Fw: [翻譯] Lifecoach 近期受訪談爐石與昆特已回收

看板C_Chat作者ss8901233 (不聽不聽你別說)時間6年前 (2017/09/28 13:01)推噓9(9推 0噓 6→)

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※ [本文轉錄自 Hearthstone 看板 #1Pp7qKLe ] 作者: rextremistz (Rextremistz) 看板: Hearthstone 標題: [翻譯] Lifecoach 近期受訪談爐石與昆特時間: Thu Sep 28 12:39:40 2017 Roapcoach 離開爐石也好一陣子了，近期他在昆特牌中大放異彩，最近接受訪問又再度被問到當初為何要離開爐石。雖然原因不外乎之前說的 RNG 太重，競技性不足，拜訪暴雪後沒採納他的建議等等。但每次看他比較兩款遊戲還是覺得挺有趣，看到他如此讚揚昆特抨擊爐石都讓人也想跳槽了。感覺得出來很多人對於爐石真的是滿滿的唏噓，希望它好卻又束手無策，但也所幸昆特牌的出現讓電競圈子繼續留住 Lifecoach 這樣的卡牌大師。 -- 原文: https://goo.gl/PPB7jP Dear Lifecoach: How come you left Hearthstone for Gwent? “Dear XXX” is the first in many interviews to come, where we have an in-depth talk with an important esports figure, the first being one of the most successful Hearthstone and Gwent players to date: Lifecoach. After this year’s gamescom we had the chance to sit down with him, to talk about his thoughts on CD Projekt Red, Blizzard and why he has made the decision to switch over to Gwent. 親愛的 Lifecoach: 你為什麼離開爐石去巫師之昆特牌了? 這次的 "Dear XXX" 將會是日後許多訪問的首例，我們會深入討論一個指標性的電競人物。今天要訪問的是一位非常成功的爐石和昆特牌玩家: Lifecoach 今年 gamescom 結束後，我們有幸能和他聊聊 CD Projekt Red(昆特牌開發商)、暴雪，還有為什麼他跳去玩昆特牌了。 -- TheShotCaller(TSC): Hi Lifecoach, thank you very much for your time! How has your time been playing with the new patch so far? Lifecoach 你好，謝謝你的參與，到目前還享受新版本的遊戲嗎? Lifecoach(LC): It’s a good thing to see them keeping up with what the community wants, to see and reevaluate things that might not be good for the game. They seemingly try to balance out the factions a lot more now. The only thing that I don’t like, which might be due to personal preference, is that they’re changing the meaning of the cards a lot. I think all of the factions and cards should get some flavour, a definitive way they feel. I try to view every card as a separate entity, as a character, so when they completely change the way a card works, that disrupts the way I feel about a card. As an example, John Natalis originally used to command his machines, but now he does something very different. So I have to imagine how he took up a second job or something. (laughs) The most important thing is though that CD Projekt Red shows that they’re dedicated to the game and the community which I think they’ve shown recently. 能看到開發者跟得上社群希望看見的東西，重新評估一些劣化遊戲的弊病，是一件很好的事。他們致力於優化陣營之間的平衡。惟獨把卡片內容大改讓我不太喜歡，但也許只是個人偏好。我認為所有陣營和卡片都應該有別具一格的決定性特色。我試著將每張卡片看做獨特的身分，角色，所以當開發者徹底改變卡片的功效，會打壞我對一張卡的觀感。舉例來說，John Natalis 原本可以指揮他的機器，但現在他換成其他功用，所以我必須想像他換了工作還是甚麼的。(笑) 然而最重要的還是 CDPR 表現出他們非常投入在遊戲和社群，他們確實也有做到。 TSC: Gwent has been around for about a year now, you won the first big Gwent tournament back in May. Do you think that CDPR is heading in the right direction with Gwent as an esport title? Especially when compared to Hearthstone? 昆特牌已經一年了，你在五月贏了第一個大型昆特牌賽事。你認為開發商 CDPR 正在讓昆特牌成為電競重要賽事的正確道路上嗎? 尤其跟爐石相比? LC: Absolutely. They just announced a tournament tour that is worth a million dollars. Even though Gwent has about a tenth of the active player base of Hearthstone, they announce a tournament series that at least matches, if not excels the current official Hearthstone tournament tours. Due to this, CDPR enables Gwent to have the same amount of professional players as Hearthstone, despite having a much smaller player base. They definitely have a strong focus on the competitive scene. Let’s say there are about 5 million active Hearthstone players, which we can’t even determine properly because Blizzard is very intransparent with their numbers, by only disclosing how many registered accounts there are. CDPR, on the other hand, is completely open about their numbers: You have a Ranked ladder and you see exactly where you are, how many active players there are, no ifs and buts. Anyway, if we take this number of 5 million active Hearthstone players and consider the fact that there are about 50 professional players being able to live off the game, you have a ratio of having one professional player to 100,000 players. 絕對是的。他們才剛公佈了一個獎金池高達一百萬美元的賽事。儘管昆特牌只有爐石玩家十分之一，他們舉辦的賽事規模和獎金就算沒有超越爐石，也絕對有持平。基於此，CDPR 能讓昆特牌有著跟爐石一樣多的職業選手，儘管有著比較少的總玩家人數。他們非常重視這遊戲的電競要素。假設爐石有五百萬名玩家，我們根本無法從暴雪不透明的數字判斷其正確性，尤其當他們只公佈註冊帳號的人數。而 CDPR 這方面完全公開: 你可以從完整的天梯榜看見自己的位置，有多少活躍玩家，沒有模糊地帶。如果我們拿這爐石五百萬名玩家，和大約50名職業選手能仰賴爐石電競維生來做比較，你會得到一個1:100,000，職業與一般玩家的比例。 We saw something similar in the case of World of Warcraft, a game also played by dozens of millions of people. But there was practically no professional scene either. I got to meet the best WoW competitive players last year at Blizzcon –ironically they were Germans as well and recognized me. I expected them to be really popular and make a lot of money, given that they were competing in this huge game, but no. According to them, that really wasn’t the case, mostly because Blizzard didn’t enable the scene to grow in the way it could’ve. 我們在魔獸世界看到類似的情形，一個有著千萬玩家的熱門遊戲，卻根本沒有任何電競要素。我有幸去年在 Blizzcon 遇到 WoW 最厲害的玩家，他們諷刺地也是德國人且認得了我。原本預期他們應該很有名且賺了很多錢，畢竟他們是如此熱門遊戲的佼佼者，但結果卻不然。根據這些人的說法，他們並沒有因為是 WoW 頂尖玩家而聲名大噪毋論發財致富，主要原因是因為暴雪沒有讓遊戲的電競圈子發展到它本來可以有的水準。 In Gwent, however, I expect there to be at least 50, maybe 100 competitive players being able to live off the game as an esport. That’s a completely different ratio where one in 10,000 people can make it. If you want to go professional in Gwent, you have a realistic shot at doing so. Hearthstone, on the other hand, is keeping you hopeful with intransparent numbers and statistics. And the fact that you have to pay money for Hearthstone in order to keep competing is very questionable from an ethical point of view as well. 然而在昆特牌，我預期至少會有50甚至100名職業選手可以靠遊戲的電競賴以為生。這1:10,000的比例和爐石是全然不同的。如果你想當昆特牌的職業選手，你有著實質上的機會去拼搏。爐石的話則是會用不透明的數字統計讓你好像一直保持著希望。且必須花錢在爐石卡牌來持續競技是一件非常可議的事。 For example, you need to “invest” around 500-1000 Euros a year in order to be able to compete in Hearthstone, unless you spend a lot of time playing Arena, which is a waste of your time if you want to hone your skills in a competitive format. Then you have a lot of players and organizations going: "Okay, but we have a good shot at getting this money back because the RNG dictates that everyone will succeed eventually.” Which is why you see the top players at events change so frequently, because of the heavy RNG. But the thing is that due to this heavy rotation, the likelihood of actually making it is astronomical. Even a really ambitious player has a chance of one to 10,000 of making it. But to keep on chasing this dream, you have to pay 500-1000 Euros a year. 打個比方，你必須每年投資500~1000歐元才能在爐石戰場競技，除非你想花很多時間在打費時又難以磨練比賽技巧的競技場。接著你有很多選手和組織想著 "我們有很大的機會能讓投資回本，因為 RNG 吃重的程度能讓任何玩家都有機會成功。" 運氣成分的吃重也是賽事中的頂尖選手之所以會一直交替的原因。而這樣的頻繁交替反而會讓選手成功的機率更加艱困。就連一個非常有野心的玩家也只有十萬分之一的機會成功。 (原文是一萬，但根據前文應該是十萬) 然而為了持續追逐這個夢，你必須每年花500~1000歐元。 On the other hand, CDPRs philosophy is completely different. When I first switched over to Gwent it was because I liked the strategy and complexity of the game, sure. But the mentality behind the Free-2-Play-system is totally different as well. There are a lot of companies that want to maximize their investment by making the casual players pay and ignoring the competitive scene. CDPR, on the other hand, goes: We want to make a complex game and have a flourishing competitive scene which showcases our game design because you frequently see the same competitive players at tournaments, due to RNG being low and the game having a high skill ceiling. 另一方面，CDPR 概念完全不同。我一開始是因為喜歡昆特牌的策略性和複雜度跳槽。但這款免費遊戲背後公司的心態卻截然不同。許多公司會為了最大化投資收益而讓休閒玩家花錢並忽略遊戲的競技一環。 CDPR 卻想做一個複雜且有著興盛的競技內容的遊戲，這也反應在昆特牌的比賽中，大部分都是那幾位常見的選手，原因是因為遊戲的運氣成分較低，且有著很高的技術上限。 CD Projekt Red is probably the only company that hasn’t disappointed me so far, no, that have actually excelled my expectations. Realistically speaking you usually get disappointed in your expectations, because you try to think positive and expect the best result, in which case disappointment is imminent. But if you look at CDPR and the way that Gwent has gotten progressively better as a game over the course of a few months, I’m very impressed by them. CDPR 開發商可能是唯一還沒讓我失望的公司，他們甚至超越了我的期待。現實中很多事情會讓人失望，畢竟我們總是以正向的預期心理去設想最好的情形，正也因為如此，事後的失望感往往隨之而來。但如果你看 CDPR 還有昆特牌在幾個月內成長的幅度，你會非常敬佩他們。 TSC: A friend of mine recently started playing Gwent as well, and to my surprise, she has gotten quite a sizeable collection within a short period of time. Having played Hearthstone since Closed Beta and having recommended that game to several of my friends as well, it’s pretty safe to say that she wouldn’t have this kind of collection in Hearthstone so quickly. 我一個朋友最近開始玩昆特牌，讓我驚訝的是她短時間內就收集了相當程度的卡片。我同樣也從爐石封測的時候就推薦給很多人玩過，我能保守地說我朋友不會在爐石能有如此收集卡片的速度。 LC: For sure! You don’t need to pay anything to get all the cards in Gwent. Not as a casual player and especially not as a competitive player. You need to invest absolutely nothing, you get so many cards, kegs and scraps thrown at you for just playing the game, you’re essentially guaranteed that you don’t need to pay anything. It’s pretty nice. 沒錯! 你不需要在昆特牌支付任何金錢來收集所有的卡片，休閒玩家不用，更別說職業選手。你不需要任何投資，光是玩遊戲就能得到非常多的卡包(Keg)和合成素材(Scrap)，擔保你玩到後面都不需要付任何東西，挺不錯的。 TSC: I think you once calculated how long it takes you to collect cards in Hearthstone vs collecting cards in Gwent? 我記得你計算過爐石和昆特牌收集卡片需要的時間? LC: Yes, I know there are very complicated studies regarding this, but in my opinion, there’s a much easier way: You look at how much money you’d need to spend to get a full collection of cards, keeping pack/keg ratios in mind. Then you calculate how many hours you’d need to play in order to achieve that complete collection by calculating your “hourly wage” so to speak. In Hearthstone you’d need to spend around 1000 Euros to get a complete collection. In Gwent, you’d need about 600-700 Euros. So this is roughly the same and maybe one day you’ll need to spend 1000 Euros in Gwent as well to get a complete collection. But here comes the big difference: In Hearthstone, your hourly wage is basically 50-70 cents. So to get a complete Hearthstone collection you’d need to spend 1000-2000 hours playing a year. Therefore, you’d need to spend about three to six hours a day playing Hearthstone for a complete collection. In Gwent, your hourly wage is about three to four Euros. In order to get a complete collection, you’d need to play about 150 hours playing a year. Therefore, you’d need to spend less than half an hour a day playing Gwent to get a complete collection. 是的，我知道有很多複雜的研究在探討這個問題，但在我看來有個很簡單的方式: 那就是擁有全套卡片所需要花費的金錢，依照需要的爐石卡包和昆特卡包的比例，再來你計算需要花多少時間才能擁有全套卡片來換算成玩遊戲的「時薪」。在爐石你大概需要花大約1000歐元來收集到完整的套牌。昆特牌大約是600~700歐元。這基本上沒有差太多，且或許有一天你也需要花1000歐元在昆特牌來收集所有卡牌。但其中最大的差異在於: 爐石你平均每小時的時薪是50~70分。所以要完成爐石套牌你需要花費1000~2000小時，也就是每天玩爐石3~6個小時玩上整整一年才能完整收集。在昆特牌，你平均每小時時薪是3~4歐元。如果想一年內得到所有卡牌，你只需要每天花不到半小時就能完成。 This discrepancy between the two games is really huge in my opinion. CDPR goes “Hey, you keep playing our game and love it? Have some free stuff!” and meanwhile Blizzard goes “Hey, you keep playing our game and love it? Please pay us more money!”. This is why the competitive Hearthstone scene isn’t in a healthy state. And I don’t know the casual scene much, and maybe the casual players don’t want everyone to have an easy access to all the cards, so they can spend more money and brag about their cards. I don’t like that. But that’s why I chose a game where everyone who plays an hour can get all the cards, which I think is great. 兩款遊戲如此的差異甚大。 CDPR 會說:「你這麼喜歡玩我們的遊戲喔? 那送你點免費的東西吧!」而暴雪則說:「你這麼喜歡玩我們的遊戲喔? 那付點錢吧!」這就是為什麼爐石不在一個健康的遊戲生態中。我不知道休閒玩家的生態如何，或許休閒玩家不想讓大家太容易得到所有卡片，好讓他們可以花更多錢來炫耀自己的卡片。我不喜歡這樣。因此我選擇任何人都能快速收集卡片的遊戲，我認為這樣很棒。 TSC: Back when you decided to quit Hearthstone and switch over to Gwent eventually, you recently visited Team 5 at Blizzard, the team behind Hearthstone. I remember a lot of people in the Hearthstone community, including myself, to be very surprised by your decision, because that visit was viewed as the final chance to fix things between Blizzard and the competitive scene. The fact that you decided to quit right after speaking with the devs got a lot of the competitive scene nervous and thinking. What happened back then and why were they unable to convince you to stay with Hearthstone? 那時候你決定要從爐石跳槽到昆特牌，你拜訪了暴雪的 Team 5，也就是負責爐石的團隊。我記得很多爐石社群中的人，包括我，都很訝異你的決定，因為那次會面算是暴雪和電競圈子重修彼此關係的最後一次機會。而你在跟開發團隊聊了之後立刻退出爐石，讓許多電競圈裡面的人很緊張。那時候到底發生了甚麼事使得爐石團隊無法說服你留下呢? LC: Well, it comes down to what I mentioned earlier regarding expectations. My expectation going there was for them to fix the game on a competitive level, to make it so that Hearthstone could be taken seriously as an esport again. The game had been devolving so much from a competitive standpoint for about one-and-a-half years at that point. Every new expansion, every time they decided to nerf cards, every new release was done at the expense of the competitive scene. And not just by a little bit but by a great margin. We saw more RNG, less skill-heavy gameplay, barely anything was nerfed but when it was nerfed, the nerf happened because the card was too skill-heavy. What annoyed me was them continuously baiting us as well, by promising they’d listen to us and fix the game. If they would’ve been open about this and would’ve gone “Okay guys, we want to make a popular game and don’t care about the competitive scene, but if you do play our game, you’ll get a lot of viewers on Twitch”, then that would’ve been okay. Everyone would’ve known where they were at. I personally would’ve been able to quit a lot earlier then as well. Instead, they went “No guys, your competitive perspective on the game is important and we care about you”. So you keep your good will and keep on playing. Then more bad news and unhealthy cards come around, more of them and even more of them. Eventually, I just lost hope. 這要回到剛才說關於期待的問題。我去拜訪爐石團隊的期待，就是希望他們能讓遊戲重拾它的競技性，讓爐石的電競能被認真看待。這遊戲的競技性在那時候已經持續退化了一年半多了。每一次改版，每一次他們決定要 nerf 卡片，每一次推出的新東西，都透過犧牲遊戲的競技性促成。且不只一點點而是巨大的犧牲。我們看到了更多運氣成分，更少的技術操作，很少有東西被nerf，但只要nerf大部分都是因為卡片吃技術。讓我厭煩的是暴雪不斷誘使我們抱持著期待，說他們會聆聽玩家的心聲並改進遊戲。如果他們開宗明義地說: 「我們想讓遊戲大紅大紫不管電競有否，但如果你玩我們的遊戲，你會在 Twitch 有很多觀看人數」，那還好一點。大家都會知道他們想朝甚麼發展，而我個人更早就嘛可以離開了。反而，他們說:「你們對遊戲競技方面的觀點很重要，且我們很在乎你們」所以你會抱持信念繼續玩。而更糟的事情，更不健康的卡片一而再，再而三地問世，越來越多，越來越猖獗。最後，我失去希望了。 So from my perspective, there are three ways to fix a situation which you are unhappy with: Live with it Leave it Change it 從我的觀點，碰到不樂見的事情有三件事可以做: 忍受它離開它改變它 Over the course of my life, I learned that living with something that is bothering me just doesn’t work for me. So I have the other two options of either leaving or changing the thing that is bugging me. Because I have a good friend working at Blizzard I reached out to them and ended up visiting them in California. I got to see a few cards of the new expansion back then so I gave them my input on what I’d keep away or at least change. I only suggested two changes, even though there were more suggestions I should’ve made, and even those weren’t considered. Maybe the person in charge wanted to set an example, but I felt really disillusioned after that experience. It was obvious to me that I shouldn’t have any hope for the future of competitive HS. 人生中，我發現自己沒辦法忍受煩擾我的事。所以我有離開或者改變令我難受的事情兩種選擇。我有一些好朋友在暴雪工作，所以我聯絡了他們並去加州拜訪他們。我看到了新版本的幾張卡牌，並給了一些修改上的意見。我只有建議兩處修改，即便我應該提更多意見，但就連那兩件也沒被考慮採納。也許遊戲團隊負責人想樹立一個榜樣，但我在那之後感到非常絕望。很明顯我不該抱有對未來的競技爐石任何希望。 Then the first big Gwent tournament came around, which I was invited to by CDPR as a potential competitor. I was a bit surprised to see that they had offered a 100k $ prize pool, given that the game wasn’t made by an AAA-studio and still in Closed Beta. So I decided to play it for a day, play it for another one and on the third day I was completely hooked. It has such nice strategic depth. The thing is that almost every card game utilizes curve and snowball, meaning you can very easily get snowballed to death. So when you can’t compensate your skill with a bit of luck when it comes to snowballing successfully, you’re going to have a bad time. That’s not something you have in Gwent. When you’re playing extremely well, even against good players, you can win 90% of your games. Luck exists in Gwent, but there are so many factors that limit this factor heavily. The fact that you draw 10 cards at the start of the game, that you mulligan so many cards and at the beginning of each round, and the game itself, where you can always optimize your plays for a few points more. 接著第一個昆特牌大賽來到，我被 CDPR 邀請當個潛在的競技玩家。我有點訝異比賽有著$100,000的獎金池，即便遊戲不是由一個大廠開發且還在封測階段。我決定玩玩看它，兩三天之後我徹底被吸引住了。它有著高深的技巧性。大部分的卡牌遊戲講求曲線和雪球，意思是你很容易被雪球滾到死。所以當你沒辦法用運氣來彌補一點技巧上的不足而被滾到雪球時，你會很慘。那在昆特牌不會發生。當你玩得非常好的時候，即便對上不錯的玩家，你還是能有90%的勝率。昆特中存在著運氣，但有太多要素限制了運氣佔的比重。一開始能抽10張牌，在起手換牌階段能有這麼多選擇，再來每一輪一開始又能再度換牌，還有遊戲本身，都能讓你可以調整每回合的出牌。 TSC: Is there anything you’d like to tell the Gwent community and what more can we expect from you in the future? 有沒有你想告訴昆特社群的，還有未來能期待你甚麼呢? LC: I’m just really excited for the future. The fact that CDPR went with the Multi-faction ladder system, that we worked on together, which is very nice to see. Usually, there are two factions that are a lot stronger than the others, so all you see on the ladder would be those two factions. For example, if Monster and Skellige are really strong, you’d only play Monster vs Skellige, Monster vs Monster, Skellige vs Monster and Skellige vs Skellige. But now with competitors having to play at least four factions, the number of matchups increases to 16, 25 even. I’m just not getting tired of the game and I hope no one else is either. 我對未來非常期待。CDPR 選擇了多陣營天梯系統是很棒的事。通常會有兩個陣營強過其他陣營，所以天梯中你看到的都是這兩個陣營。譬如如果 Monster 和 Skellige 陣營都很強，那就只會有這兩個陣營組合的對戰。但現在玩家必須至少玩四個陣營，對戰組合增加到了16甚至25種。這遊戲我一直玩不膩，希望其他人也是。 TSC: Thank you very much for your time! 謝謝你的時間。 -- 大家好我是 Rextremistz，喜好翻譯有趣的各領域影片跟文章，若有人感興趣之內容想要翻譯，不吝站內信。 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 36.231.109.178 ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Hearthstone/M.1506573588.A.568.html

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