/28 12:03, 35F

03/28 12:03, , 36F
就是黨工無誤
03/28 12:03, 36F
還有 134 則推文
還有 12 段內文
03/28 13:11, , 171F
整段只看得懂but, 還可以討論得這麼開心…
03/28 13:11, 171F

03/28 13:12, , 172F
討論英文又扯上KMT 這次不跳針改成放大絕?
03/28 13:12, 172F

03/28 13:12, , 173F
請那個抓到but就高潮的回來繼續講
03/28 13:12, 173F

03/28 13:13, , 174F
可能在複習形容詞子句跟轉折語氣
03/28 13:13, 174F

03/28 13:13, , 175F
那些說別人英文不好的來指正啊 怕你不敢
03/28 13:13, 175F

03/28 13:14, , 176F
英文老師大概都去立院外靜坐了 難怪要到政黑板討教
03/28 13:14, 176F

03/28 13:16, , 177F
說別人英文差結果一個屁野放不出來
03/28 13:16, 177F

03/28 13:16, , 178F
他們英文大概只懂三個單字 1.K 2.M 3.T
03/28 13:16, 178F

03/28 13:23, , 179F
這大概就是有知識有學問的學生和林飛帆所要的「光榮」
03/28 13:23, 179F

03/28 13:25, , 180F
還有姚立民、教授一票知識份子所要的「光榮的公民不服從」
03/28 13:25, 180F

03/28 13:35, , 181F
Merriam Webster關於specious的解釋falsely appearing to be
03/28 13:35, 181F

03/28 13:36, , 182F
fair, just, or right; appearing to be true but actually
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03/28 13:36, , 183F
false
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03/28 13:38, , 184F
OALD解釋比較精簡:seeming right or true but actually
03/28 13:38, 184F

03/28 13:39, , 185F
wrong or false
03/28 13:39, 185F

03/28 13:41, , 186F
基本上這篇文章重點不在那段...是在馬英九面臨的兩難
03/28 13:41, 186F

03/28 13:42, , 187F
那一段是台灣目前價值觀爭議的重點
03/28 13:42, 187F

03/28 13:43, , 188F
現在是有人不承認自己反中 柯柯
03/28 13:43, 188F

03/28 13:43, , 189F
抓到了,經濟學人是統沒
03/28 13:43, 189F

03/28 13:43, , 190F
反中不是問題,問題在佔立法院重傷民主
03/28 13:43, 190F

03/28 13:44, , 191F
人家說自己是被逼得XD
03/28 13:44, 191F

03/28 13:45, , 192F
是啊 你要反中反美反日關我屁事 憑什麼佔我的立法院?
03/28 13:45, 192F

03/28 13:49, , 193F
閒聊一鑑,un-算是not,a或anti才是agaist,undemocratic我
03/28 13:49, 193F

03/28 13:49, , 194F
因為說自己反中就沒正當性了 當然死不承認
03/28 13:49, 194F

03/28 13:49, , 195F
會翻成非民主手段
03/28 13:49, 195F

03/28 13:50, , 196F
沒仔細去查,印象中是這樣
03/28 13:50, 196F

03/28 13:50, , 197F
非民主手段太嗷口了。英文有很多東西其實你要全翻的話,就
03/28 13:50, 197F

03/28 13:50, , 198F
不像中文了。
03/28 13:50, 198F

03/28 14:12, , 199F
specious = 似是而非
03/28 14:12, 199F

03/28 14:16, , 200F
似是而非,這詞好
03/28 14:16, 200F

03/28 14:19, , 201F
好像在跟你談服貿其實並不完全是<<<這樣?
03/28 14:19, 201F

03/28 14:27, , 202F
許多學生與DPP針對貿易協議提出的訴求都是似是而非的
03/28 14:27, 202F

03/28 14:28, , 203F
經濟學人撰稿者八成不懂學生在抗爭甚麼
03/28 14:28, 203F

03/28 14:28, , 204F
因為程序、法律都與經濟無關,他寫進去也沒意義
03/28 14:28, 204F

03/28 14:29, , 205F
而且這次抗爭的確跟服貿的經濟內容毫無關係
03/28 14:29, 205F

03/28 14:30, , 206F
講不過就說經濟學人不懂 當初BUMBLER怎不這麼說呢XD
03/28 14:30, 206F

03/28 14:30, , 207F
是雞排那位T大嗎?
03/28 14:30, 207F

03/28 14:31, , 208F
跟經濟內容毫無關係? 你確定嗎XD
03/28 14:31, 208F

03/28 14:38, , 209F
唉呀,政黑要多了個雞排哥了這下...
03/28 14:38, 209F

03/28 15:58, , 210F
經濟學人一直婊馬啊
03/28 15:58, 210F
文章代碼(AID): #1JDEtlr_ (HatePolitics)