『口述傳統』和『文字傳統』的迷思 3

看板Christianity作者df31 (DF-31)時間7年前 (2017/04/02 23:10)推噓9(9推 0噓 70→)

留言79則, 5人參與討論串1/1

以下是公佈在網絡上，亞流最重要的著作——《宴席/Thalia》的中文翻譯。因為L大回答我的問題：『不知道『貴會』認上述古聖先賢中的幾個為權威？另，在神論、基督論、聖靈論、救贖論、教會論、末世論方面，貴會對上述古聖先賢的評價為何？』的時候說：『何謂口傳，就是文字書捲無法完整詮釋的內容，甚至也包含對文傳的詮釋。。。他們的常識不建德是我們的常識，所以活的聖傳統的發掘當然有它的必要。』很明顯的，L大並不認可大公教會公認的『文字傳統』，認為他所謂『東方教會』有特殊的，優於西方教會的『口述傳統』；甚至，東方教會的『口述傳統』凌駕於大公教會公認的『文字傳統』。在此，我想請教幾個問題： 1- 亞流的錯誤為何？ 2- 您所謂『東方教會』是根據什麼判定的？希望您不要再像上貼打太極。我在請教你問題的時候，可是『非常認真+努力+仔細』的引經據典，期盼您能夠以『同等的』態度回應之！當然，如果您『不了解』我在問什麼，可以請您的『神甫』幫忙！當然，希望您不要再以『不是希臘文』推脫。都已經是『美籍』了，老美的英文翻譯符合不符合希臘文，您應當清楚。謝謝您寶貴的時間和精力！ ---------------------------------- …And so God Himself, as he really is, is inexpressible to all. 神本身的本质是完全无法表达的。 He alone has no equal, no one similar (homoios), and no one of the same glory. 祂是独一无二的，无人无物与其相似（similar-homoios），人无法拥有祂的荣耀。 We call him unbegotten, in contrast to him who by nature is begotten. 我们称祂为非受生的（unbegotten），好与那位本质是被生的（begotten）相对。 We praise him as without beginning in contrast to him who has a beginning. 我们称祂为无始的（without beginning），好与那位有开始的（has a beginning）相对。 We worship him as timeless, in contrast to him who in time has come to exist. 我们敬拜祂是不受时间限制的（timeless），好与那位在时间中而有的相对。 He who is without beginning made the Son a beginning of created things. 那位无始的把子造为所有被造之物的开始。 He produced him as a son for himself by begetting him. 祂乃是借着生，把祂产生为自己的儿子。 He [the son] has none of the distinct characteristics of God’s own being (kat ’ hypostasis) 祂（子）完全没有神的所是的那些特有的特征。 For he is not equal to, nor is he of the same being (homoousios) as him.因为祂（子）是不同的，也与祂（父）不同质。 God is wise, for he himself is the teacher of Wisdom – 神是智慧的，因为祂自己是智慧的导师 -- Sufficient proof that God is invisible to all: 明显的，神是不为万物所能能见的： He is invisible both to things which were made through the Son, and also to the Son himself. 对于经由子造的万物和子自己，祂都是不可见的。 I will say specifically how the invisible is seen by the Son: 我要特别解释，不可见的如何被子所看见： by that power by which God is able to see, each according to his own measure, 乃是借由神看见的能力，根据各人不同的度量， the Son can bear to see the Father, as is determined 叫子能够看见父，如同这是已经命定的。 So there is a Triad, not in equal glories. 所以，有一个在不同荣耀里的三位（Triad）。 Their beings (hypostaseis) are not mixed together among themselves. 祂们的位格（hypostaseis）彼此不相混合。 As far as their glories, one infinitely more glorious than the other. 关于祂们的荣耀，这位（父）的荣耀是无限的大于另一位（子）。 The Father in his essence (ousia) is a foreigner to the Son, because he exists without beginning. 父的本质与子不同，因为祂的存有是无始的。 Understand that the Monad [eternally] was; but the Dyad was not before it came into existence. 我们认识祂是（永远）独一的一位（Monad）；第二位（Dyad）在有之前是不存在的。 It immediately follows that, although the Son did not exist, the Father was still God. 必然的结果就是，虽然子不存在，父仍然是神。 Hence the Son, not being [eternal] came into existence by the Father’s will, 所以，子不是在永恒中，借由父的旨意而有的， He is the Only-begotten God, and this one is alien from [all] others 祂是独生的神（Only-begotten God），与其祂的被造之物不同。 [Williams suggests a section on the Holy Spirit may have been omitted here (p. 310).] [William认为在此有一段关于圣灵的段落被省略了。] Wisdom came to be Wisdom by the will of the Wise God. 智慧（译者：道的另一个称呼）乃是借由智慧的神的旨意成为智慧的。 Hence he is conceived in innumerable aspects. He is Spirit, 所以，在各面中，祂被认定是灵。 Power, Wisdom, God’s glory, Truth, Image, and Word. 能力，智慧，神的荣耀，真理，像，和道。 Understand that he is also conceived of as Radiance and Light. （我们）了解祂也被认为是光辉和光。 The one who is superior is able to beget one equal to the Son, 那位更超越的（父）能够生出一个与子（Son，基督）一样的， But not someone more important, or superior, or greater. 但不是另一位更重要，或更超越，或更伟大的。 At God’s will the Son has the greatness and qualities that he has. 因着神的旨意，子拥有了祂所有的伟大和特质。 His existence from when and from whom and from then — are all from God. 祂的存有都是从神来的。 He, though strong God, praises in part (ek merous) his superior . 祂，虽然是一位强壮的神（strong God，译者：因有神来的能力而成为强壮），但只在祂的部分的超越中赞美（父）。 In brief, God is inexpressible to the Son. 简单的说，子无法描述神。 For he is in himself what he is, that is, indescribable, 因为祂（父）就是那位在祂自己里面的那位，接就是无法形容的。 So that the son does not comprehend any of these things or have the understanding to explain them. 所以子完全无法理解这些事情，或能够解释它们。 For it is impossible for him to fathom the Father, who is by himself. 因为祂（子）无法了解那位由祂（父）而来的父。 For the Son himself does not even know his own essence (ousia), 因为子连祂自己的本质（ousia）都不了解， For being Son, his existence is most certainly at the will of the Father. 作为子，祂的存在更像是从父的旨意而来的。 What reasoning allows, that he who is from the Father should comprehend and know his own parent? 什么能够解释，那位从父而来的祂能够了解并认识祂自己的父亲？ For clearly that which has a beginning is not able to conceive of or grasp the existence of that which has no beginning. 很明显的，那位有开始的无法了解那位无始的存有。 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 49.214.49.30 ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Christianity/M.1491145828.A.357.html

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